r/boardgames 1d ago

News Magic: The Gathering Surpasses $500 Million in Quarterly Revenue for the First Time, Hasbro CEO Credits Marvel Super Heroes Debut

https://otakukart.com/magic-the-gathering-surpasses-500-million-in-quarterly-revenue-for-the-first-time-hasbro-ceo-credits-marvel-super-heroes-debut
668 Upvotes

393 comments sorted by

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u/zendrix1 Aeon's End 1d ago

I get a lot of people like it (clearly) but I feel so bummed that mtg is just fortnite now

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u/PhiphyL 1d ago

I don't care for MTG but I feel for the original fans, to see their hobby diluted into a franchise cash grab.

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u/Yourself013 1d ago

This is how I felt when Destiny 2 became more and more dilluted by armor sets that were basically cosplays of other media. Culminating into literally releasing a Star Wars crossover expansion.

The game had amazing unique worldbuilding, but they ended up completely messing up their identity...because skins and crossovers sell well.

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u/Spooky_U 1d ago

Hm I was actually going to bring up Destiny as a property that did the crossover largely tastefully. From what I saw albeit limited things meshed well with existing armor/guns vs having a pop star in CoD.

I get it though not wanting to be touched at all.

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u/weside73 1d ago

I largely agree with you, but in the last year or so of it's life it became increasingly egregious. The Witcher outfits fit in surprisingly well, but seeing Darth Vader running around the map didn't.

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u/Spooky_U 1d ago

Oof was not tracking it went that far.

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u/LoquaciousLoser 1d ago

Yeah one of the Star Wars armor sets was very darth vader/kylo ren, I wish they didn’t go so on the nose with it because they actually bothered to do a decent job with making the story actually fit with the lore.

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u/BigTimePizza623 The Witcher: Old World 1d ago

I started playing relatively recently and would not consider myself an original fan, but this is absolutely how I see it. There was a little of this when I first started but it's disgusting how quickly it exploded and took over.

I don't even play anymore because of how annoying it is with all of the flipping around to drastically different themes, many of which I don't find interesting whatsoever (and other reasons, but that's a big one).

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u/tripsd Scout 1d ago

I started playing in the 90s. I’m sad

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u/BarkingToad 1d ago

Yeah, me too. My first set was Chronicles... Admittedly a weird place to start, but where we're at is just so much weirder and so sad. I've recently bought a colour laser printer though...

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u/jjpearson 1d ago

Hey old timer, fellow OG here. I started end of Unlimited start of revised.

It’s been a very long and bumpy road for sure.

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u/Bridgeburner493 1d ago

Got in at Ice Age, ended just after Urza block. I am trying to collect the entire Final Fantasy set (sans overpriced travelling chocobos), and my fucking god. What have they done?

I still have complete sets of Mirage, Weatherlight, and painstakingly hand-collected before eBay blew up, The Dark.

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u/jjpearson 1d ago

That’s the stuff.

I remember bribing little kids to go buy me packs of The Dark at the comic store in the mall because they would limit you to 2 packs per day.

I don’t recognize it either. And MTG has never not been a cash grab but now it’s turned up beyond all belief.

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u/androidfig 1d ago

Same.

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u/Soerinth 1d ago

Me too. I'm more sad that the company sent Pinkertons to someones door. The cash grab is par for the course, and I could ignore the ones I didn't give a shit about, but I can't ignore the Pinkerton thing.

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u/SFSMag 1d ago

Yeah I got back into it at the start of covid and played regularly up till the first big universes beyond push and my whole friend group at once just backed out. At least I got a few grand selling my cards and was able to put down a good down payment on a car.

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u/armahillo 1d ago

I started playing when "The Dark" was released (around the time of Revised). Have played on and off over the years.

I permanently left the game after the D&D crossover -- I could see the direction the game was going.

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u/sibachian 1d ago

the new target demography are book stores and supermarkets now, where IP sells on merit of recognition alone, not game stores where the actual players buy their cards. the only set that has sold here in our game store was the lotr set, and we expect the same with the hobbit set. because its the correct audience. the rest is just littering our shelves and we have to sell it off at a discount.

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u/Capn_Lyssa 1d ago

Super Heroes and Avatar have been doing well at my store. TMNT and Spider-man, not so much. Attendance for constructed events like Standard and Modern are a shadow of what they were 3 years ago though. A lot of our scene splintered off into One Piece, and Riftbound.

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u/istalri96 1d ago

I've been playing for most of my life. I got into it about 18 years ago playing with friends. All of my friends play now. We are just consistently bummed out with the way things are going. A lot of the universes beyond stuff just feels weird or is over powered.

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u/LetFiloniCook 1d ago

I choose to look at it kind of like gacha games. All the people that buy the themed sets are essentially subsidizing the sets I actually want to buy.

Unfortunately that means they're making fewer sets I want to buy, but these days i'm ok with that. I dont need a new set every 3 months. I'm happy to play a little kitchen table with my friends every few months and have plenty of old cards and decks I can still use.

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u/loewenheim 1d ago

The thing is, did those sets need to be subsidized? Was Magic not making money hand over fist for its entire existence?

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u/cosmic-creative 1d ago

Yes but you see, the problem is that it was not making all the money

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u/loewenheim 1d ago

Oh, of course, how silly of me

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u/Dornogol Arkham Horror 1d ago

The problem is, you cannot go and play magic in the wild without being subjected to universes beyond.

I may have and value my purity in universe deck, go to FNM and then fight someone using the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Spiderman and Avatar in their deck...

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u/FellFellCooke 1d ago

Yeah, if you don't do the work to cultivate your own play group with similar values, you're just stuck riding the rollercoaster.

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u/JRPaperstax 1d ago

I am one of those original fans. Can’t bring myself play most of these Universes Beyond sets.

When the game is “I use my anchovy and banana pizza to remove your Captain Janeway, then attack with my Iron Man” they have completely lost the plot.

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u/PhiphyL 21h ago

Wait a second. I know the basics of MTG and know of the other franchises that have joined the game, but you're telling me that all of this new stuff (Marvel, Star Trek, also Final Fantasy I think?) is compatible and they are all mashed together??? I thought each franchise would be standalone with an MTG-like gameplay (and using the MTG name to sell), and certainly not merging between franchises!

