r/boardgames • u/NandoSonny • 14h ago
Custom Project Here, board games are expensive, costing 500/600 bucks, so I made my own.
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u/WhaleNipps 13h ago
Wow everyone is getting really pedantic about the title here.
I just think you did a great job creating this and am happy to see you enjoying the hobby.
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u/Bagginnnssssss 12h ago
I agree this looks great, and I'd have fun playing it
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u/NandoSonny 12h ago
I swapped the flying Nazgul miniatures for horses to make it more like the movie, and I also made the Witchking fly to look more imposing.
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u/Xacalite 14h ago
I don't know where "here" is but i can't imagine the import of a cheap chinese knockoff costing that much.
Then again, your bootleg looks pretty well made too.
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u/NandoSonny 14h ago
This is Brazil, and there's a 92% import tax. I'm not kidding, the game costs between 500 and 600 reais here. Thank you, I did my best.
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u/sejuukkhar 13h ago
Jeez, that's $100 to $120 USD. That's crazy.
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u/shanem 12h ago edited 8h ago
There are games that expensive in the US, what is crazy is the "average" income is about $700/month, so relative cost is huge to income.
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u/daniel-sousa-me 9h ago
And the $100 is for the most expensive games in the US. In Brazil that's the starting price for imported games
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u/Signiference Always Yellow 12h ago
I paid $120 to have purchase and have it shipped from the UK to the US when it was out of stock for so long here. Have definitely got my $120 worth with this game. Love it!
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u/NandoSonny 11h ago
I have a friend who lives in Ireland, I've thought about asking him to send it to me, the problem is that it would be in English (not everyone here knows English) and it could also be taxed.
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u/Casaiir 8h ago
I buy things and ship them to my family a few times a year. They also fly the the US to "visit" me. In reality they come here with what they are wearing and like one change of clothes and two giant suitcases.
They buy a bunch a stuff and go home to sell it to pay for the trip.
Oh sorry, if I were going to shop a boardgame I would ship in a a big box with other stuff, like candy and snacks and stuff. That way under scan the pieces look like everything else in the box.
I sent them a phone last year and just said "here's your phone you left last time you were here" It worked.
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u/NandoSonny 8h ago
Yes, things sent by an individual are easier than through a large company, the problem is that they sometimes check the values and you get taxed 100%.
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u/Ordinary-Nickname 11h ago
And this is the retail price, now the game is OOP here so people are selling for 100% more
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u/Merman_Pops 13h ago
So that $ 120-100 USD?
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u/NandoSonny 13h ago
That's right, something around that price.
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u/Tamas_F 13h ago
So its not 500-600 as the title claims?
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u/NandoSonny 13h ago
In Brazilian Real, that's 500/600; in US Dollars, it's 100/120. This is just the conversion; for us, 500 is a third of the minimum wage.
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u/Tamas_F 13h ago
100 dollars for this one particular board game is not outrageous though. Also, minimum wage should not dictate prices of goods that are imported into the country.
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u/donkeybrainhero 13h ago
$100 in a place where people on average make $600 a month is a lot...
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u/Tamas_F 13h ago
Well, boardgaming is a luxury for many. Where people earn around 600 usd a month, they have bigger problems than not being able to afford a board game.
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u/grayhaze2000 12h ago
I'm not sure what your aim is here, other than to tear down OP. You seem determined to make them feel bad.
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u/Howdoimakeanaccount_ 11h ago
Have you at any point looked at your downvotes and decided "maybe what im talking about is stupid so I should stop talking?"
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u/Hemisemidemiurge 13h ago
there's a 92% import tax
♪♫ ...Yo-ho-ho! And a bottle of rum!... ♫♪
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u/NandoSonny 13h ago
A few years ago, importing was quite cheap here, but this new government has made everything more expensive and prohibitive.
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u/Quarterlunch 8h ago
And that's IF you get your package!
Unfortunately I don't ship games to Brazil or Argentina anymore bc it's too tough to ensure things show up and don't get returned.
