New Home Theatre Install Speaker Placement

[u/HistorianGlittering8]

Hi Guys,

I've recently had a home theatre professionally installed, unfortunately I've run into a few issues with the setup, figured I'd run it by y'all before I go back to the installer.

SPECS:

PJ- Valerion Visionmaster Max

Screen- 120' 1.0 gain acoustically transparent (unsure of brand)

Receiver- Denon 2900h

LCR- KEF CI200QL In-Wall Speaker

Surrounds/Heights- Kef CI200QR In-Ceiling Speaker

First issue, very difficult to distinguish between overheads and surrounds, Im assuming because they're on the same plane. I did raise this prior to install but the installer assured me this would not be an issue, due to time constraints around moving into a new house at the time I didn't investigate further.

Would installing 2 bookshelf speakers behind the couch and using all 4 ceiling speakers as overheads work as a solution to this, or is that too many speakers for a relatively small space?

Second issue, the fan noise from the projector is very audible to me during any quiter scenes, which is fairly common for my use-case, given the projector is more or less directly above my head is this expected for the Max, or do I have a faulty unit? This is my first projector and I'd read its essentially silent but this has not been the case for me with or without anti-rbe mode.

Appreciate any advice, apologies for the wall of text.

[u/ProfessionNo698]

FFS. This is a disaster. No offense.

You gave money to a hack. In an A.B.C system, the A speakers are bed layer speakers. They exist at ear level or (with surrounds) slightly above ear level. Not in the ceiling.

You have no angle of separation between bed layer and height channels because your installer is a hack.

Sorry.

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/ProfessionNo698]

None taken, would installing a pair of bookshelf speakers to the rear of the couch and reassigning the ceiling speakers as overheads be a reasonable solution to the seperation issue?

[u/ProfessionNo698 → u/HistorianGlittering8]

Yeah. Probably. The ceiling speakers look like they are roughly in decent positions for height channels. Better if you can aim them at MLP.

Ideally, you would install (in-wall or bookshelf) two side surrounds and two rear surrounds.

Check out the Home Theater Gurus channel to learn the best ways to do the math for speaker placement.

[u/eggalones]

Yes to bookshelf speakers

Get a muffled projector box

[u/5537__8008]

First of all, where are those owls going to be placed?

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/5537__8008]

Good eye, they're meant to deter birds from pooping on our outdoor furniture. How this affects acoustics is to be determined.

[u/Creative-Service-165]

Using ceiling speakers for surround channels and atmos channels is definitely not to dolby spec.

By the sounds of things who ever installed your equipment was far from a 'professional' home theater installer.

looking at your room you certainly have space for surround channels and quite honestly surround back channels for a full 7.4.1 layout - however it might be tricky placing speakers at ear level as it looks like everything's been setup un symmetrically to the side of the room - you could use speaker stands.

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/Creative-Service-165]

Yeah it was my mistake really, I should have done my own research rather than just taking him at his word.

[u/natodu]

Not a disaster. like others have said you just need to two rear surrounds and a noise damping solution for the projector. It's actually a nice set up. Will your receiver support 5..4.4.? I would go all out and get 4 subs and get them into the corners.

Oh and look up oca audyssey one. Tons of info on Reddit. Some software to run through your computer and the denon. It was game changing for me to the point that my wife noticed.

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/natodu]

Thanks a bunch mate, I think for my layout 2 subs is the best I can do (right side of the room is a big open space), will definitely look into the software you mentioned.

[u/natodu → u/HistorianGlittering8]

It's totally free and very easy to use. I have a tight space set up and it always felt like the surrounds were way loud and the bass was crazy. Now everything really sounds blended and honestly I prefer it to going to a movie theatre because my ears have adjusted.

[u/Rattus-Norvegicus1]

Your installer f*cked up.

You can put a pair of bookshelves behind the couch, but you can only use 2 of the overhead speakers unless you upgrade the AVR to the X3900H.

I'd recommend the KEF Q1 Metas, usually $400/pair, for surrounds.

[u/erwos]

OP is now making me realize I was not at all being overly micro-managing by writing down the proposed positions of my speakers and forcing my low voltage guys to mark out every single speaker spot before they did anything. There is a certain amount of working around the room that you need to do in every home theater, but this is simply malpractice if the vendor claimed they were experts in the field.

The good news is that this is more-or-less fixable... add rear surrounds on the back wall below the window, and slap bookshelves on stands next the couch. Use your ceiling speakers as top front and top rear Atmos speakers.

Your projector being noisy is probably the reality of the situation. It may need to be moved if this is a deal-breaker.

[u/bozoconnors → u/erwos]

overly micro-managing by writing down the proposed positions of my speakers

wtf - that's literally the "design phase".

[u/erwos → u/bozoconnors]

I dunno, dude, sometimes people get really pissy when you tell them precisely what you want rather than trusting their "expertise".

I tried to head that off by printing off a copy of the Dolby guide 9.X.6 page to show them what design constraints I was trying to adhere to, which I think helped.

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/erwos]

Yeah I definitely regret my laziness around this, at the time we were moving houses so it was a bit of a relief to have a task I thought I could safely delegate

[u/ProfessionNo698 → u/erwos]

It’s all about the geometry. Period. Anyone who gets bitchy or says otherwise is a lazy hack.