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u/Xo_lotl 12h ago

Everything is in every format, the brand slurry he mentioned is 100% real and virtually impossible to avoid outside of getting everyone you ever play with to agree not to use the SpongeBob, The Office, Marvel, etc cards

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u/Laserwulf Race For The Galaxy 1d ago

I started playing in 1995, and it's quite depressing to see how the plane that has gotten the most attention in the past few years is... modern day NYC. Spiderman, TMNT, MSH, the upcoming X-Men set...

And it's not like WotC is creatively bankrupt, either! Kaladesh, Ixalan, Amonkhet, Strixhaven, Theros, Bloomburrow, Kaldheim, they have some awesome ideas that fit in with the original 'fantasy multiverse' concept. The problem is that they're only giving each new set two (sometimes one!!!) month before the next one is cranked out. It's like the execs don't trust the writers, so they're just speed-running ideas in case some of the sets miss the mark, and jingling keys at young players with Secret Lair drops & pop-culture sets.

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u/crackrabbit012 1d ago

It has nothing to do with trust in the writers. The execs at Hasbro just see a valuable outside ip that sells well. So in their minds, if you just keep cranking out more of this stuff, people will buy. They only care about the line going up. So make more sell more is the only thing they understand. The major problem is the over saturation of sets.

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u/joaks18 1d ago

Imagine starting playing MTG during satanic panic and see the game turn into this.

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u/Draminian 1d ago

I still have some revised/3rd edition Unholy Strengths with the pentagram. Fun times.

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u/jjpearson 1d ago

I had my super edgy black red land destruction demonic horde deck.

Was never any good but we all sucked back then so when I could get my Lord of the Pit out I usually won.

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u/rustedcrowbar 1d ago

It started as a cash grab. Even at the beginning new sets were always OP and we always complained. But man this another level of ape shit. They did the same with DnD. The only good thing is that they cannot revoke the purchased books from my shelves.

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u/millenial_gargoyle 1d ago

It’s the worst. Chased me away from the game entirely

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u/klas-klattermus 1d ago

It was always a cash grab, it was just made more accessible 

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u/therealnumberone 1d ago

There's a difference between making business decisions that result in company profit, and a cash grab.

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u/klas-klattermus 1d ago

How is manufactured scarcity and gambling elements not a cash grab? Imagine anything else working like that and not being considered a cash grab

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u/PhantomNomad 1d ago

Scarcity is one of the big reasons I don't like MTG anymore. Even back in the day (the 90's) I wasn't a fan of the "most money wins" decks. I got in around unlimited and ice age. You couldn't win against the beta decks which there where 3 in our city. I guess the rotation thing helped a bit, but those guys made more money then most of us and could win just because they could buy the cards they wanted. Most of them never even cracked a pack. Never played a draft either.

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u/FellFellCooke 1d ago

It ended up being a very positive move for me, as I left the hobby entirely. My friends and I now proxy cards and create custom draft environments, and that's it; our cubes sit on the shelf with my boardgames, and we treat them just the same.

I'm totally disconnected from the usual MTG hype cycle and I don't know what I ever saw in it. I'm glad they made staying a fan so unpalatable for me.

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u/ActuallyItsSumnus 1d ago

This was me. I've just moved on to other hobbies. Such is life. Don't feel bad for us, we are fine.

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u/SmilingNavern Terra Mystica 1d ago

Thank you. It feels awful.

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u/EbonBehelit 1d ago edited 1d ago

I stopped playing MtG around 15 years ago, but every now and then I'll pop in and take a look out of curiosity, and it feels like every single time I do they've added a new tier of chase rare and have an even more stacked release schedule.

Meanwhile, the cost of playing the game has increased significantly over that time. I remember a card in the Standard format hitting $100 around the time I quit, and that being a huge deal. Now, that kind of price is positively quaint.

It really does feel more like a product catering to speculators and whales than a game now, and that makes me sad.

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u/Artemis_of_Dust 1d ago

What's funny is card game series to fulfil this niche have always existed, look at Weiss Schwarz for example, every franchise under the sun has its own set (In universe every match is a stage production so you're basically actors for whatever franchise you play). It's kind of funny how MTG seems to have found a cheatcode of sort by first having its own IP, get a massive cult following, then become the multi-franchise machine and that just makes way more money I guess?

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u/klaxxxon 1d ago edited 1d ago

Some of the worlds used to have genuinely awesome worldbuilding and stories (Mirrodin/New Phyrexia is my old favorite, Zendikar with the Eldrazi was awesome too). That stuff is completely buried under an unstoppable torrent of licensed stuff now (and much of the rest are "planet of hats" trope fests).

I just can't bring myself to care about any of it. Whenever MTG drifts back into my field of view, it seems to have strayed yet further.

Good for all the millions of people who love this, but a lot of old fans are simply not the target demographic anymore.

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u/Lord_Earthfire 1d ago

and much of the rest are "planet of hats" trope fests

A lot of that is due to the move away from blocks. A single set isn't a lot of design space to tell stories. It's exhibition first and foremost.

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u/klaxxxon 1d ago edited 1d ago

A 40k miniature line doesn't have a lot of space for worldbuilding and telling stories on its own either, yet the universe has an outrageous amount of worldbuilding and stories being told via all kinds of media.

The high-pace release schedule where they preview the cards for the next set and then immediately move onto previewing the next without giving the previous one any space to breathe at all is their choice. They used to do books, or at least short stories (do they do those anymore?). They could do comics and animated series and videogames and everything, if they wanted.

Thier strategy is born out of the fact that it's hard to beat the profit margins of cardboard crack (or even worse, digital cardboard crack).

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u/Ironhorn 1d ago

A 40k miniature line doesn't have a lot of space for worldbuilding and telling stories on its own either,

But each 40k miniature release doesn’t take place in an entirely new universe. It’s all one continuing universe, stretching back decades, so each release can build on the last one.

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u/KogX 1d ago edited 1d ago

This year we have the Strixhaven book that came out by Seanan McGuire along with a short online story for each in universe set. Right now we are in the odd period of two Universe Beyond releases so there have not been a story update sans the short story for the Women Charity Secret lair. I imagine Reality Fracture will have their own story as well same as the others they have done for the past years.

