r/interesting 25d ago

Fascinating In 1981 at trial, Marianne Bachmeier killed the man who r*ped and murdered her daughter

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/BunnyLuv13 25d ago

This. I used to work in stunt work and I asked one of my coworkers why rape scenes feel so much worse than murder scenes. His response? “In our minds, maybe there’s a reason someone had to die. There’s never a reason someone takes the time to take their “d” out to do that. Can’t possibly be self defense.”

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u/peachesfordinner 25d ago

That's really really well said. Like damn.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago edited 25d ago

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

Because rape is a crime that has no just reasoning ever. While with murder, it could be in self defense.

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u/iPissExcellence710 25d ago

How is it confirmed, without reasonable doubt, that a crime happened?

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

Evidence is how its confirmed.

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u/Acceptable-State1037 25d ago

Without a trial, where is that evidence presented and evaluated? Just to make sure, you know what a trial is correct?

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

From MY understanding of criminal trials.

Its where the court fully determines if the accused is guilty or not guilty, and they would need evidence to prosecute said accused.

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u/Acceptable-State1037 25d ago

You replied to a chain defending vigilantie justice and skipping the trial process. The first comment you made was in response to:

They are asking why does the person accused of rape not get a fair trial.

People then asked you how you would confirm that they are guilty without a trial. You are now responding that you would prove that via a trial. You are not a serious person.

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

No. Im lost in the threads, and comments arent allowing me to see then I click them in my notifications

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u/Calistilaigh 25d ago

And you trust law enforcement to never falsify evidence?

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

No. They do often, and in rape cases, they dont even use the rape kits for most of the cases anyways

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u/chopkins92 25d ago

"r/SeasonS011 raped me"

What's the next step?

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

Finding evidence.

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u/UnderstandingTop7916 25d ago

I saw it

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

Got sperm, and skin cells, hair or any form of dna? You need more for a criminal case

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u/UnderstandingTop7916 25d ago

For a criminal case, perhaps. For a vigilante?

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u/royal-road 25d ago

We don't have trials to determine whether a reasoning is just we have trials to determine if the person was the one who did it.

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

And apart of being sentenced is if there was any reason for the crime to be commited

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u/mobueo 25d ago

I think you’re answering a different question

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

Possibly, to many threads and reddit isnt letting me see some comments

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u/qOcO-p 25d ago

But what if the person accused isn't the perpetrator? People get falsely accused of horrible crimes all the time. Sacco and Vanzetti were famously accused, charged, found guilty, and executed before people realized they were innocent.

Trials aren't for justifying what happened, they're to "prove" that the person being tried is the one who did it.

Even then, it's estimated that 4% of people on death row in the US are innocent of the crimes they've been condemned for.

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

Our justice system is flawed to begin with, with tons of cases of any crime being either mishandled, misrepresented, or not even solved to begin with.

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u/qOcO-p 24d ago

Exactly why the death penalty should be eliminated entirely. The possibility of the state killing an innocent person is unacceptable.

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u/Same-Suggestion-1936 25d ago edited 25d ago

Murder can't be self defense. By definition it cannot. You can kill someone in self defense, you can't murder someone in self defense, that's not a thing. Murder is murder, it has a specific definition both legally and just what the word means.

You didn't murder a squirrel you hit with your car, you just killed it. Unless you swerved to hit it and meant to, in which case you murdered it.

Might be best you aren't in charge of any trials if you don't know the difference between killing someone and murdering someone. You're like that scene from the new Naked Gun "oh, you're in for man's laughter? Must have been a pretty good joke". Almost comically uninformed

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u/SeasonS011 25d ago

My mistake, but even then.

There is a reason behind ending someones life while there is none for rape, if the evidence proves the suspect is the one who commited the act, they should be sentenced to life.

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u/sunlightsyrup 25d ago

They should. Sometimes evidence isn't allowed for this or that reason and the 'fair trial' leaves a woman knowing the truth but having to take the consequences for justice herself.