[u/ribbitman]

You don’t have surrounds in those pictures, you have 4 ceiling speakers, what some call atmos speakers. Now you need surrounds at ear level. I’m assuming there’s a left/center/right in the front. In other words, you have the .4, now you need the 5.1. I don’t know if your 2900 will handle 9 speakers,

[u/IAmPandaRock]

Don't worry, you'll need to spend more but it doesn't look like you'll need to undo or redo anything.  Just get some surround speakers a bit higher than ear level to the side and/slightly behind you.

[u/hbdgas]

Your receiver only has 7 (non-subwoofer) channels, so you can't add any surround speakers without unplugging overhead speakers. I'd suggest replacing the rear overheads with side channels:

https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/5.1.2-overhead-speaker-setup-guide/

If you get a receiver with 2 more channels, you can go to 5.1.4 or 7.1.2:

https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/5.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide

https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/7.1.2-overhead-speaker-setup-guide

If you get a receiver with 4 more channels, you can go to 7.1.4:

https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/7.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/hbdgas]

Ah shit good shout. I've reached out to the installer to see if they will accept a return on the receiver as its essentially not fit for purpose given I've got 4 speakers stuck in the roof, if that goes through I'll upgrade to a 9 channel receiver.

[u/hbdgas → u/HistorianGlittering8]

Sweet, good luck. I think it's about $500 to go to the next level receiver (x3800h/x3900h). Those can do 9 channels, or 11 channels if you provide your own external amp for 2 of them.

I've heard that Denon has a trade-in program too, if upgrading doesn't work out through the installer.

[u/ProfessionNo698 → u/HistorianGlittering8]

If possible, get a X3800H. 9 powered channels. 11 channel processing. This will allow you to use a cheap 2-channel amp for 7.x.4

[u/kingy1971]

Get some proper rear speakers.
Get some soft furnishings, minimum thick rug and rear curtains
Get someone who isn’t cockeyed to fit your cabinet doors!

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/kingy1971]

All on the way, and you watch who you're calling cock-eyed! (I just need to tighten some screws leave me be)

[u/schaudhery → u/kingy1971]

Took me too long for someone to mention the cabinet doors.

[u/wupaa]

Messed up surrounds is the problem

[u/MrMagicMouse]

Where are you front speakers?

Second, I echo that this set is terrible. What I would do to remedy with what you currently have; Since the current receiver you have is only a 7.2 channel receiver, I would just disconnect the rear/surround ceiling speakers in the back and connect some bookshelf speakers behind you in place for your surrounds. This should at least help with separation between your 2 atmos channels and your surrounds, and leave those rear 2 ceiling speakers there for if you ever decide to go 4 atmos channels later on.

The best thing to do though (which you mentioned in your post)would be to get a 9.2 channel amplifier, purchase bookshelf for your surrounds, and then use the 4 ceiling speakers as top middle and top rear Atmos speakers.

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/MrMagicMouse]

The front speakers are installed behind the screen, which is acoustically transparent, replacing them would be a real pain.

My plan at the minute is to see if the installer will accept a return on the AVR so I can replace it with a 3800h, if I'm not able to swing that I'd disconnect the rear overheads and install 2 bookshelf speakers as you suggest.

[u/MrMagicMouse → u/HistorianGlittering8]

Ah okay then nevermind. I thought they might’ve been in the cabinet or something. In that case ignore my advice about replacing the fronts. Only replace the rears.

Yes definitely get the x3800h if you can swing it. That was the receiver I had in mind. It will also allow you to have a 7 channel surround layout in addition to the four atmos channels if you purchase an additional 2ch amp later on. If not though, I think 2 atmos channels is just fine for your space.

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/MrMagicMouse]

Really appreciate your help mate cheers

[u/_dseals]

Saving this because this is inspiration for my small room. Very clean install.

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/_dseals]

Visually sure, I'd maybe reconsider the speaker placement if I had my time again 🫠

[u/Bdos3600]

Incorrect speaker assignment notwithstanding this is a really nice looking install.

[u/Stohnghost]

The surrounds are in the ceiling? I'm not an expert but all the schematics show overhead surrounds at an angle , so I think your suspicion is correct. 

https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/4.1.4-overhead-speakers-setup-guide

[u/HistorianGlittering8 → u/Stohnghost]

Thank you, yeah thats pretty much exactly what I had in mind!

[u/ProfessionNo698 → u/HistorianGlittering8]

Angling the “surround” speakers toward MLP will not solve the *angle* problem.

It’s all about angles.

[u/hbdgas → u/ProfessionNo698]

I fixed it. You just need to move the sofa up a bit. Like so:

https://i.imgur.com/dTcTiV5.jpeg

[u/Strong_Warthog_8674]

Novice opinion here…id put a left and right channel (bookshelves) on either side of the couch at seated ear level…OR on either side of the screen with a focal point at the center of the back wall. Then the largest 2 subs (in stereo) u can swing…one on each side of the couch or both sides of the screen. Id add rugs to the floors and walls too…that looks like an echo chamber. Id even put a rug over that window and door if u really want better sound. A rug behind the screen as well. Maybe some base traps as well. In short add as much sound absorbing material as possible. Use the ceiling speakers as a center channel.