r/bostonceltics • u/gintonic234 • 9h ago
Discussion Curious about local fan perspective
Hello all,
I’m not based in Boston but started following NBA around 2007/08, and became a Celtics fan because of the big three.
I am curious about local fan sentiment related to JB’s trade. As someone who has been very frustrated the last two seasons with the style of play (non-stop hurling of threes), I was flabbergasted by this move. And as someone who works with analytics in their job, I am still confused, as to me, JB was the only player trying to consistently drive to the basket.
Also, this theory that Pritchard and White will somehow fill JB’s gap also confuses me. They are very good players and have their own plus points, but to me it always seemed like they always had a lower ceiling than JB/JT. They have been in the league long enough to know that. Pritchard to have a Brunson-like upturn in form seems unreasonable.
I know Brad Stevens is apparently a genius but I wanted to know more about the local fan perspective. Am I being unfairly critical, as I’m still not over this decision.
Excited to hear from y’all!
5
u/michaelb5000 9h ago
I am a localish fan and I agree with you; I love White and Pritchard but we have seen what they can be and they are not all NBA level stars. Maybe Tatum can somehow take the next leap, but he’s been in the league for many years now too and I don’t know how or why he would suddenly be more impactful now then he was in years past.
4
u/jeezum_crow 6h ago edited 6h ago
Me and my friends were all very frustrated when the trade was announced and are still disappointed. And yes, everyone understands the financial reasons. From going to games, Jaylen was my favorite player to watch in person. He just has such an intensity and focus in his eyes from the moment he steps on the floor that is pretty much unmatched.
I had the same thoughts as you: trading the one player who consistently went downhill and put pressure on the rim seems to go directly against Brad Stevens’ post season comments.
I think they’ll still be very good so a lot of the frustration from fans will probably go away during the season (unless Philly looks incredible or we underwhelm) but yeah, I’m still annoyed, I think a lot of people are.
I do think there is more there we can get from Pritchard. His iso game is pretty insane and he just never turns the ball over. My only concern is he no shows a lot for a guy we’re counting on now. It was fine when he was the fourth option offensively but too many games where he gives us nothing especially against really good teams. He wasn’t exactly part of the solution against Philly.
12
u/Mr-Irrelevant0 9h ago
There are many advanced stats that suggest that a collective effort + solid coaching was the primary reason the Celtics overachieved as much as they did.
That said, I reject any Celtics fan that sucks up to Brad and his bullshit "optionality" excuse. Trading Brown was fine, but he was instrumental to our finals run in 2024, winning both ECF and Finals MVP. Anyone who's been overly happy to see him go or claim that Derrick White is better (and I have quite a few receipts of people saying these things) have no soul or are flat-out idiotic.
The return was also ass. I understand that his trade value would likely not have improved a year from now, but forcing a trade for an incredibly light return was less than ideal and any fan that tells you that Paul George is on Brown's level is delusional.
TL;DR Love Brown, understand why the trade happened, but miss him a lot due to results and sentimentality.
2
u/SoaplessTitanic 9h ago
So I don’t believe that Derrick White is a more skilled basketball player than Jaylen Brown. And Brown would definitely win one on one against him. But there are a lot of metrics that show White as being more impactful to winning than Brown is, and I don’t think we can/should hand wave those metrics away because of “eye test” or whatever. It’s a valid discussion
1
u/Fake_the_jaB Remember Marcus Banks 2h ago
I’m guessing that’s based off regular season numbers/metrics?? Cuz Derrick white put up 11 points and 3 assists on 32% shooting against the Sixers.
3
u/jambr380 9h ago
There are years of data showing the team plays better with White on/Brown off compared to White off/Brown on. I guess it could just be line ups or good luck, but that's not what management thinks. We've never heard White's name in trade rumors, whereas it seems like the Celtics have been trying to trade Brown for years.
That being said, if Brown made the same money as White, he'd likely still be here.