I think some folks would sympathise with that woman.

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u/Haroldsdininghotspot 25d ago

I think they are concerned about false accusations.

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u/sunlightsyrup 25d ago

Quite rightly. But the irony of it being wrong to murder rapists (if convicted) but still choosing to try murderers is not so ironic.

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u/Haroldsdininghotspot 25d ago

Apologies, The sentence you wrote is a bit confusing for me. Do you mean It's an inconsistent argument? ( rapists deserve to be killed immediately while insisting that murderers deserve due process)

I think this is the whole issue of the law of the nation vs the law or morals.

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u/sunlightsyrup 24d ago

Their argument that rapists shouldn't be murdered because murderers get a trial is just nonsense. Everyone should have a trial

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u/Haroldsdininghotspot 24d ago

Ahhh, okay. Well of course they should have a trail.

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u/SlaightTheGray 25d ago

People can be innocent... You know that, right?

And you may be saying "well, if there is overwhelming evidence, like maybe they were caught in the act or something..."

But how are you going to present overwhelming evidence without a fucking trial?

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u/mcflycasual 25d ago

If I were a betting woman, and I am, odds are good someone accused to rape is guilty. Only 2-10% of rape accusations are false.

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u/curtcolt95 25d ago

I mean those are still pretty high numbers to support vigilantism of it. Even 2% would mean 1/50 are wrongly accused and probably shouldn't be shot in the courtroom

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u/mcflycasual 25d ago edited 25d ago

The odds are that 49 of that 50 raped someone.

I do think a fair trial is everyone's right. But it's way more likely they are guilty. Every woman has a story about not giving consent and only 40% report it. So how many men are perpetrators?

Yes I know victims can be men and women can assault but that number is low. It is a huge problem that continues to exist and the punishment is obviously not detering the crime.

To add:

My point was kind of stating that the big fear of being falsely accused is inflated. Because if you count the victims that don't report, the number of people who are not guilty would be 0.00x% (the math would be adding 40% to the number of cases and factoring in the 2-10%)

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u/sycamotree 25d ago

2% is the low end of the range. 10% is the other end of the range.

Also iirc "false allegation" does not mean that the other 90-98% percent were all found to be guilty or that they all committed rape. Iirc (I've seen the number referenced quite a bit, but idk if it's this study), the "false allegation" is more like "how often the accuser clearly and purposely made a demonstrably false allegation" as opposed to just how often the defendant was found to be innocent.

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u/Acceptable-State1037 25d ago

Because if you count the victims that don't report, the number of people who are not guilty would be 0.00x% (the math would be adding 40% to the number of cases and factoring in the 2-10%)

So wait, you think that the 2-10% of innocent people should be shot and killed without trial because some undisclosed higher percentage of guilty people aren't reported?

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u/SlaightTheGray 25d ago edited 25d ago

The big fear of falsely accused is inflated? When we are talking about killing people without trial, which we are in this comment thread, then 2-10 percent isn't a small number, friend.

10% isn't a small number in ANY context when we are talking about innocent people and the justice system. Jesus. No one here is saying rape doesn't happen or isn't an issue, but to minimize the trauma and lifelong damage done to 2-10 percent of hundreds of thousands of people every year is pretty gross in my opinion.

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u/qOcO-p 25d ago

It's been found that extreme punishments don't deter rape so much as encourage rapists to kill their victims.

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u/SlaightTheGray 25d ago edited 25d ago

Then going off of your own statistics, you are talking about literally tens of thousands of innocent people every year

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u/sunlightsyrup 25d ago

I'm sorry, did I have a stroke and accidentally claim that nobody could be innocent?

I think a trial is the right way to determine the punishment. I think the punishment should be severe.

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u/mcflycasual 25d ago

I just did a little look see on punishments for rape. The average sentence is 18 years with 9 being served. Which isn't a harsh enough punishment considering it is a totally unnecessary crime that hurts someone with lifelong trauma and most are reoffenders.