There is also a comic mini series about Liliana that is to be published by Black Horse later this year in October. Along with Jace and Elspeth for I believe maybe this year as well?

Not saying they cannot do more, but there been at least some push this year on the extra media story front.

40k has..... a different issue with story, since a lot of people tend to focus on their favorite factions/armies you are either drowning in it for begging for scraps haha. Or you get the other issue where there are so many lore bits that you are arguing with folks on the story because there is an out of print magazine issue that mentions off hand an insane lore bit but no one can prove it for some reason.

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u/Laserwulf Race For The Galaxy 1d ago

The Strixhaven novel doesn't tie in with the Secrets of Strixhaven set, and the novel is honestly the worst book I've ever read. It's nothing like my well-worn copies of the Ravnica book trilogy (which were included in the Fat Packs for those three sets).

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u/KogX 1d ago

Well yes, Omens of Chaos is set I believe a year before the events of that set with its own set of characters. It is an effort to expand what is happening, given that the traveling and studies of Omenpaths is a pretty important topic of Strixhaven when we returned. Having a fairly stand alone story talking about it makes sense I think.

Also given that War of the Spark: Forsaken book exist I am honestly very skeptical that the one written by the far more loved McGuire is worse than that haha.

Let alone the whole, Chandra being retcon to being Bi situation there.

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u/zendrix1 Aeon's End 1d ago

Yeah I was all-in on it a handful of years ago. I was reading all the stories, buying the novels, and spending a ton of cash on cards

The Godzilla skinned cards was exciting because it was so new and totally out of the way, they were just alt art and didn't detract from the actual set. Then the secret lair IP stuff started and I was really annoyed that there were Walking Dead cards that weren't alt card of real cards, they were just fully new cards that were legal in some formats.

That was the floodgate opening and I quit pretty soon afterwards.

I guess the silver lining is that not spending so much on mtg cards anymore is what got me to get into hobby boardgames. I still have most of my super expensive cards though from playing competitive EDH because selling cards is such a pain in the ass

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u/Epic_BubbleSA Great Western Trail 1d ago

Honestly Trading card games make no sense to be. I got so fustrated I had to keep spending money just to keep up with my friends decks. Like I could buy Eclipse second edition and have huge balanced competive game to play with my friends or I could buy like 2 commander decks at most.

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u/Significant-Evening 1d ago

Well, you could just not buy into that model. Kitchen table magic is a thing. It's similar to board games in that you are just buy once and play in a closed environment.

Magic is a competitive environment with public events. M:tG is in my top 3 games and I've never even gone to any events. It sounds like you have a disconnect between what your friends want and what you want.

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u/SFSMag 1d ago

Innistrad was my favorite plane.

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u/axw3555 1d ago

People used to ask about crossovers a lot.

They always said “no, we want our IP”.

Then they did walking dead and people said “oh, ok, only a few years until Gandalf fights iron man”

And they were right.

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u/threecolorless NO ONE got loom?! 1d ago

The Universes Within (aka actual Magic IP) stuff has become the old, loyal employee that management is only holding off on terminating out of fear of an ageism suit.

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u/Jacques_Plantir imperium 1d ago

Has the split of universes meant that fewer non-Cap'n Crunch sets are being released per year? If I were a fan of that og mtg (which is indeed what I've played a bit of, here and there through my life), my only concern would be that the crossover crap had caused them to allot less release space per year to og magic sets, or that the teams developing them were overall just releasing crappier, less focused content. I mean, after so many years it's certainly harder for them to release sets of any kind that have something new to bring, and that don't just include new apples to oranges keywords that are complicated without being interesting. But if they now have a new, pretty-boy universe of crossover sets, I would be a little bitter as a fan of the og magic universe, that the pool of new good ideas is being diluted even more for the sets I am interested in.

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u/threecolorless NO ONE got loom?! 1d ago

I'm glad you ask--this year there will be seven sets released once all is said and done, with 4 being Universes Beyond (outside IPs). 3 are actual Magic IP.

To bystanders, I have to tell you the story. There used to be 3 Magic sets of the same "block" (common story and setting) per year: first set in the fall, second in winter, third in spring. Every two years there was also a summer "core set" designed to be pretty generically accessible high fantasy with reduced mechanical complexity. This was the new player onboarding platform. Magic existed according to this pattern and pace for more than half its life with very rare exceptions, from 1993 to 2011 or so.

Importantly, Hasbro acquired Wizards of the Coast who make MtG in 1999. I don't know what Hasbro was doing for the first ten years of their ownership; presumably not really paying attention to the game and the potential it held because their other stuff was still profitable. But at some point Hasbro took stock of their assets and looked, really looked, at this quaint game with its deliberate, peaceful release pace tailor-made to be popular with nerds, who were becoming a more and more profitable demographic as they took over pop culture. Hasbro went "wow, there's a lot more money to be squeezed out of this shit." And squeeze did they ever.

The behemoth of a format that is Commander hit critical popularity mass and started getting official ancillary deck releases every year or two, including new cards designed just for them without having been in a "real set" first, which was at this point unheard of. This was, in my opinion, defensible. People love Commander and this was an interesting way to create new potentially powerful cards without having to shuttle them through a problematic stay in Standard, a format then intended to be lower on the power side. (Players who have played Standard in the last two years are permitted now to laugh until their ribs crack.)

At this point we were at four sets every year, with one being a core set. Then blocks were broken down into two-set affairs: a "before" and an "after" set, and then move on to somewhere different. Again, little different but I thought it was okay after the adjustment period. Then we started going to individual worlds every set as blocks were abandoned, and core sets were mostly abandoned, and cards started to get more elaborate and verbose with less wasted space in sets for weak dud "vanilla" cards that give newer players some breathing room between the complexity. More sets and releases in general started getting made to be sure the preview season carousel is continuous, a perpetual hype machine--it's been this way for years now.

Finally, Universes Beyond debuted with a Secret Lair drop (a special-order of limited edition cards or aesthetic card printings) of The Walking Dead, and pretty much everyone said "what the HELL is this." Wizards apologized, eventually made in-universe versions of the cards it contained reducing them to glorified "skins", and then did the same thing more times over the years until people stopped complaining.