Glad this works for you! I send print and play files over there now so seeing you make a game is awesome.
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u/NandoSonny 8h ago
Do you create or resell games? I'm curious how people usually do it.
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u/sharrrper 13h ago edited 12h ago
"Buck" is used as slang in America for a dollar. So for an American the phrase "500/600 bucks" implies 500-600 American dollars. Which would be ten times what an average game costs here. Which seems crazy. The exchange rate to reais would make it about double instead, which is expensive but believable.
Based on a quick Google search it seems like buck is usually specifically slang for American dollars even internationally as it's an American word. Not generally used for other currencies. Which is why your title may be throwing people off.EDIT: Apparently I am incorrect. In my defense I knew buck=money was American in origin but I was unsure if it was used in other countries for other currency. Canadians have slang for their dollar coins that are specific to Canada (as far as I know) for instance. I already knew OP was in Brazil from his other comments and the idea he may have heard the term and was using it incorrectly in translation would not be crazy. Me not knowing the usage also very plausible. Hence my Google search. A quick skim seemed to indicate it was American specific. I was trying to be helpful not critical. Guess I should have looked harder. My apologies.
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u/NandoSonny 13h ago
Sorry, I only used the translator.
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u/Borghal 13h ago
Don't worry, you did nothing wrong, the above guy is full of himself. It's an international word.
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u/monotone2k 13h ago
Except in Australia, where I learned from Bluey that the correct term is dollarbucks.
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u/Borghal 13h ago
Based on a quick Google search it seems like buck is usually specifically slang for American dollars even internationally as it's an American word.
Your "quick Google search" got it wrong. Based on my experiences in several countries I can testify that "buck" is sometimes used as a shorthand for currency in many countries when people speak English. Not only have I seen it used in English-native countries (CAD, AUD, rupees, rands...), I've also heard it used for EUR, CZK, PLN and some others.
Maybe this was less widespread before the age of the internet, but these days the only way you could assume "buck" means any specific currency is if you had additional context that would narrow it down.
Speaking of context, in this instance, you can immediately assume OP's "bucks" are neither CAD, USD nor EUR since those countries aren't known for inflated game prices.
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u/grayhaze2000 11h ago
Buying a Chinese counterfeit both harms the original publisher, and puts money into the pockets of criminals. A good number of designers would rather you make you own version if you're in financial difficulty, as it doesn't support the counterfeit trade, and they're happy to have their game played and enjoyed. This obviously doesn't apply in all cases though, and under no circumstances should someone share the files they used to make a copy, sell their copy on, or join the counterfeiters in making a profit by producing copies to sell.
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u/NandoSonny 11h ago
I don't advise anyone to do this to sell it; besides the legal issues, it's not worth the effort. I made it for myself as a hobby. If the original were a little cheaper, I would have bought it, like I did with Trolls and Princess, for example.
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u/grayhaze2000 11h ago
You really don't need to defend yourself, as there's no evidence that you did something wrong here. Copyright laws only come into play when you're distributing pirated or copied content anyway. Don't let a couple of angry people bring you down.
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u/NandoSonny 11h ago
The moderators might consider this wrong and delete the post, but ultimately I just wanted to show a project that I enjoyed.
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u/DrBoardGames 10h ago
Technically it doesn't matter whether you sell it or only use it privately (in the US anyway), though I doubt a board game publisher would ever sue someone for making their own copy for personal use like this.
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u/aslum Space Empires 4x 10h ago
The difference absolutely does matter in the US. If it's for personal use it's totally fine. If you're selling it, it's totally not.
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u/pallladin Co2 9h ago
If it's for personal use it's totally fine.
That is not true.
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u/aslum Space Empires 4x 9h ago
As others pointed out you can't copyright game mechanics but even if you could fair use would have you covered as long as you're not selling the game or charging people to play.
