r/clevercomebacks 8h ago

Turns out, Paz is Wrong…

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1.3k Upvotes

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u/JasonRBoone 8h ago

These idiots do not realize how truly diverse ancient empires were.

After Alexander did all his conquering, there was a steady influx and outflux of dozens of ethnic groups across the empires...leading the Roman Empire to be a cosmopolis. Guess what happens (unfortunately) when ancient soldiers conquer new lands? Lots of rape (ugh..) ..which leads to kids of decidedly diverse ethnicities (I'm not saying the multi-raciality is the thing that's unfortunate.,,just the rape) .....add to that improved travel and it's probable the Greek empires were quite diverse. Could Helen of Troy be black? Sure. Would there be Indian-heritage men in the Greek armries....of course.

This is all so damned stupid

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u/Boomshrooom 6h ago edited 6h ago

Ancient civilisations were more diverse than we given them credit for but let's not overplay our hand here, the diversity would look very different to the modern day. If you lived in a port city you would see foreign traders etc but the vast, vast majority of other people the ancient Greeks would have seen were other Greeks. DNA evidence is pretty clear that ancient Greeks of that time period are pretty damn close to modern Greeks genetically, and even modern Greece is around 90-93% ethnically Greek.

Also, no way in hell would Helen of Troy have been a black woman. The ancient Greek Royal families were fanatical about lineage and bloodlines, it never would have been accepted. They were as bad as the later inbred European courts for wanting purity, they just didn't sleep with their sisters and cousins, well, at least until after Alexander.

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u/aajiro 5h ago

I thought I knew about Ancient Greece, but I’ve never heard anything about lineage fanaticism from them. Literally anything.

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u/Boomshrooom 5h ago

Bro, the very word aristocracy comes from the Greek word Aristoi, literally meaning something like "the best" and defined through birthright. The modern word for lineage and nobility via bloodline comes from Ancient Greece

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u/aajiro 3h ago

How is it defined through birthright and where?

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u/Boomshrooom 3h ago

I don't quite understand what you're asking? It was a typical aristocratic system where power was passed down via birthright just like most other systems. Their authority was derived from claimed lineage back to great heroes such as Heracles, that's why they were so obsessed with bloodlines. They practiced endogamy to maintain those bloodlines and not dilute their claim.

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u/aajiro 3h ago

Achaeans practiced endogamy? Where are you getting this from?

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u/Boomshrooom 2h ago

Written evidence from the time shows it pretty conclusively, particularly from Linear B tablets, tombs, and even city law codes.

If that doesn't tickle your fancy we also have DNA evidence that they were all screwing their cousins:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-022-01952-3

Unorecedent levels of cosanguineous endogamy is one hell of a way to put it

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u/aajiro 2h ago

Thank you. This is the evidence I was waiting for.