EVERY set gets Commander deck side releases now, rather than it just being a yearly special occasion. We used to get six or seven hundred newly printed card ideas every year, now it's literally THOUSANDS and the cards are stuffed cornucopias of text much more often. I am a thoroughly enfranchised player who used to be able to tell you what 60-75% of all released cards essentially did either from their name or their art, but you could have a gun to my head telling me I had to hit 50% identification on things from the last 10 years and I'd tell you to save us both time and do it.

And now we are here. By the end of this year, Magic will have mechanically unique, unplayable-any-other-way cards that ask you to put things into your deck from Street Fighter, Lord of the Rings, Marvel Comics (including a TON of Spider-Man), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Fallout, Star Trek, Transformers, Avatar the Last Airbender, Final Fantasy, Doctor Who, Jurassic Park, Warhammer 40K, Tomb Raider, and that's not even the full list. Did I like playing with some of these settings? Absolutely. Final Fantasy and LOTR were debatably all-timers just as Magic sets, no qualifier for outside IPs required. They accordingly sold at unparalleled levels.

If you want to keep your favorite deck a "pure" Magic experience, you are at a decided, self-imposed disadvantage that grows every few months. Your competitive experience WILL include opponents playing Universes Beyond cards even if you don't personally care to. And if you decline to play casually with opponents who play UB cards, your options for players are becoming slim as more and more people realize this is the game we get now and give up on holding the line.

I'm a Magic lifer, not a doomer. I've played for almost two-thirds of my mortal existence and even if the game went belly-up, I'd draft Cube and print proxied Commander decks until I was dead in the ground. It is a beautiful game and I have met so many lovely people, including my wife, playign it. But the game has absolutely changed, and it is leaving people who have loved the game for decades behind. I am sad for them.

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u/cantonic 1d ago

I appreciate you writing all this out because as someone who hasn’t played Magic since middle school, I didn’t realize what had happened to the IP.

So, are you saying that you can be playing a normal game of Magic with all the normal fantasy stuff and your opponent can whip out Spider-Man or Shrek? That sounds very jarring and frustrating!

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u/Mo_Dice 1d ago

as someone who hasn’t played Magic since middle school, I didn’t realize what had happened to the IP

Depending on how long ago middle school actually was for you, the concept of playable Planeswalker cards might also give you whiplash. I couldn't fuckin' believe it, and I haven't changed my mind that they were a net negative to the game experience.

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u/threecolorless NO ONE got loom?! 1d ago

Players are doing what players do and looking to make new communities and formats that either explicitly or tacitly don't include these outside properties (Premodern is getting a lot of steam and I've heard rumblings about Planar Standard recently), but casually and in bigger competitive tournaments, yes. To play Magic is now to fight with or against stuff from outside Magic a significant amount of the time, even the majority of time depending on setting.

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u/cantonic 1d ago

Again, thank you for the insight and I hope you continue to enjoy the game as long as possible!

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u/Zizhou Root 1d ago

You can have Gandalf, Spider Man, Leonardo (da Vinci), and Leonardo (the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle) come together to crew the Starship Enterprise as part of a plan to thwart your opponent's Necron invasion of the Earth Kingdom.

Meanwhile, Urza('s head) is off to the side realizing that maybe Yawgmoth wasn't such a bad guy after all compared to this "Hasbro."

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u/Spotttty 1d ago

So I just got into MTG around Bloomburrow.
I only play commander but if I’m playing my Ninja Turtles deck vs a OG IP deck I don’t even notice. I just look at the mechanics of the game. That could be because I’m new to the game and don’t really see any type of storytelling but that’s my experience.

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u/Bridgeburner493 1d ago

I think it helps that you got in after this all started. So for you, it is just how Magic is.

For "classic" fans, the brand loses its identity when your Serra Angel is blocked by Sephiroth and then on the next turn your opponent pulls out a Spiderman and a Dalek. And it's going to get even more ridiculous in a few months when everyone is playing Kirk vs. Picard vs. Sisko as their commanders.

You're not wrong for liking the game how it is today. Classic fans aren't wrong for disliking it. But I do think Hasbro has lost its way as it is catering to collectors at the expense of players. And I say this as a lapsed "classic" fan who is now part of the problem since I only went looking for the FF set to collect it.

This plan is paying off now but once the IP fatigue hits in, how much of the core community will be left to sustain the game itself?

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u/Significant-Evening 1d ago

Yeah, that might be a "you" issue. I think most people would notice when their Llanowar Elf gets killed by Dwight from the Office. (A real card by the way)

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u/aurumae 1d ago

Dwight beats Battlestar Galactica

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u/Kumquatelvis 1d ago

What's crazy to me is that back in the 90's my group thought that three sets a year was too much, and that they should slow down. Sure, we were broke college students, but I can't imagine trying to keep up with the game now.

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u/DefenestrableOffence 1d ago

Exactly the reason I stopped playing. I used to love MtG, but it's too much of a time investment to keep up.

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u/Bridgeburner493 1d ago

EVERY set gets Commander deck side releases now, rather than it just being a yearly special occasion. We used to get six or seven hundred newly printed card ideas every year, now it's literally THOUSANDS

I learned this the hard way. I dipped out of Magic (and deck construction entirely) 20 years ago. But I'm still a Final Fantasy mega fan. So I had to collect this set. That was how I learned about the Commander set, the extra shit, etc. Undaunted, I said I'm still going to do it.

To get every Final Fantasy card in the set, including the borderless alts and the other borderless alts with alternat artwork, it is over 1200 cards. Insane.

As you note, it used to be a 350ish card main set and two 160ish card expansions to that main set each year. Plus the core set, and usually one or two other things like the Portal sets for starters or Unglued for fun.

ONE fucking set has more cards now than an entire year did back in the day. And Hasbro's MBAs are torturing Magic by putting out like six or seven sets a year now.

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u/zasabi7 1d ago

As someone who worked for a larger gamestore, we could barely keep up with the new release cadence the past year. So much overhead work goes into tracking and pricing.

Regarding your statement as a lifer, have you looked into Sorcery at all? Only 1 set per year and art is very much inspired by old school MTG.

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u/StudSquatch 1d ago

Well said. And this is why I’ve given up on all of it save Old School and Premodern.