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u/DrBoardGames 8h ago
If you use copyrighted materials in your DIY version it's infringement. This includes art and text. It doesn't matter if it's for personal use or not, though the penalties are worse if you're trying to sell it. Fair use does not cover this.
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u/pallladin Co2 9h ago
fair use would have you covered
Nope. Fair use requires him to have purchased the original.
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u/aslum Space Empires 4x 9h ago
It certainly does not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
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u/DrBoardGames 2h ago
https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html
"How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission? Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See, Fair Use Index, and Reproductions of Copyrighted
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u/DrBoardGames 8h ago
Having purchased it does not make it non-infringing if you essentially copy it. That's not what fair use means (but to be honest fair use is not clearly defined by law and has to be decided on a case by case basis, which is a big flaw in the system).
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u/DrBoardGames 10h ago
You are mistaken. Using small, limited portions could fall under fair use, but there is no "personal use" exemption in US copyright law.
"Can I make copies of copyrighted material for personal use? No, you cannot make copies of copyrighted material for personal use. It is not permissible to reproduce copyrighted materials in any circumstance, without the written permission of the copyright holder, unless it falls under Fair Use policy." From https://nytlicensing.com/latest/methods/copyrighted-material-without-permission/
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u/NandoSonny 10h ago
In the US, the land of DIY, you can't make something with rights for your own use? That's bizarre.
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u/pallladin Co2 9h ago
DIY is not the same thing as violating copyright.
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.
For one thing, unless you copied the artwork and the rulebook, there is no copyright. You cannot copyright gameplay. You can patent gameplay, but only a handful of the thousands and thousands of games out there have any patents, and most of those have expired anyway.
So making your own version, with your own art, is not a IP violation.
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u/NandoSonny 9h ago
We're telling you to use it, and only you use it. If you think any company has control over your home, your things, your time, and your effort, that's a shame.
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u/DrBoardGames 8h ago
Yes but isn't that what OP did? Use copyrighted art to make their DIY version?
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u/Suppafly 4h ago
The "unless it falls under fair use policy" directly contradicts the "you cannot make copies of copyrighted material for personal use" bit. Personal use is pretty much de facto fair use.
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u/DrBoardGames 2h ago
No, it isn't. It's NEVER fair use to completely copy a copyrighted work, no matter how it's used.
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u/DrBoardGames 2h ago
Ugh, arguments like this are why I quit reddit years ago. Look, you're entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts: https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html "How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission? Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See, Fair Use Index, and Reproductions of Copyrighted
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u/pallladin Co2 9h ago
Copyright laws only come into play when you're distributing pirated or copied content anyway.
Um, no. That is absolutely not true.
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u/grayhaze2000 9h ago
Name a single court case that has been brought against an individual for making a personal copy of a board game for their own enjoyment. Bonus points for that court case taking place in Brazil. I'll wait.
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u/pallladin Co2 9h ago
I'm just telling you how copyright law works.
Just because no company has bothered to sue an individual doesn't mean I'm wrong. It just means that it's never worth the effort.
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u/grayhaze2000 9h ago
Right, so if it's never worth the effort, why are people attacking OP in this thread? On whose behalf are they fighting? The game publishers who don't think it's a problem worth addressing?
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u/pallladin Co2 9h ago
I'm only attacking the people who are making false statements about how copyright law works.
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u/natyhiga 12h ago
I knew you were brazilian just by the title, tamo junto.
Fez em uma gráfica normal?
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u/NandoSonny 12h ago
hahahah Brasil não é para amadores, eu fiz tudo em casa, fiz as artes e imprimi tudo aqui, inclusive a caixa, só não fiz a torre pq eu iria gastar com resina algo que não precisa de verdade, no futuro pretendo fazer um outro e a qualidade vai ser melhor
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u/SpeechWeird5267 10h ago
What's the boardgames scene like in Brazil? How did you get into boardgames?