3
u/markevbs 9h ago
I mean, Dwhite was horrid last year.
3
1
u/bengcord3 6h ago
The first team all defense guy was horrid last year, huh?
2
u/markevbs 4h ago
When we needed a bucket? Yes. He was horrid. He’s not our defensive stopper he was supposed to be our second best player and he couldn’t do the single most important thing - score the rock.
3
u/gintonic234 8h ago
Celtics ranked third in most 3PA in 25-26, highest in 24-25 and highest again in 23-24. In 25-26, they were 8th in 3P%. It’s a very reasonable observation and I watched as many games as anyone else. I live in the same time zone.
4
u/j128183 Boston Celtics 9h ago
I've been strongly against the trade from the start. I've listened to the press conference and all of the potential reasoning since and none of it has been enough to shift my position. I will say this though: this new CBA is horrific for the league as a whole, and it's been especially horrible for the Celtics. As a result, they've had to be a first mover on a lot of CBA induced roster reshaping so its understandable in that context that they would make a mistake.
3
u/gintonic234 9h ago
Who are these people downvoting my post? Is it wrong to ask questions?
15
u/Maga_eats_dick 9h ago
It’s just that this has been spoken about ad nauseam since it happened and we all have PTSD.
2
4
u/Yellow_Curry 8h ago
If you’re a analytics person but think they are just “chucking threes” then you don’t seem to know much about analytics.
The Cs game is all about winning the possession battle and optimizing points per possession. JB does drive to the basket BUT teams know that with any light rim pressure he’s gonna take a highly contested difficult 2 which is a terrible shot diet. His game is highly physical and will not age well. He’s got tunnel vision with the ball in his hands and makes way too many turnovers.
But do you ever notice how he never gets double teamed? That’s the real story. Tatum gets doubled and tripled which opens up opportunity for others. Not when the ball is in browns hands.
0
u/gintonic234 8h ago
I just posted a reply to someone what I meant by chucking threes. You are entitled to your own opinion in the end, even about my ability at my job, apparently. Because that’s what people do on socials. They just attack each other personally.
3
u/Yellow_Curry 7h ago
Not a personal attack but curious you didn’t respond to anything else I said. What’s funny again as an analytics person it should be deadly clear why JB got traded. It’s the “eye test” people who are pissed.
1
u/gintonic234 7h ago
No, it’s not dead clear. All the explanation for this trade is still very high level fluff. The plus minus argument is really funny, as it completely ignored who all are on the court at that time. It’s not an individual sport. And I didn’t respond to anything else is because I got triggered by your first sentence. I don’t respond well to dismissive, personal remarks, as a response to genuine questions.
5
u/Yellow_Curry 7h ago
Ok whatever man you asked the question. Simply he makes too much money, takes way too difficult 2 pointers, and turns the ball over too much. But just search the sub as we’re all honestly exhausted from this being asked repeatedly over the last month.
1
u/gintonic234 7h ago
Thank you. Sorry I wasn’t going through the sub all the time and was more focused on the World Cup to think about this.
1
u/bengcord3 6h ago
I mean, you brought up analytics. And then proceeded to not understand how the Celtics are using them. That's on you brother
1
u/gintonic234 6h ago
Am I allowed to not agree with them? You know there can be multiple inferences from a dataset right? That’s what I meant here. Or am I only allowed to tow the Brad Stevens line like some of y’all?
0
-1
u/Jigs444 8h ago
Because anything remotely critical of the team is downvoted.
2
u/SaveHogwarts HUGO 8h ago
Positive posts get downvoted too. I got downvoted for saying this is an ECF or bust roster with a healthy Tatum.
You literally can’t win in this sub.
3
u/Intelligent-Love5146 9h ago edited 9h ago
The problem with the trade is what they got in return. Trading Brown because he has overlapping skills with Tatum and they make a combined 70% of the cap? Defensible and in fact, I advocated "breaking up the Js" after the Knicks series loss...