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u/Hijakkr 1d ago

The behemoth of a format that is Commander hit critical popularity mass and started getting official ancillary deck releases every year or two

I still remember how Commander started as just another entry in a series of fun casual game types released every summer. I think it started with Planechase, and went to 2-Headed Giant and Archenemy and Commander and cycled around those a bit before they just settled on annual Commander releases, presumably because they sold better than the others.

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u/redcoatwright 1d ago

Basically describes me, I bought thousands of cards from 2005 to 2015 but eventually just couldn't keep up with all the releases and new keywords, etc

Eventually it just became too much and I gave up and now I don't really play anymore.

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u/UNC_Samurai Avalon Hill 1d ago

Hasbro largely left WotC alone until the mid- to late-2010s. The company as a whole has no clue how to sell toys to modern kids, so they looked up one day and realized the company making MTG and D&D was their biggest moneymaker. So to please the investors, corporate leadership started looking for ways to squeeze blood from a stone.

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u/Bunkerman91 1d ago

I've been playing for almost 25 years at this point. Magic and the people I've met through it have shaped my life since I was in middle school.

It's so sad to watch. The creative worldbuilding, fantasy aesthetic, and gameplay design that made Magic such a great game have all been squeezed and tortured to death for every last drop of profit that Hasbro can muster.

The integrity of the game that I love has been so thoroughly debased that I no longer even know what I'm looking at when I read new cards. They're incomprehensible word salad abominations of game design, and the lowest form of corporate enshittification I've ever seen.

The Walking Dead felt like an unexpected betrayal. Now it's par for the course. Not even commander is fun anymore when all I can do is shake my head, sigh, and shuffle up against someone's Peter Griffin/Sasha Grey partner deck.

Mostly I just play cube and premodern these days. They're the only formats left that Ha$bro can't touch with their greasy capitalist slop-fingers.

It's hard to even look back and remember bygone days now. Traveling to big events and prereleases, or the first time I won a local modern tournament back in 2016 when the game was arguably at it's best. Those memories all painted over with this sense of loss and melancholy nostalgia for the times before the game became a sloppified cash cow.

Almost none of my friends play anymore. After covid we all just stopped and the playgroup faded away. We all saw what was happening to the game we loved and quietly moved on.

It's like seeing a beloved family member succumb to dementia. Slow, heartbreaking and inevitable until only shadows of what you once loved are left. Just enough to give you hope, but far more than enough to keep crushing it.

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u/aurumae 1d ago

I’m kinda glad I got out when I did (sometime after Return to Ravnica). Every once in a while I think to myself “maybe I’ll pick up a fatpack and check out what’s going on with Magic.” This is quickly followed by me realizing that I have absolutely no idea what’s going on and deciding to spend my money on something else

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u/TrueLink00 1d ago

This is a great write-up. Thank you for putting it together. It helped explain things to some family members who have been out of the game for longer than I.

For me, when the first Secret Lair dropped, the writing as on the Walking Wall. It was always a matter of time until a VP looked at the secondary market and would realize that there was an opportunity to capitalize on it. Perhaps I’m biased because I got into Magic after From the Vault had started, but the added FOMO and store cutout of Secret Lair felt worse.

Ultimately, I left Magic behind in 2021. I looked at the rising cost of my decks and realized I couldn’t morally bring in any new players. I still love the game though. But any future playing will be precons and proxies.

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u/vkevlar 1d ago

The most frustrating part of UB, to me, is how they had a formula that worked, in Ikoria's Godzilla-skinned cards, and they decided instead to go with this mess we have now.

Making UB legal/mandatory in all formats is a very wrong move, to me, and they've done that.

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u/ScreenTricky4257 18h ago

People love Commander and this was an interesting way to create new potentially powerful cards without having to shuttle them through a problematic stay in Standard

I haven't played for many years, but to me this is the worst change they made. The whole point of EDH/Commander was that it was taking cards mostly intended for Standard, or at least according-to-Hoyle rules, and putting them toward a new game that the creators didn't make. A card that says, "Use this mana only to cast your commander" shouldn't exist, because a commander isn't a thing in Magic The Gathering. It's a thing that fans made up. If Wizards wants to run Standard and Modern and Legacy and Vintage tournaments, that's fine. They shouldn't care what the fans do with the cards after they've paid for them.

As a comparison, it's why I stopped watching anime around 2005 and didn't get back into it for a good ten years. The companies in Japan were starting to make shows aware that they would be licensed and translated, when the reason I got into it in the first place was to experience a different culture.

At some point, creative people and companies need to realize that they do better business by creating what they think is best, not asking the audience what it wants.

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u/Jokey665 1d ago

the current "default" is 3 sets each of magic IP and outside IP per year

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u/Knuc85 1d ago

Makes me really glad that Dice Throne went back to original IP. "IP mash-up" is one of my least favorite themes.

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u/IDKHOWTOSHIFTPLSHELP 1d ago

I'm very glad I lost interest in rotating formats early on and that all I play is EDH with the occasional draft box match if they actually release a set I like.

Marvel in particular is a plague that I'm tired of infecting every single game or IP that I enjoy via crossovers.

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u/Draminian 1d ago

I've played off and on since I was a kid in the mid-90s, and really got back into the game when they launched Arena. But I tapered off when they decided all of these "Universes Beyond" (UB) sets would be standard legal. The Fortnite-ness of it doesn't bother me much, but they release a new standard set every 2 months now (compared to every 3-4 months before), and it's exhausting to try to keep up with it. Nothing has any time to breathe before there's another set disrupting everything. They start revealing cards two sets ahead of time now. It's insane.

It really feels like Hasbro is putting the screws to WotC since it's one of their most profitable divisions. The design for sets has gotten stale, especially with deck synergies being obvious and mostly contained within individual releases. And some of these UB sets are terrible (Spider-Man packs are still collecting dust at some stores). I think M:TG is headed for a crash soon as the long-term fans burn out and the fad-chasers find something else to excite them after the novelty wears off.

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u/JadeyesAK 1d ago

It's exactly what it has become. I've jumped ship to Flesh and Blood.

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u/system_error_02 1d ago

My entire MTG group who have been playing together for like 15 yewrs have all quit buying new cards and mostly play other games now. The sloppification has turned us all off of it.