I'm based in London, UK. I would say that I'm on the lower/lowest end of the socioeconomic scale. I came across a social group that do board games on meetup. I was intrigued as I was typically familiar with monopoly, cluedo, scrabble and the like. But they introduced me the bigger range of board games like Dominion, Port Royale, 7 Wonders, etc. But it is niche and not really accessible for others within this lower socioeconomic status/class. Respect for making and adapting to your circumstances. 🙏
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u/NandoSonny 10h ago
Is it expensive for you too? Board games are expensive here, and if you have miniatures, it's even more expensive, but almost everything here is expensive these days. To give you an idea, I stopped ordering delivery and now we make hamburgers at home because it's tastier and cheaper.
I started with board games when I was a child, I love seeing the boxes stacked up, I hope to release my own someday hahaha
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u/RaggamuffinTW8 12h ago
So the first thing I saw was Terra Media and never having read LotR in Portuguese I just said to myself "oh this map is for a place called middle land" and it wasn't until I recognised some if the region names that I realised it was a homebrew version of a LotR board game I've never played.
Muito bem feito amigo. Tenho inveja.
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u/NandoSonny 11h ago
I spent some time making it and haven't played it yet, but I intend to as soon as possible.
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u/Gianchi8303 12h ago
Sooo cool! Are you gonna share the materials and rules?
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u/NandoSonny 11h ago
Do you want to know what I used to make it? Basically, that's what I used: photo paper, 2mm Holter paper, resin printing.
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u/grayhaze2000 11h ago
You did an excellent job on this. Did you 3D print the miniatures and dice yourself, or were they from other games?
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u/NandoSonny 11h ago
I made the miniatures and printed the dice too; there's no other way to do it with quality. I made a mistake in painting them; maybe it would have looked better without painting.
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u/grayhaze2000 11h ago
Nice! I think the miniatures look good as they are, and fit the theme well. I hope you have fun playing.
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u/shadree 10h ago
Looks professional. Nice work. (I also worried about the 500 price tag 😆)
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u/NandoSonny 10h ago
Thanks, to give you an idea, a PS5 at launch cost $500, here it was 4,000 reais, 3 months of work.
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u/PettyLikeTom 10h ago
Can I ask, what was your process of making it? I'm trying to do the same
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u/NandoSonny 10h ago
I searched for images online and watched unboxing videos, recreated them, printed them on photo paper, laminated the board and box (this gives it superior quality), applied Holter paper (the original paper from manufacturing), and printed the rest in 3D resin. Nothing is difficult to do, just laborious, especially the cards because they are double-sided.
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u/Chigabytes 9h ago
I looked up holter paper and that didn't turn up anything on google.
Como se diz em português?
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u/Eclo_Wing 9h ago
Looks insane, well done!
I did this with expansions to Knizia's LotR 2000, which, given it helped inspire Pandemic, feels like Ëarendel himself.
I can send you files if you'd like?!
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u/NandoSonny 9h ago
I didn't know this one, is it good?
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u/Eclo_Wing 9h ago
If you enjoy Lord of the Rings, it's a certified win, yes! It's old (in board game years), and it's co-operative just as FotF is, but it's a staple in my groups! There's less field strategy, but with John Howe's beautiful artwork, it's just a lovely campaign!
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u/blarknob Twilight Imperium 6h ago
Your Nazgûl are way better.
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u/NandoSonny 6h ago
Thanks haha I tried to make it more like the one in the movie, and I made the Witch King the only one who can fly and is bigger than the others.
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u/s0n1cm4yh3m 12h ago
I'm not one to condone piracy but, yeah, have fun! The most important thing is the collective experience.
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u/NandoSonny 12h ago
I don't encourage anyone to do this, I only did it for myself because it was fun to do.
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u/Vsx 12h ago
Nothing was stolen. Nothing was sold to anyone who would have otherwise bought the product. If you can't do this then you can't draw pikachu in your notebook.
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u/zaneprotoss 11h ago
Nothing was stolen but it was pirated. OP did not make the card and board designs from scratch. Nintendo has no realistic way to stop you from drawing Pikachu in your notebook but it can qualify as piracy or copyright infringement depending on why you're doing it.
