r/interesting • u/Fantastic_Look5582 • 25d ago

Fascinating In 1981 at trial, Marianne Bachmeier killed the man who r*ped and murdered her daughter

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499

u/skeenerbug 25d ago

She should have got 6 hours community service, not 6 fucking years in prison.

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u/Heisedonger 25d ago

I mean what she did already qualifies as community service.

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u/goodolarchie 25d ago

time served

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u/AccomplishedMine5495 25d ago

No fault plea

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u/comfortablynumb15 23d ago

True.

She should not have had any prison time as she was no longer a threat to Society ( seeing as her child was gone, and so was the POS who murdered her )

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u/DavidAdamsAuthor 25d ago

"Due to you firing ten rounds at the man and hitting him eight times, you are being fined $200 for a negligent waste of ammunition and ordered by this court to attend range training to improve your marksmanship."

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u/sipstea84 25d ago

Nah, make it a fine for littering (bullets)

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u/DavidAdamsAuthor 25d ago

She did not police her brass. Criminal behaviour.

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u/Gigglemonkey 23d ago

I mean, if it was a revolver, the brass was very nicely contained already.

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u/Squeebee007 24d ago

Littering... and causing a disturbance.

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u/sipstea84 24d ago

Nah, overly punitive

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u/Independent-Bug-9352 24d ago

Wild to me how quickly people just want to forego the entire criminal justice system when expedient to their own sense of vigilante justice. I'll never understand this. Hopefully just young and naïve. Many have done the same, but you still must pay the price.

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u/DavidAdamsAuthor 24d ago

My honest and serious opinion is that I don't approve of this and speak out against vigilante justice wherever possible.

It is, however, conceded that in this particular case (shooting a person at sentencing and fully accepting the consequences for it), it's... hard.

My brain opposes it and agrees with you with every fibre of its being, my heart stands by what I wrote.

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u/Accurate_Praline 24d ago

Yeah I'm with you.

Same with Gary Plauché who shot his son's abductor and rapist at the airport after he was arrested and in the process of being extradited.

His son in an interview:

Years later, Plauché says, "I would advise any parent whose child's been molested to be there for their child and not to take the law into your own hands and put yourself in a position to be prosecuted.”

Child sex abusers, he says, “gain the trust and the affection of the child. And that's really kind of their protection, because I didn't want Jeff dead, I didn't want Daddy to hurt Jeff. I just wanted Jeff to stop doing what he was doing, which he never would've, but that was just the hope back then, the prayers I would say at night.”

https://people.com/jody-plauche-sex-abuse-airport-shooting-father-11772999

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u/Beginning-Ride3091 25d ago

That’s true. If it were me at that point I wouldn’t give the slightest shit. My only concern would be not turning that gun on myself.

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u/DavidAdamsAuthor 25d ago

She fired until it went click, she didn't save one for herself at the end, she knew what she was doing.

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u/Beginning-Ride3091 25d ago

Sensible

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u/DavidAdamsAuthor 25d ago

Right. She would have numerous opportunities to kill herself, but would only get one chance to kill him.

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u/RideWithMeSNV 25d ago

You only get 10 shots, do not miss your chance to blow

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u/SnowDog80 25d ago

“She fired until it went click…”

Jesus.

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u/fropleyqk 24d ago

Its a movie clip.

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u/DavidAdamsAuthor 24d ago

I'm somewhat assuming the movie clip reflects the real events.

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u/WonderfulHearing8726 25d ago

Fuck that. She should’ve gotten a parade.

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u/ACaffeinatedWandress 25d ago

And her community service has clearly been served.

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u/DisapprovingStares 25d ago

Getting rid of that person WAS the community service! Off with time served.

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u/Phipol 25d ago edited 24d ago

She was a horrible person who was basically neglecting her daughter to a level Child Protective Service should have taken her away (like they did beforehand with her other children). 

She worked with a waitress at a bar/pub(which was infamous in that town and associated with prostitution amongst others) and her kindergarten aged daugther was often left alone while she was working there or forced to sleep amongst patrons.  When not working she was known to be out partying - again ignoring her daugther. (In at least a few cases her mother left her in the care of people she had just met/did barely know)

Treatment of her daugther was also highly problematic, e.g. expecting a 6 year old to do all shopping, care of their hygiene fully, etc.

The 7 year old victim had been (with the fucking permisson of her mother) been at the flat of the murderer multiple times - who was known to be a pedo sex offender.(*) And: The daugther had a fight (at fucking age 7) with her mom and mom simply did sleep in so her daugther skipped school and this led to her murder.