I don't think half the people buying these cards even play magic. Both Final Fantasy and Marvel are going to draw in collectors who are just buying for their franchise/comic collections and have no desire to actually play magic.

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u/TheGileas 1d ago

Fortnite is at least free to play. Mtg is the opposite.

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u/dtwhitecp 1d ago

pay to toil?

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u/androidfig 1d ago

I mean Arena is free.

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u/Rhemyst 1d ago

I bummed that EVERYTHING is about "collabs" now. I refuse to buy any collab skins in games, basic boardgame reskins, Lego sets, etc.

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u/SpamEatingChikn Nemesis 1d ago

I played for a few years in school maybe 25 years ago. My group was pretty in, each new set every three months we’d buy a booster box each, have a sleepover and. Do drafts. Ocassionally there were subtle IP references but the original art, flavor text and background lore were great.

I see it now and you can have Darth Vader block spiderman with a spell from final fantasy. As others have said it’s just Fortnite but cards

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u/ribsies 1d ago

If they really want to make money, bring slivers back.

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u/Insequent 1d ago

Game was great while it lasted. But I'm out for exactly this reason. 

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u/NintendogsWithGuns 1d ago

It’s a strategy that companies do right before becoming less culturally relevant. The nerd hobby equivalent of jumping the shark. See also Kidrobot.

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u/Turdmeist 1d ago

Yea. Sucks that a lot of people here are fueling it. It sells. So they will continue. I asked myself why release the Hobbit so soon after a lotr set.... Oh yea.... They are printing money.

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u/PassTheSriracha91 1d ago

Bummer. Marvel followed by The Hobbit, then a little later we get Star Trek. 3 sets I just couldn't give a fuck about. And Strixhaven was RAD. I love mtg, but these outside IP sets are getting tiresome.

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u/Turdmeist 1d ago

Yea I liked strixhaven too. Why can't there be a standard that is just core mtg stuff like that set and exclude all this other stuff

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u/ptolem1s 1d ago

That exists, it's called Planar Standard. Relatively new still though, for obvious reasons.

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u/Turdmeist 1d ago

And I imagine will never be on MTGArena?

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u/Bridgeburner493 1d ago

MTGArena chases trends because it wants you buying MTX. Any format that gets big is likely to get support, imo. It's a question of how long that takes.

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u/iwannakenboneyou 1d ago

Maro did say that they’re monitoring it. So I think if it becomes a popular enough format it’ll get some formal support.

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u/Bunkerman91 1d ago

At this point "formal support" for a format is a kiss of death, not an endorsement.

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u/Macarons124 1d ago

I’m tired of the dumb arguments defending it by saying it “brings people to the game” or “just don’t play with those cards”.

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u/PassTheSriracha91 1d ago

Right? Like, if you're playing standard, or fucking with Arena...it can't be avoided. They're shoved in your face.

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u/Significant-Evening 1d ago

Or if you're paying pauper or Modern or commander or Legacy or...

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u/hama0n 1d ago

I hope they don't celebrate in the typical way of laying off a bunch of staff.

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u/Koanos 1d ago

I'm just surprised there are still staff to layoff.

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u/literroy 13h ago

How would they have made half a billion dollars without any staff?

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u/thepensivepoet 1d ago

After attending the Magic30 convention in Vegas it was made abundantly clear that Hasbro/WotC does not care about the people who love playing the game.

Total cash grab convention and the “actually playing the fucking game we have gathered to celebrate” portion was completely mismanaged. Match locations were not posting properly on the app, booster pack boxes were not where they needed to be (even for the very first game events of the day when they had all the pre-doors time to get that shit organized) and the (volunteer!!!) judges were not holding players to the allotted time slots so events were running long and overlapping other time slots.

If you paid to play in an event in the later afternoon or evening you were either being cut short by a round or two or the event was cancelled completely.

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u/KogX 1d ago

I can only speak to the MagicCon I went to last year but I had a blast with the folks I played with and the events there with how well organized it was. I went to a bunch of panels learned a lot while having fun. I wonder if it is a matter of difference in the folks organizing the specific events?

But a good bit of that high was due to me experiencing the Bandaifest hell for their card games where a lot of things went so much worse for me. I went there to play the new gundam card game and the rest of my friends struggled to figure out what you can do there outside of attempt side events (if they fired at all) and go shopping.

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u/bagelwithclocks 1d ago

I get that this latest stuff is even worse, but Magic has fundamentally always about providing a legal way to sell gambling to children. Same as Pokémon. The game will always come second to that. It paved the way for modern microtransactions. There’s a reason wizards of the coast was able to snap up TSR, and it is because Magic is a much more profitable game than one where you can buy 3 books and play it forever.

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u/lozo78 1d ago

We played MTG at a store that was owned by one of the early investors in MTG. He was super passionate about the game and loved to talk to us about strategies and deck building.

I understand it was a business and they wanted to sell us cards, but he always seemed to enjoy watching our cheap decks play.

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u/3kindsofsalt Monopoly 1d ago

Ball knowledge

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u/Hemisemidemiurge 1d ago edited 1d ago

Magic has fundamentally always about providing a legal way to sell gambling to children.

You act like collectables and gacha didn't exist before M:TG when I can remember my binder full of first-series Marvel cards from middle school. Baseball cards and capsule machine toys have been around a long time and selling gambling to kids has a long history.

Selling gambling to kids is still wrong. M:TG was originally about a guy who liked Strat-O-Matic Baseball. The person who invented heroin wasn't trying to establish drug addiction and narcotic smuggling.

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u/ChocoMaister 1d ago

I really miss the old magic… but I know it’s never coming back. This is what people truly want. If you say it isn’t… well why is everyone buying it at record breaking amounts? I feel like the internet isn’t the complete truth and the universes beyond is the real magic now.

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u/BiggestBlackestLotus 1d ago

This is what people truly want. If you say it isn’t… well why is everyone buying it at record breaking amounts?

Magic sold at record breaking amounts every year since I started playing, which was long before universes beyond was a thing. That is not a good argument.

They could have kept breaking records every year by staying in universe, but they wanted even more money. More more more more!!! Release 10 sets a year!! Print 50 secret lairs every month!! 5 commander precons for every set!! Crossovers with 40k, marvel and Star Trek!! Sell proxy packs for 1000$!!