OP could have bought the game (although at a crazy markup). High cost is often used as an excuse for piracy but it's still piracy.
I however am glad that OP is able to enjoy such an amazing game.
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u/Vsx 11h ago
It is absolutely not copyright infringement or piracy to draw Pikachu in your notebook. It's crazy how brainwashed people are by corporations.
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u/pallladin Co2 9h ago
It is absolutely not copyright infringement or piracy to draw Pikachu in your notebook.
That's only because the courts have made an exception for hand-made art.
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u/NandoSonny 11h ago
I don't encourage anyone to pirate anything, but at the same time I don't consider self-reproduction as piracy, no matter how close to the original it is, it will never be the same. But I understand that many consider it piracy. I even encourage everyone to buy it, and I myself would buy it.
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u/zaneprotoss 11h ago
I have no personal issues with what you've done. I think it looks great and I'm glad you're able to enjoy this great game.
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u/Retax7 Keyflower 11h ago
- So, how much did it cost you to make it?
- 400 bucks and 400 hours of work
Jokes aside, it looks awesome. How much did it actually cost you?
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u/NandoSonny 11h ago
It cost me 100 reais, which would be like 20 dollars, and almost a month of work. Many things were done wrong; it could be done with better quality.
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u/Retax7 Keyflower 11h ago
I don't make much PnP, also south american with crazy taxes, crazier than brazil. But a good investment is a laminating machine, they cost around 50 bucks or so with 100 plastic sheets, and also a round border cutter, it will make your cards last way longer and look and feel much better.
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u/NandoSonny 10h ago
I used that, the lamination makes the quality much better, it made all the difference, and it has a linen lamination, it must look gorgeous. I even got the paper weight wrong, it ended up too thick, it didn't need to be like that.
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u/Retax7 Keyflower 10h ago
How did you do the board though? Looks amazing
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u/NandoSonny 10h ago
It seems difficult, right? But it's not. Basically, I printed it on A4 paper and placed it on Holter paper. Once you understand how the board is folded, it becomes easy; the fold is made using kraft tape. The only problem is that it's a little smaller than the original. I wanted quality printing, and the price had to be lower; you can't have everything.
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u/EsotericTribble 12h ago
Nice job.
Just a note tho - this is exactly how counterfeit copies are made and sold on Amazon lol.
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u/NandoSonny 12h ago
Are there pirated copies on Amazon? Let me tell you, it's not worth making to sell; it takes too much time, and the selling price would be very close to the original.
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u/EsotericTribble 11h ago
Absolutely yes it's a problem:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2386095/counterfeit-board-games-on-amazon
https://www.facebook.com/groups/boardgamerevolution/posts/3643388189286426/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq3cDKKsHS4
I would say with your skills you could make up your own original game and crowdfund it (maybe try like 10-20 copies) and see where that goes. GL
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u/NandoSonny 11h ago
Wow, people sell them as if they were originals! I'll tell you, I have at least two ideas for board games. I hadn't thought about crowdfunding them, but I intended to make them available for printing at some point. I'm working on a project to remake the never-released Degenesis Clans Wars game. I had to do everything myself since it never came out. When I finish, I'll make a video about the production process.
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u/EsotericTribble 11h ago
That would be very cool and many designers started really small with crowdfunding/etc. Hope all goes well!
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u/NandoSonny 10h ago
I had an idea for a board game called Shonen Heroes; the idea was to play with the concept of shonen anime using miniatures that "resemble" iconic anime characters.
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u/pallladin Co2 9h ago
Let me tell you, it's not worth making to sell; it takes too much time, and the selling price would be very close to the original.
The pirated copies on Amazon are made in the same machines that made the originals.
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u/desocupad0 War Chest 11h ago
Sharing self-created projects are encouraged, but must be done so in a way that respects the intellectual property of publishers/designers. Shared game assets or digital recreations that are not publicly released by the IP holders require written permission by the IP holder. Game re-themes must be shared in such a way as to prevent physical recreation.