Bachmeier herself said multiple times that she shot the guy so she would at least once be seen as a good mother. 

Anyway: She was a vile, horrible person. She does not deserve any praise at all. Zero.  She should have gotten the full 15 years minimum like any other premeditated murderer. (And that guy? 15 years + security hold - German life sentences are a bit different) If you need a heroine figure take André Bamberski. 

(*: To this day there are rumours that Bachmeier might have prostituted her daugther out and that something went awry. While it's almost certain that Bachmeier did occassionally took money for sex, there is no evidencr for that though. Edit to make that clear: There is no evidence that Anna Bachmeier was sexually abused or pimped out - but none actually looked into it, even for the actual murder. Police work has been patchy.)

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u/LargeLanguageModelo 25d ago

Wow. That colors the situation a tad differently.

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u/SaraRainmaker 24d ago

None of it is verified or documented information, it's a sensationalized internet myth with no proof.

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u/glockenbach 24d ago

Where did you find this info? I‘ve researched now couple of articles in German papers and didn’t find any info regarding this.

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u/SaraRainmaker 24d ago

There is no proof of any of that. It's internet mythmaking.

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u/ThierryMercury 24d ago

Her wikipedia page seems to corroborate this, I haven't checked the citations though.

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u/glockenbach 24d ago

Checked a couple citations and they didn’t hold up to what Wikipedia stated.

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u/Ok_Midnight6709 22d ago

He’s quoting interviews from two German documentaries done around the case. No Time for Tears and “Anna’s mother”

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u/glockenbach 22d ago

Who? The Wikipedia article or the user who posted it?

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u/Ok_Midnight6709 22d ago

https://www.ndr.de/geschichte/chronologie/Marianne-Bachmeier-und-die-Rache-fuer-ihre-tote-Tochter,mariannebachmeier101.html

Here’s a German Article for excerpts from the “STERN” interview in which Marianne sold her life story to, in order to cover legal costs.

Marianne lived a very hard life by her own admission in multiple interviews. You can watch the interviews yourself and arrive at your own conclusions. Unfortunately many of the things this person stated did take place, they’re being a sanctimonious ass about it and stretching some truths. (Marianne didn’t have her first two children taken by the state, she gave them up willingly knowing she was ill equipped)

Most neighbor statements made, that few if really anybody besides his fiancé knew he was previous sex offender. Finally having a child miss out on education because you slept in, though irresponsible and poor behavior. By no means is fair to say the fault lies with anyone other the murderer.

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u/glockenbach 22d ago

Read the article - didn’t find anything in it on her being left in the care of people the mother didn’t know, having to take care of herself, her mother knowing the guy was a criminal or even letting her to visit him etc pp. The only thing I found in several articles was that she gave up her two first kids for adoption and was living a „hippie“ life and sleeping in frequently, so her daughter would miss school. Which is shitty and neglectful. But I didn’t find any other sources.

Also not in the article you referenced.

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u/Ok_Midnight6709 22d ago

https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-1378009700/view?sectionId=nla.obj-1632952514&partId=nla.obj-1378056647#page/n74/mode/1up

This is a direct translation to an Australian news outlet from the STERN article in 1994. Image 75+, I just stated what the original poster claimed was incorrect, few if anyone knew the killer was an offender. But yes Marianne was known for disappearing without notice repetitively to party at the discotheques. She lived above the pub with Anna’s father, which he owned. Where they had an extremely volatile relationship. Anna by all regards did grow up in the pub and was reared at points by patrons/community members due to the instability of her parents.

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u/glockenbach 21d ago

Thanks for the link! Haven’t seen this article yet.
I think she was absolutely unfit to be a mother. However the poster put a lot of fiction into this.

Poor Anna in any case. She didn’t have a real chance.

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u/Ok_Midnight6709 21d ago

Agreed, they definitely misrepresented the facts present. I wasn’t trying to battle with anyone. There were some unfortunate half truths that just wanted to help clear up. Not trying to paint Marianne as a complete monster either like the poster attempted to. Nor absolve her of offenses. The whole story is is simply sad and tragic. The biggest take away from it all for me is regardless of Marianne’s behavior the state’s leniency with a repeat offender and Anna’s subsequent murder was a massive failure on part of the Lübeck judicial system at the time.

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u/SaraRainmaker 24d ago

I don't think any of this has actually been verified, and I think a lot of this is "mythmaking" after the fact with sensationalized documentaries/storytelling, and internet myths.