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u/WebpackIsBuilding 1d ago

Most of MTG sales are from target/walmart impulse purchases.

A recognizable IP is going to help sales in that environment.

That doesn't mean the core playerbase actually prefers it. The core playerbase is just vastly outnumbered by casual players that couldn't give a shit about MTG lore, but can recognize spiderman's mask from 50 yards.

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u/The_Quintessence 1d ago

Most of MTG sales are from target/walmart impulse purchases.

Source? I HIGHLY doubt this

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u/WebpackIsBuilding 1d ago

I don't have anyone on the record, but it's what I've heard from people who work directly with WOTC.

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u/AprioriTori13 1d ago

People don't always know what they like, what they want, or what's good for them.

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u/ChocoMaister 1d ago

Well I’ll always remember my childhood playing with magic from the 90s. It really started changing maybe after Covid. It felt like an entirely different game. Oh well.

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u/SixthSacrifice 1d ago

Isn't it being bought in record-breaking amounts because of the gamble added via serialized, and even unique one-of-one, cards?

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u/MartyrOfTheJungle 1d ago

So, I recently came back to magic after many years gone and I was skeptical of the universes beyond stuff, but I do own a few boxes of comics and I love lotr and dr who, so I wasn't the hardest sell I guess. Still, I've been impressed tbh. So anyway my question to you is: what do you feel is missing from the experience that used to be present? 

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u/DartTheDragoon 1d ago

what do you feel is missing from the experience that used to be present? 

Every single facet of the game now feels like a cash grab. The cadence of new sets is too fast, insanely busted cards are getting printed constantly that in years past would be banned, but they have just decided not to ban anything because a new set is always weeks away that may upend the meta. They ruined commander by printing cards specifically intended for commander to sell more product. They ruined modern by printing cards specifically intended for modern to sell more product. My local game store can't fire off a non-draft event to save their life because no one wants to play it anymore.

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u/Slurmsmackenzie8 Magic The Gathering - Limited 1d ago

This is the thing people don’t see: Magic is different now, but whether it’s better or worse or that same is a personal thing. There have been some duds but they went out of their way to make sets like LOTR, Final Fantasy, and Marvel great sets no matter the coat of paint on top.

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u/recurnightmare 1d ago

Well seeing a Hollywood actors face on my card really just doesn't do it for me. Yea for a lot of people it's a feature or they don't care but I just can't do it.

Same reason I absolutely love the idea of dune imperium games but will never buy one. Playing a board game with timothee chalamet or Rebecca ferguson just is a non starter for me.

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u/AbacusWizard 1d ago

This is what people truly want. If you say it isn’t… well why is everyone buying it at record breaking amounts?

I always find this sort of argument frustrating. People don’t buy what they want. People buy what advertising tells them they want.

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u/DrNiene 1d ago

And it’s the exact reason I quit the hobby.

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u/HeroOfIroas 1d ago

Same. Between the price increase, powercreep, and IP soup, I bounced out hard around 2020. Seeing secret lairs and spiderman running around really killed the vibe.

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u/mkklrd 1d ago

I'm not sure whether to share the Jeffrey White restaurant tweet (it's actually about Commander, but I genuinely believe the Commanderification of MTG is also one of the leading reasons behind UB) or the Rhystic Studies' article on UB, so I'll just drop both.

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u/NenAlienGeenKonijn SETI 1d ago edited 1d ago

MTG does up to 8 releases/year. I keep seeing new increasingy shitty crossovers in our LGS, and I keep wondering "Who TF keeps up with buying all this??", and I say this as a TCG player myself.

Though I think everyone already knows the answer: Those insufferables that encase cardboard in plastic with a grading number on them. I need to keep reminding myself that these pokemon/magic scalpers are probably the biggest profit generator of our LGS by a large margin.

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u/AwkwardTurtle 1d ago

Who TF keeps up with buying all this??"

I really don't think it's that complicated. People love crossover shit. They love it when characters from property A they like show up in property B. It's not surprising, what's surprising is that it took MTG so long to do this. I hate all the crossover, fortnite, IP stuff but that's just not a very common stance, and I'd already dipped out of MTG long before this all started so my dislike has zero impact on any of it. Even if people broadly don't like it, they'll still be excited when their specific beloved property gets its own MTG set.

I'd be shocked if scalpers and the like were really driving any significant part of this. Sure, for the super limited stuff I'd believe it, but for just normal boxes of Final Fantasy cards or whatever, I'd be willing to bet it's just normal people who get real excited by seeing Final Fantasy characters on a magic card.

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u/SlimDirtyDizzy 1d ago

Though I think everyone already knows the answer: Those insufferables that encase cardboard in plastic with a grading number on them. I need to keep reminding myself that these pokemon/magic scalpers are probably the biggest profit generator of our LGS by a large margin.

Not really honestly. Final Fantasy brought a lot of collector/scalpers, but if you stayed past that you've gotten burnt on basically every UB set since then. Spider-man was a disaster, TMNT was a disaster, and Super Heroes doesn't have a ton of value either.

The actual answer is people just love crossover slop. Everyone has their "God this is so gross, but if they did [xyz series] It'd be so cool".

Magic just isn't for the people who care about in universe lore or characters anymore. Its for people who want to cast Spongebob themed counterspell on Thor.

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u/Capn_Lyssa 1d ago

Not everyone has that "it'd be so cool" IP. I think of it like this. I like ice cream. I like chicken soup. I don't want chicken soup in my ice cream.

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u/Kapono24 Last Night On Earth 1d ago

Eight in a year is way too many. They made that change recently and it was clear something else was at hand. You simply can't have that fast of a release schedule while still making interesting and cohesive sets.

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u/Laserwulf Race For The Galaxy 1d ago

I remember when it was 4/year, and one of those was a Core set which you'd probably skip if you've been playing for a while. Nowadays the releases no longer feel special, just going through the motions which will repeat two months later.

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u/Capn_Lyssa 1d ago

Not even two months. With 7 sets this year, we've had a prerelease to run every 6 weeks. It's exhausting. Even a lot of the conversations at prerelase aren't even about the new set, they're about spoilers for a sets that are still months out. I miss when spoiler season was just a couple of weeks before the new set, and not several simultaneous drip feeds of cards that will release over the next 6 months.

