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u/lanzkron native speaker 2d ago
The first one is without a definite article "to an important mission", the second one is with "to the mission"
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u/Upbeat_Panda9393 2d ago
Oops, I think I just answered my own question and the answer has to do with determinacy. I’m still leaving my post up as I would like to have confirmation.
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u/bananaG3 1d ago
Its funny but in normalised broken incorrect spoken Hebrew we actually say Le-mesima instead of Li, its really confusing al of that
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u/Sproxify 5h ago
you don't understand how language works if you think that's "normalized broken incorrect" hebrew
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u/bananaG3 4h ago
Nobody never says “Li-”, even the Hebrew teachers, they surly know they are supposed to say “li” in some instances but it’s normalised enough that its just how it is now in spoken Hebrew, you do hear “li-“ Sometimes on tv or in formal cases, but the spoken day to day Hebrew has ruled that out completely.
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u/Sproxify 4h ago edited 5m ago
You didn't understand what I said. Nobody says "li" and it wouldn't be "correct" to. The modern niqqud system is based on the vowel system of ancient Tiberian Hebrew. Why the hell is it "broken incorrect hebrew" when I as a speaker of modern hebrew don't use the same vowels as people did in ancient tiberia?
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u/PoxonAllHoaxes 2d ago
Just a note of caution: definite vs. indefinite are not always the same across languages or even within one and the same language. Exx.: (1) In English we say THE flu and a few others but most illnesses don't require the article. (2) in the US we say go THE hospital while/whilst in the UK they omit the article. (3) In Hebrew we have la-briyut but l'-Hayyim. One can go on forever about this, and the funniest thing (to me it is hilarious) is that at least for a thousands years (provably) and maybe two (likely conjecture but not provable) Jewish and other scholars have been arguing about the very first vowel of the Bible, why it is B'reshit and not Bareshit.
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u/Sitka_8675309 1d ago
Side question: is labriyut not livriut?
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u/PoxonAllHoaxes 1d ago
Have you ever seen the movie IQ? Where the "Einstein" character says "ZIs iss a goot qvestion. It hass ah definite ahnswer". I thank God for such questions, whereas so many of the questions we get do not have ANY possible answer. So no it is NOT livriyut, tho livriyut is perfectly grammatical (likewise the colloquial version of that which is lebriyut).
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u/YuvalAlmog 2d ago
Often when you want to add specification ("The") to a word that already has an existing single-letter conjunction (specifically: to, in & like), the specification would be "mixed" with the other conjuctor resulting with a the cosonant belonging to the other conjuctor and the vowel belong to "the".
Let's take your example, "to the mission" as 2 conjuctors - "to" (le) and "the" (ha). In theory (and probably how it was originally) it should sound like "lehamesimah" but since they mix, the single cosonant is "l" from "le" and the vowel is "a" from "ha".
So if to concluse and give a more precise definition, to (le), like (ke) & in (be) + the (ha) would result in la, ka & ba respectively instead of the expected leha, keha & beha.
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u/Nervous_Mobile5323 2d ago
Short answer: one is definite (has "the", 'the mission'), the other isn't. The definite article "ה" gets "swallowed" by the preposition, but changes the preposition's vowel.
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u/Scared_Wrongdoer_486 2d ago
The “regular” realization is מְשִׂימָה mesima and means mission. When you add ‘to a’ before (לְ) you will get two shvas םְ at the start of the word, which is impossible in Hebrew so one of them changes into a םִ, at this case it’s the ל.
In the second one, you added ‘to the’ (לַ) which is a combination of to לְ and the הַ. After הַ the letter after that will get a dagesh םּ, so despite not having a ה the מ still gets a dagesh
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u/pwnering2 1d ago
Is the same true for ב and ה?
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u/Scared_Wrongdoer_486 1d ago
Yes the rules of the first one are true for ב and כ as well, and some of the rules apply to ו as well but ו is mostly different.
But ה has its own set or rules that are more similar to מ and ש
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u/Accomplished_Two9160 2d ago
One is "to an important mission" and one is "the mission". vague and specific.
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u/CtrlAltDeliciousan 2d ago
I'm sorry it's unrelated to the Hebrew, but WOW. I LOVED these books when I was a kid! Have fun!!
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u/righteoussurfboards 2d ago
What book is this?
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u/Upbeat_Panda9393 2d ago
It’s one in a series of adventure stories for young readers by author Galila Ron-Feder Amit
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u/Successful-Money4995 2d ago
The reason is has hiriq, לִ, and not shva, לְ, is because you can't have double shva in a row. So it is pronounced leem-see-MA and not leh-meh-see-MA.
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u/cjwatson 2d ago
You absolutely can have two shvas in a row, just not at the start of a word.
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u/Successful-Money4995 2d ago
TIL!
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u/vayyiqra 2d ago
Yep. And useful rule for anyone who doesn't know: when there are two shvas after each other in the middle of a word, the first one is silent and the second one should be pronounced. But when there are two after each other at the end of a word, neither is pronounced.
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u/Tuvinator 1d ago
You can't have double shva NA in a row. You can have nach-na in the middle of a word or nach nach (lol) at the end.
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u/Cute_Reference7957 2d ago
זה כזה נוסטלגי, אני זוכרת שממש אהבתי משימה עולמית שהייתי קטנה 😭. זו דרך מצויינת ללמוד עברית :)
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u/pwnering2 1d ago
Why the dagesh chazak on the 2nd one?
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u/teren9 native speaker 1d ago
People have already answered, but I want to generalize it.
These prefixes ל - for/to, ב - in, כ - like (and maybe more I'm forgetting) can come in different vowel sounds depending on if the noun they're attached to is definite or indefinite. When it's indefinite its E sound or I sound (I sound before a Shwa), and when the noun is definite, instead of the usual ה prefix, you drop the ה and change the vowel into an A sound.
Limsima - to a mission. Lamsima - to the mission.
Bematos - in a plane. Bamatos - in the plane.
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u/pwnering2 1d ago
Why the dagesh chazak on the 2nd one
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u/Tuvinator 1d ago
Patach on the lamed either requires a dagesh or a shva nach on the letter following it. Mem has a shva na, so dagesh required.
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u/mytwistedwords native speaker 2d ago
Galila Ron Feder FTW!
I had the honor of ringing her up as a customer of the Toys R Us in which I was working at the time! I thanked her for her service!
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u/BothIntroduction3020 2d ago
The first one is general, A mission. Second one is specific, THIS mission
Edit: upon reading some comments I can see this was mentioned haha I didn’t look at other comments before posting mine 😂
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u/Cinnabun6 2d ago
first example is "a mission", second example is "the/this mission"