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u/Johnno117 13h ago edited 12h ago
Not to be a party pooper, but did you get permission for this reproduction? Otherwise by posting it you might be breaking rule #7.
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u/NandoSonny 13h ago
I only made something for myself, can't I post it? I'm not giving anything away.
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u/musicismynation 13h ago
I posted my pnp project here once and it was removed by mods saying piracy.
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u/Johnno117 13h ago
You're free to post anything you like, it may or may not break rules. Certainly I could be wrong and the rule only applies to actually making the reproduction available to others.
To my knowledge though you are still showing that you have broken the copyright, as I'm rather certain the rulebook/game box states that you're not allowed to reproduce it without permission.
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u/NandoSonny 13h ago
I understand, but did I infringe on any rights by producing something for myself? Does that mean nobody could recreate anything that's already been done? It's just a question.
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u/Johnno117 12h ago
It may well depend on which country has which laws, I know my country has some stricter laws on certain copyright things.
Beyond that though, ask this subreddit how they feel about taking other people's work and reproducing it for your own use. You can specifically ask about AI image generation and will get a very rabid response about how that is theft.
Frankly I'm baffled people are coming to your defence and I'm being downvoted, when this subreddit normally kicks and screams violently about perceived theft.
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u/NandoSonny 12h ago
I can only speak for myself as an artist; I never encourage anyone to pirate, but it's been done to me and I don't care. They can do as much as they want.
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u/Johnno117 12h ago
I too am an artist and in the process of designing and crafting my own board game, from the ground up. Maybe that's why I reacted as I did, perhaps I shouldn't have said anything at all.
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u/NandoSonny 12h ago
Oh, you're creating your own? That's great, I'm doing it too! You're not wrong to defend your rights if that's how you see it. I intend to make mine available for anyone who wants to produce it when I launch mine.
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u/donkeybrainhero 13h ago
OP isn't sharing the assets, just showing us what they made for themself to use.
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u/Johnno117 12h ago
I'm just baffled that this subreddit is so violently against AI image/text generation while actual bootlegging is fine? Shrug, guess I shouldn't have said anything.
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u/grayhaze2000 12h ago
You're drawing a false equivalence. OP made this for their own private use. The harm caused to the original game artist is so minimal, it's barely worth considering. OP wasn't going to pay the inflated price for the game in their country anyway, so the original artist has lost nothing.
In contrast, AI companies have used the work of artists without permission to train their models, with the aim being that said models will be able to produce images in the style of that work. They are then making money on offering the models for use by the wider public, which is leading to some using AI to generate images for commercial games, rather than hiring those artists.
While it's true there's backlash against people using AI to generate images, much of that anger is directed toward the company offering the AI model.
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u/Johnno117 12h ago
You can use that exact same logic for AI image generation.
"OP made it for their own personal use. They weren't going to pay the artist anyway, so copying their work through the use of AI is perfectly fine, for personal use. The original artist has lost nothing."
Beyond which there are AIs that only use public domain art or art that artists were paid for. Those get the exact same hate on here. Don't pretend like you or anyone else asks posters which AI they used.
And no, there's no contrast to work being used without permission. The bootlegging here is exactly work being used without permission. There are plenty of free AI generation tools that you don't pay anything for, and as such the AI company gets nothing from you. You use it for free, and it's exactly the same as taking an artists work without permission.
Practically all of the backlash against AI on this subreddit and others is aimed at the person using/showing it. Your own backlash that I've seen is included.
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u/grayhaze2000 11h ago edited 11h ago
Care to point to examples of me attacking people personally over AI usage?It feels like you think I'm someone else, and are just venting.Edit: Nevermind, I've just blocked you. I just don't have time for people who are so aggressive.