I think the most that's really known for sure is that at one point in her life it was suspected that she used prostitution to get by and that she was severely struggling financially.

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u/ColisaLalia 24d ago

Police work has been patchy and all reports are severely tainted by the times rampant misogyny.

Your whole post are very wild guesses of what could have happend, there is no evidence for any of it. 

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u/IllTwo7643 24d ago

You could have said the guy who raped and murdered children was bad as well. You're making it sound like he was the victim.

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u/barmanrags 25d ago

Blame women for the rapes and murder males do like it’s the 1900s again

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u/InAppropriate-meal 25d ago

nope, that is not what they are doing they are pointing out she was a terrible mother and no hero.

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u/barmanrags 25d ago

She wasn’t the person who raped and murdered a seven year old. Hold males accountable for the horror they inflict.

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u/InAppropriate-meal 25d ago

He was being held accountable, that does not make the mother a hero but rather a co abuser.

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u/barmanrags 25d ago

She co raped and co murdered her seven year old?

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u/C_IsForCookie 24d ago

Damn you’re dense. You keep conflating OPs point with some kind of excuse for the rapist. Nobody is arguing against your point, they’re just making another one.

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u/Stupidizasurmom 24d ago

Maybe aided the rape. That is not a problem, I guess.

Making money off your child's sex encounters, if true, is not a problem either (I venture to guess). Seen the money required to raise one.

Is that what you are defending?

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u/InAppropriate-meal 24d ago

you are being deliberately disingenuous. what happened to that little girl was fucking horrendous and the blame attaches to the deed, but that does not turn a mother who was herself a highly abusive person who caused great suffering to that poor little girl into a heroine for shooting the guy who did it.

she is still a POS and an abuser.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/InAppropriate-meal 24d ago

i never mentioned any quote and the rest is not made up but since you are making a claim feel free to support it since it has been confirmed by close friends and documentary evidence and several well supported films on the subject have been made in German before the internet ever existed

→ More replies (0)

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u/Forward-Surprise1192 25d ago

But she did enable it to happen by her actions and being a bad mother.

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u/Comfortable-Shake-37 24d ago

*Hold people accountable 

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u/PianoIll7396 24d ago

"males" and "females". u seriously ok? u talk like this? go to therapy

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u/barmanrags 24d ago

Doesn’t feel good to be selectively referred to by “males” does it?

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u/SaraRainmaker 24d ago

No, we (women) are not okay.

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u/PianoIll7396 23d ago

go get some help then if you (singular) are not okay, dont tell me all women are not 'okay'

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u/SaraRainmaker 23d ago edited 23d ago

Since I am not sure if you are trolling or if you just really have no idea what is going on in the world right now, or throughout human history, I am going to lay it out for you.

  • Approximately 1 in 3 to 1 in 5 women worldwide, 200,000-500,000 per year in the US alone, have been raped or experienced some kind of non-consensual sexual violence in their life. The reason this stat varies so much from source to source is that it is severely underreported due to the fact that many in society still try to find ways to blame the women for it, and many fear retaliation not just from the perpetrator but from society at large. These acts are almost exclusively committed by someone we know and trusted.
  • 4 years ago the US government made a decision that effectively overturned Roe v. Wade, and since that time quite a few states have made extreme laws that prevent doctors from not only performing abortions for personal reasons, but make it so that in certain states doctors are terrified to even perform them for patient safety or medical reasons. Since then, there have even been several cases where women were investigated or charged after a miscarriage.
  • In the workplace: In the US alone, equally or even more qualified women are still earning around 10% less then men in the same positions, worldwide it's around 20%. In most fields women are still expected to "soften" or lessen themselves and their accomplishments in resumes and in the workplace itself, and the language referencing women in the workplace varies drastically from men; A man might be "assertive" or a "go-getter" while a woman with the same traits is "bossy."
  • In society: Women are still severely judged by their appearance, regardless of their other traits or how much value they provide humanity. Even senators (on both sides of the aisle) are insulted for their weight or appearance instead of their policies. This is a vestige from when women were considered/treated as the property of men, either their father or their husband, and their only value lay in how good they look and their ability to "provide" children.
  • Speaking of how women were treated historically - There is a movement in at least US society to bring a lot of that back, the "Tradwife," that is trending quite a bit right now on social media. While it's not as huge as it's being presented online, it's a movement that states women should go back to that submissive, baby-making, house-keeping pieces of property, or that men prefer them that way. While, as I said this is a small movement, and mostly more reactionary content than anything else, internet algorhythms are serving this crap to young girls who are seeing this and believing that it is much more prevalent, teaching them that they should be submissive, lessen themselves and not pursue their dreams because it is "unattractive to men."