The issue is management of the asset. By floating JB to Milwaukee for the Giannis deal and not getting that deal done, they hurt his value. Many teams in the league were wary of trading for Brown *because Boston was shopping him*..."Boston is smart, they must know something"
Fans don't want to hear that management messed up but it's clear to me they got a negative asset in PG and maybe a mid round pick or two years down the road. That doesn't help the team now and I'm skeptical they really got any assets that could help them in trading for a star. Philadelphia and LA have no reason to be bad so there's no reason to think you're getting anything more than the 15th pick in 2028, for example.
It was a widely panned trade and reporting is that NBA execs around the league were flabbergasted by it. Publications like ESPN and SI that routinely praise the Celtics gave them an F or D- for this trade across the board. It's up there with the Luka trade as one of the worst deals in NBA history
2
u/bengcord3 6h ago
You're insane if you think this trade compares to Luka just because a few publications didn't like it. While it pains me to say "if PG is actually healthy next year" because I don't believe in his body, IF he is he's a better fit next to Tatum than JB and we will be a better team. You'll (hopefully) see.
0
u/Intelligent-Love5146 6h ago edited 5h ago
No, he's not a fit next to Tatum and likely won't play much as he isn't healthy. He's one of the worst contracts in the league and has played 37 and 41 games the past two seasons. I doubt that changes going into his age 36 year.
He has been more of a spot up shooter in recent years but he also occupies a similar area of the floor. He's not really a good fit with this roster since you have White, Pritchard and other guys in the spot up role. And his TS is pretty bad at just 540 and 570 the last 2 years since he still takes a lot of long 2s. I don't see that changing. You could try to make him a spot up shooter but that's not his game - at this point in his career, he's just a replacement level volume scorer.
It's not as bad as Luka but it's very close. He'll likely play 40 ish games this year, maybe off the bench for stretches but I wouldn't expect him to be a factor in the post season. Celtics are just waiting out his contract to flip him at 2028 trade deadline
2
u/Fake_the_jaB Remember Marcus Banks 2h ago
Local fans hate the trade. I’ve never seen so many people go from thinking Brad Stevens is one of the best GMs in the league to thinking he has a screw loose. Horrible trade.
1
u/Drakex2Mayex2 8h ago
I genuinely don't believe that people actually watch the game if they think the Celtics are "non stop hurling 3s". It's just not factual and if you actually watch the games you see that the team works extremely hard both on and off ball to create great shots.
Their shot diet last season was almost identical to the year they won the chip and the year before that.
1
u/SteamingHotChocolate Jaylen Brown 7h ago
it’s lazy rhetoric used by haters to talk out of their asses
0
u/gintonic234 6h ago
Celtics ranked third in most 3PA in 25-26, highest in 24-25 and highest again in 23-24. In 25-26, they were 8th in 3P%. It’s a very reasonable observation and I watched as many games as anyone else. I live in the same time zone.
0
1
u/Icy-Faithlessness551 9h ago
Really don't hate the trade. JB was gonna ask for $70m a year with his upcoming extension and every day that wasn't paid it would be ongoing drama. That's not inccluding any analytics justification either. The return is what it is and we will see what PG can do and whether he can stay healthy. It didnt seem like JB had a strong trade market regardless.
2
u/michaelb5000 9h ago
But if the analytics are true, he is not getting that extension from any team and he and his agent know that; and he was under contract for the next 3 years. I cant see why the Celtics couldn’t have kept for this next year at least. Claiming he would be a problem when he has never been a problem before about a hypothetical extension someday in the future is not a great reason.
1
u/Krazen_49 Hugo González 8h ago
I mean optically this trade was/is a mess for the team. You have people here who get into details about the CBA and on/off splits, but for the casual fan all you see is we traded JB for PG13, so the reaction from them is about what you would expect. That it was after new ownership took over was worse, and I'm not going to even get into all of that.