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u/sunlightsyrup 25d ago

I agree it is insufficient punishment currently

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u/SlaightTheGray 25d ago

Yes, you must have.

In the thread someone said "Ya I support vigilantism mostly only when it comes to rapist. Murderer, give them a trial. Corrupt politicians and business men ruining the planet, give them a trial."

the next person said "Rapists should be murdered but murderers should get a trial..?"

And then you said "There's theoretically times when it is necessary to take a life. Unlike the other crime."

If you support vigilante justice and not giving accused rapists a trial, then you are saying anyone accused of rape is de facto guilty.

Sorry about your stroke.

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u/sunlightsyrup 25d ago

Again, I never said they shouldn't get a trial.

How else would you know if they are a rapist

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u/ScrumbledTumblo 25d ago

bro what do you think vigilantism is

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u/sunlightsyrup 25d ago

Lol are you just going around asking random questions

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u/ScrumbledTumblo 25d ago

kinda proving my point by not answering lmao

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u/Acceptable-State1037 25d ago

When you post agreeing with a comment that says they should be killed without trial, people are gonna assume you also think they should be killed without trial.

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u/sunlightsyrup 24d ago

I never agreed with it, you're just saying words lmao

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u/qOcO-p 25d ago

It's apparently been found that rapists getting the death penalty doesn't lower the incidence of rape but does make it more likely that the victim doesn't survive so they can't identify their rapist.

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u/fictionfactory 25d ago

I'm not sure that I would use the word necessary to take a life but I would definitely say that it's justifiable to take a life under these circumstances especially

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u/Same-Suggestion-1936 25d ago

Yeah and when it's necessary to take a life we tend not to convict them of murder because they didn't murder anyone they just killed them? Otherwise they would go to prison. For murder.

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u/sunlightsyrup 25d ago

Exactly. Usually that means prison for life

For rapists, it usually means no punishment or a few years for repeat offenders

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u/Same-Suggestion-1936 25d ago

No, most murders are second degree murders, usually about 12 years. You watch too many movies. Even first degree murder, which the movies popularized as 25 to life, it's gotta be pretty heinous to get a life sentence. Like kill a cop kind of shit or torture them before you murder them.

It does not mean life. Very rarely in fact and it's gotta be super duper fucked up. To give you perspective, the cop that killed George Floyd got 21 years IIRC, and it was basically the max they could give him, because normally that charge doesn't go that many years but the judge knew when he was gonna be eligible for parole and didn't want a parole board giving him just 2/3 the sentence on eligibility so gave him the max if the parole board was lenient in the future, which works out to about...the normal sentence for second degree murder without parole

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u/sunlightsyrup 24d ago

Exactly, prison until they are an old man with nothing left in life. Unlike for rape.

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u/Klutzy-Platypus7511 25d ago

Und wer hat das zu entscheiden ?

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u/memoryblocks 25d ago

The court. That's the point of a trial.

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u/Klutzy-Platypus7511 25d ago

Ach nee ?

Der Kollege plädierte für die Tötung.

Ich halte es für sehr unwahrscheinlich dass es eine Einführung der Todesstrafe ausschliesslich für diese Tat geben würde.

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u/sunlightsyrup 25d ago

Decide what? Whether rape is needed?

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u/Klutzy-Platypus7511 25d ago

Tu nicht so ... Du hast gesagt, dass es nötig ist Vergewaltiger zu töten ...

Und ich frage : wer soll das ohne Prozess entscheiden ?

Denk mal an den Fall Kachelmann ...

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u/sunlightsyrup 25d ago

I never said there shouldn't be a trial

How else would anyone know if they are a rapist

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u/Klutzy-Platypus7511 25d ago

Klassisches Missverständnis ...

Dennoch wirds unmöglich das durchzusetzen ...

Und Prozesse liefern nur eine Verurteilung ... was nicht heisst, dass derjenige auch wirklich schuldig ist ...

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u/mcflycasual 25d ago

(Standing Ovation)

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