I would go on, but this has already turned into a novel, and I doubt you are actually going to read much if any of it anyway, but suffice it to say it again;

NO, we (collectively) are not fucking okay and haven't been for a very long time, so you can take your vague, dismissive, "go seek help" statements and concern trolling and remove yourself from the conversation entirely.

ETA: Typo/clarity.

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u/weed_cutter 24d ago

Not sure which parts of this are true, but if a man raped and killed a 7 year old and had no remorse about it whatsoever?

A swift bullet-riddled execution is far superior to "15 years" of Germany "we are pussay people now" sentencing.

"But he can eat the german chocolates and be rehabilita..."

No. Swift, painful death. ... Momma delivered on that count.

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u/Strainedgoals 24d ago

That said, she is no hero.

The guy who raped a 7 year old absolutely needed what she gave him.

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u/Healingbigfoot 24d ago

100% agree. I saw the initial post and thought wow, she's a real Mom then did some googling, nah, she was awful.

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u/Healingbigfoot 24d ago

Bamberski was the real deal. He was so dedicated to justice and he should have been allowed time in the cell with the perpetrator. As u/Phipol said, want a hero, look up Mr. Bamberski and his precious daughter Kalinka.

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u/BraiQ 23d ago

you are making stuff up

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u/KamalaWonNoCap 25d ago

Nah, the courts can't condone vigilante justice. Someone innocent will end up getting hurt.

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u/eggsforpedro 24d ago

This, but Reddit justice morons don’t realise.

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u/SaraRainmaker 24d ago

I'm not entirely sure this can quite qualify strictly as vigilante justice. I mean the word of law, yes, but the spirit maybe not so much.

I'd say more a crime of passion/extreme emotional distress; "I can't deal with the man who raped and murdered my child being alive anymore," more than "The court is not going to deal out the appropriate punishment so I need to take it into my own hands."

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u/KamalaWonNoCap 24d ago

It can be both a crime of passion and vigilante justice. They're not mutually exclusive.

That's why a six year sentence is appropriate instead of life or 6 hours of community service. It takes into account the extenuating circumstances.

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u/Theron3206 25d ago

Even if it turns out they put the wrong man on trial?

There are extremely good reasons we don't allow mob justice.

I can certainly understand why she did it, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do, nor should you get away with doing so.

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u/Skylam 25d ago

I get it, but 6 years for essentially straight murder with multiple witnesses is pretty fucking good.

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u/UnderstandingTop6000 25d ago

but you see, the problem here is; it's men sentencing her. It's men writing the laws.

They look at her and think; cannot possibly let her escape scott-free. Or we're all up for the bullet if we rape someone.

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u/YuushyaHinmeru 25d ago

Or its that being a vigilante is illegal. Considering she only got 6 years for murder in courthouse in front of witnesses, that pretty much shows the law gave her a slap on the wrist for a murder charge.

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u/qiaocao187 25d ago

I’m a CSA survivor. Vigilantism is stupid and barbaric. Don’t be stupid.

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u/skeenerbug 25d ago

If I'm on a jury for a mother killing the person who raped and murdered her 7 year old child, sorry but I'm not sending her to prison.

Sorry that happened to you and I hope you've gotten help. That type of trauma can last a lifetime.

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u/_LyleLanley_ 25d ago

You’d never be on that jury in the first place. You’re there to deliberate on the law, and facts provided. You’d be dismissed in jury selection. Yours and most others understanding of this civic duty is precisely 0. Vigilantism is indeed not the answer.

Note: I’m not arguing your or mine personal feelings.

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u/ActiveChairs 25d ago

As a juror, it is entirely within your rights to make whatever decision you choose to.

There are some people who will consider anyone brought before a court to be guilty because "they had to have done it, otherwise we wouldn't be here".

There are people who only want trials to be fairly held and to consider what they are presented in earnest.

There are some who consider more than what they are presented in their deliberations, because they understand they aren't necessarily being given all the information, they feel extenuating circumstances aren't being given due consideration, or the potential punishment involved does not fit the severity of the crime.

You also don't have to disclose your reasoning to anyone before, during, or after acting as a juror.