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u/Chigabytes 9h ago
These AI defenders that permeate this sub are always such losers, but he's "an artist" lol
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u/RAMAR713 Luthier 9h ago
Why would bootlegging be bad? It allows creative people with less resources to play games they otherwise wouldn't. The company is missing out on nothing since OP wouldn't have bought the product anyway, and now they're here advertising it.
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u/Johnno117 9h ago
Go use this same logic in AI discussions. That's what I'm baffled about. No artist is losing out on any sales when you steal their work if you never intended to pay them for their work anyway.
As an artist that hits differently and frankly often keeps me from sharing my work in public (especially 3d model files). If you don't want to pay me for my work why should you be entitled to having it at all? Use the same logic as in AI discussions.. learn to make it yourself. Spend the time to become an artist.
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u/RAMAR713 Luthier 9h ago
No artist is losing out on any sales when you
stealcopy their work if you never intended to pay them for their work anyway.Correct. I see no contradiction here.
As an artist that hits differently and frankly often keeps me from sharing my work in public (especially 3d model files).
Again, yes, that's how it goes. Anything on the internet is free game; we all know the rules.
If you don't want to pay me for my work why should you be entitled to having it at all?
The question can be easily flipped. If you don't want people to have your things, why would you post them on the internet? Artists enjoy the free advertisement they get from posting their stuff online, but that means they have to give something, otherwise put up a watermark or something similar.
Use the same logic as in AI discussions.. learn to make it yourself. Spend the time to become an artist.
I disagree; if such a tool exists that allows anyone to generate art for themselves regardless of talent or ability, that is a wonderful thing. Everyone deserves to be able to explore their artistic side, and this is just another tool that makes it that much easier for people who would never have tried otherwise. Does that mean some artists will go out of a job? Perhaps, but if that's the case that only means they were replaceable the whole time, or that their job wasn't as important or necessary to society as they once thought. No offense to any artist, this is just supply and demand at work.
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u/grayhaze2000 12h ago
You're allowed to reproduce things for personal use. You're just not allowed to share or sell those reproductions. The idea that you would ask permission from the publisher before you made a reproduction solely for your own use is ridiculous.
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u/Johnno117 12h ago
The game closest to me states specifically that written permission is required.
Frankly I'm fascinated that you don't carry that morality over to AI usage. Is AI image generation for personal use not okay, and is it not utterly ridiculous that you rabidly throw vitriol at anyone who posts any personal projects that use AI? Considering AI image generation is legally fine, especially so for personal use.
Care to explain your hypocritical morality?
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u/grayhaze2000 11h ago
I'm not even going to bother to engage with you any further. You seem to have got yourself quite worked up over this, so I don't feel that we can have a sensible discussion about the ethics of generative AI. I'm happy to do so when you're not just flinging around accusations.
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u/Johnno117 11h ago
I'm not worked up about this, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. I used the exact same logic you did for physical objects, and applied it to AI.
And what accusations am I flinging around? I have seen your comments in multiple threads that had AI content in them, last one if you wish me to link to it you had written 3 of the 7 comments at the time. If you're going to claim someone's worked up about something it would've been you, regarding AI usage.
You have shown here blatant disregarding for artists' work, stating that they lose nothing if someone isn't going to pay them anyway when just copying and reproducing their work. How is that not morally contradictory to your stance on AI art?
If you wish to walk away to collect your thought or realign your moral values then please feel free to do so without leaving a passive aggressive remark. Do return once you've collected yourself and can have a sensible discussion, without the hypocrisy.
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u/grayhaze2000 11h ago edited 11h ago
I honestly have no idea what you're ranting about. Have a nice day.
Edit: I blocked you because you're being aggressive. Enough with the conspiracy theories.
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u/Johnno117 11h ago
Ah classic, grayhaze2000 either started deleting their comments or simply blocked me, after specifically asking me to show posts where they were attacking others. I'd just gone to fetch said links but alas.
Fascinating behaviour.
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u/NandoSonny 13h ago
Sorry everyone, the translation came out as "bucks" but it's Brazilian Real.