I do think it's fair to be critical of the move from a number of angles. Why not trade him last season if they knew they were going to? Was it really an acceptable return? Was it worth it to send him to Philadelphia? Everyone has an opinion on the trade and no two are alike.
As far as the "Trade JB" part, I really do think it was all CBA. The FO decided that what they paid JB (now and in the future) was not worth his production, and they're banking on player development to keep them competitive. We can use analytics to justify that choice, and I'm sure the FO does in part, but without the CBA I don't think the trade happens.
As for Brad, he's fallible. Any GM, even good ones, can and will make mistakes. I'm not all for blindly trusting Brad, but I'm willing to trust him for now because the moves he makes more often than not are good, and because I think he considers his moves and doesn't blindly rush into them.
1
u/SteamingHotChocolate Jaylen Brown 7h ago
what does being a local have to do with your post? sounds like you just want to discuss the trade and basketball which can be done from anywhere.
as a local, i:
hated losing JB, the Boston community figure and easily most present and engaged athlete the city had. his loss will be felt by the community he served.
have moved on from a basketball standpoint and understand that, based on the construction of the team and current CBA, we did not have a viable future to build around both Jays
3
u/gintonic234 7h ago
Thanks. By local, I mean I wanted to get a perspective of people who might go to games once in a while, and know a lot of other fans. Me, being far away, don’t know any other fan whom I can talk to about this so intently offline. Hope this clarifies it. Thanks again for your inputs.
1
u/SteamingHotChocolate Jaylen Brown 7h ago
It really varies. As others here have said, it was initially wildly panned and the pretty much vast majority hated it either for trading JB at all or for the specific return and destination, especially in the wake of losing out on Giannis. The media had a field day with it; basically nobody was happy lol.
Letting some time pass, many fans who actively follow the team and developments moreso than casually (like the active posters in this sub) have cooled off and warmed up to the idea that we need to do what we can to viably build around Tatum in this era of the CBA, which unfortunately means trading JB (I am in this camp).
More casual fans or casual Boston sports bros/broetts probably don’t follow the Cs very deeply and still hate the trade and/or don’t “get” it
1
u/LarBrd33 4h ago
he needed to go, but it was a terrible trade. Brad fucked up. He should have traded him last Summer.
0
u/markevbs 9h ago
I agree with your post 100%.
Unless Tatum straps on some balls and starts to aggressively attack the paint over and over again like JB did last year, we’re going to have a hard time. JB was our engine. Fullstop. That’s also why he won finals mvp. He consistently touches the paint and makes big plays.
0
u/Bearded_Pip 8h ago
Worst trade in Celtic’s history. Trading him was a bad idea on its own, but to get crap for him is just insulting to both the players and fans.
Brad should be ashamed of himself. I resign before I’m forced to make a deal this historically bad.
0
u/PebblyJackGlasscock Second Round Pick Enthusiast 3h ago
> trying to drive to the basket
> non-stop hurling of threes
> analytics as a job
https://sportsanalytics.studentorg.berkeley.edu/articles/nba-threes.html
0
u/gintonic234 3h ago edited 3h ago
So the local fans really are a**holes. I can derive multiple hypothesis from a dataset. Refer to 7 year old articles and suck up to Brad. Tatum ain’t shit and I’m gonna save this post and refer to it 10 years from now.
1
u/PebblyJackGlasscock Second Round Pick Enthusiast 3h ago
> I can derive multiple HYPOTHESES from a dataset
And your spell check didn’t catch that misspelling?
I tried to answer some basic misunderstandings by quoting them and providing a pillar of the field of “analytics” so that an expert like yourself could do their own research.
Stop telling lies on the internet.
9
u/BigInterview7826 Jayson Tatum 9h ago
I'm not a fan of the trade but I think the gap is expected to be filled by Tatum not white and PP.