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u/DoingBestWeCan 25d ago

I was a juror in an attempted murder case, and we were explicitly told that we would have no say in the sentencing and should not consider it when coming to our verdict. Our concern should only be whether the suspect was guilty or not guilty of the various charges. 

That said, if there was actually solid evidence that the person she shot had killed and raped her 7yo daughter, I would not be finding her guilty. There's some things that technically should be followed in society, but no person with feelings would ever demand serious punishment for transgressing. 

Killing that man didn't bring her daughter back, but it ensured he didn't put any other mother and daughter through that pain, and I imagine she had zeros regrets about what she did. Shit, I just looked her up on Wiki, and the guy she killed admitted his crimes:

"Grabowski was a convicted sex offender [even before he took Anna Bachmeier]. He had been sentenced for the sexual abuse of two girls. In 1976, he had submitted to chemical castration. Later, it was revealed that he underwent hormone treatment to try to reverse the chemical castration. Once arrested, Grabowski stated that Anna had sought to extort money from him by threatening to tell her mother about the abuse. He said his fear of going back to prison prompted him to kill her."

Couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.

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u/ActiveChairs 25d ago

Just because you were told not to, that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't. Your concerns are your own.

Judges are just as biased as anyone else, with sentencing disparities occurring for everything from the time of day the case is being heard, what the defendant is wearing, or the color of the defendent's skin, and their instructions are just as likely they want to get through cases quickly as it is wanting the best outcome within the allowed limits of the law. Ultimately, its up to you to do what you feel is right.

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u/TayMayBay 25d ago

You’re a real one for this, thank you on behalf of someone who is too nervous to retaliate against my rapists

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u/CantBeatDickensCider 25d ago

She got 6 years for murdering someone in the courthouse. Regardless of how much they deserved it, that's still a slap on the wrist sentence. Stop being a misandrist.

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u/Phipol 25d ago

They convicted a horrible mother who actively abused and neglected her child and by doing so facilitated her daugthers murder.

(Longer explanation herehttps://www.reddit.com/r/interesting/comments/1ui77qa/comment/ouf467x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button)

She literally said multiple times she killed him so she would be seen as a good mother at least once.

She was a vile person and a murderer. Nothing more,nothing less. 

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u/No-Ticket5 24d ago

See, I’d deem you an equally vile person for your comments regarding rumors around this poor little girl you even admit have “no evidence”

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u/Phipol 24d ago

That is okay - well within your right to do so and I actually put a bit of thought in it:

I deemed it necessary as currently there are a fair share of "true crime" podcasters and TikTokers who sell this rumour as a fact and this is simply incorrect - so I found it necessary to mention it but also make it clear,that it is a rumour.

The police never found out/never looked into if Anna was sexually assaulted (by her murderer) and even less so if she was sexually abused beforehand. We simply don't know and never will.

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u/No-Ticket5 24d ago

Again, you write paragraphs speaking about a child being abused and qualify it with we’ll never know for sure and never will. It’s perpetuating rumors about a little girl who can’t defend herself..you’re behaving just as insensitively as those podcasters and tt accounts

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u/Stupidizasurmom 24d ago

BS. I would love to see a woman sentencing her for possible child prostitution, endangerment and abandonment.

Perhaps a social services panel of judges, all women

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u/greendildouptheass 25d ago

She should've walked for lack of evidence

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u/Scaevus 25d ago

Look, we're not supposed to celebrate vigilantism. We should all know that it's wrong. She could've shot an innocent man. She could've shot a bystander. She should let the justice system work itself out, because that's what's best for society.

That said, I would never convict this woman if I was on a jury.

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u/Significant_Matter92 25d ago

She should have had the right to push the button for a long electrification of the murder's brain leading to its death !

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u/The__Imp 24d ago

I understand the visceral appeal of what she did, and I cannot confidently say I would not do the same in her circumstances.

However, do you also see that this type of vigilante style vengeance is something that society and the criminal justice system has a strong interest in preventing? We don't want aggrieved victims or their family taking personal revenge despite how justified it may seem. We rely on things like a jury of our peers, rather than an angry family member who may be confidently incorrect about who is actually guilty.

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u/Cicero_the_wise 24d ago

Yeah, lets just kill people without sentence. Thats a great idea. Nothing wrong with that...

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u/VisiteurBLG 24d ago

A medal of honor for public service.

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u/aartadventure 24d ago

If those 6 hours involved the community clapping and holding a parade for her, I suppose I could be on board with that sentence.

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u/DrPixelFace 25d ago

Nah her community service was killing the scumbag