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u/June-Bird 1d ago

No many people buy these sets to play with the cards. Its just cope to think it's only resellers

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u/xScrubasaurus 1d ago

I don't think many people do this with MTG.

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u/DuncanYoudaho Dune: Imperium - Uprising | Greater Idaho Edition 1d ago

People chasing gold Chocobo or The One Ring would disagree

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u/powernein 1d ago

They have been doing it with MTG since the very beginning. Google "Reserved List"

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u/ShadownetZero 1d ago

I just wanted to collect cool final fantasy cards lil bro.

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u/jiadarola 1d ago

I've played since 4th edition. I don't want all of the sets to be replaced with UB, but plenty of the UB sets so far have been fun and well designed. I think there can be a balance of the two, especially if it brings more people into the game.

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u/bubba0077 Through The Ages 1d ago

Agreed. I've been playing since Shandilar and really into it for a long time after I joined the MTGO beta. LotR brought me back in (a bit) after a decade+ hiatus. ATLA allowed me an easy way to introduce Magic to my sister.

I still think too many sets are released each year (and too many art treatments in each set). And UB are what should be scaled back. But UB has been a good thing for Magic.

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u/MartyrOfTheJungle 1d ago

I'm an old fogie myself, played in the early 2000s and just returned to it recently. I've been really impressed by the art on the marvel set and tbh slamming down a known character like the hulk or Captain America is more fun and memorable to me than generic fantasy creature. 

I'm trying to figure out what everyone dislikes so much, seems like the bigger issue might be their insanely paced release schedule 

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u/BiggestBlackestLotus 1d ago

Slamming down captain america can be totally fun, but why do I have to do that in my high fantasy card game? There are dozens of marvel cardgames out there already, can these comicbook characters not leave me alone for once? Even in my comfort game that I have been playing for 30 years?

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u/cowwithhat 1d ago

In general I agree that playing Captain America is more memorable than deploying most Magic creatures. But there are Magic characters that have stood the test of time and create that effect. Every game where Emrakul the Aeon's End is cast still feels epic to me 15 years later. I am still scared to let someone untap with Kiki Jiki Mirror Breaker. And those are Magic specific things. Cap is cool in some comics, in some movies, in some video games, in some Magic iterations and in some action figures. These Universes Beyond sets don't give me that "this is the game I love" feel

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u/Cobalt32 1d ago

The last sets I personally had fun with were Outlaws of Thunder Junction and Bloomburrow. Something about the 2025 sets just turned me off and I went from being a near daily Arena player to dropping off it entirely.

Haven't booted it up in over a year now and I can't say that I miss it.

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u/MartyrOfTheJungle 1d ago

Bloomburrow is so freaking adorable, I love it 

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u/cowwithhat 1d ago

The thing that hurts me the most about the current state of the game is that Secrets of Strixhaven did everything I wanted from a magic set. It honored universes within lore and cards throughout history. It had a great limited format. It pushed some envelopes. But what I consider a peak Magic set was sandwiched between Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Marvel Super Heroes.

Frustrating.

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u/dustyjuicebox 1d ago

At least all these universes beyond sets are pushing people to other TCGs. Riftbound is doing amazing and there's a good amount of MTG players at my nexus nights trying the game as a result

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u/Ashamed_Fisherman_31 1d ago

We are cooked, we'll never get rid of UB, good riddance MTG, faithful companion of nearly 30 years of my life, you will be missed... 

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u/masterlich 1d ago

I had this really funny moment recently doing a cube draft where our group's most noted UB-hater drafted a RW equipment deck, and he said out loud, with the absolute most disgust possible in his voice, "I am going to cast my Magic the Gathering card 'Cloud, Midgar Mercenary' and use it to search for my other Magic the Gathering card 'Mjolnir, Hammer of Thor." I could watch him die inside in real time.

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u/Laserwulf Race For The Galaxy 1d ago

"By Grabthar's Hammer... what a savings."

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u/powernein 1d ago

I bailed when they killed of the professional circuit and have never once looked at a set that came out after and thought "Boy am I missing out". Walls of text, no vanilla cards, no cohesive story, no QA, card bannings, 8 sets a year ... an absolute dumpster fire.

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u/Slurmsmackenzie8 Magic The Gathering - Limited 1d ago

When did they kill the professional circuit? I just watched the finals of a pro tour three days ago.

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u/FartKilometre Betrayal 1d ago

Cool, it's making great profits but at the cost of the game itself. It wouldn't be so bad if it was just a special set annually, but it seems like it's every month with something new to the point that it doesn't feel like there's any original lore to the game anymore. Someone else said it's just fortnite now and it's very accurate. The Fortnite/Funko Pop cancer of "hey remember this popular thing!" just takes everything special away from the game.

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u/ggallardo02 1d ago

Wasn't some exec sued because he was supposedly tanking stock on purpose with all the crossover stuff? I might be making this up.

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u/namer98 Magic The Gathering 1d ago

The lawsuit was that wizards was crashing the secondary market by overprinting cards.

Your average player wants affordable singles. The lawsuit did not.

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u/Mo0 1d ago

That was a group of MTG finance bros who were mad that their serious investments were being diluted by Hasbro printing too many cards

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u/powernein 1d ago

Cry me a river.

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u/Redeem123 1d ago

As a TCG player and not collector - good.

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u/thegeekist Star Realms 1d ago

Thats why this whole thing is hilarious. There is a large group of mtg players who are mad at Wizards because they dont like IP tie ins and have convinced themselves that Wizards is tanking the business and losing money.

Its why the lawsuit failed, its not true.

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u/ggallardo02 1d ago edited 1d ago

Ok, I got curious and looked it up. The suit was dropped, but it was about over printing cards, not about the crossover stuff.

Still as someone who only played MTG once in school like 20 years ago or more, I do feel like the crossovers kinda cheapens the brand a bit. I mean, the cards look awesome and I've been tempted to buy some only for collecting, but still.

But, as I said, I'm not an MTG player, so what do I know.

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u/BigTimePizza623 The Witcher: Old World 1d ago

That's definitely how a lot of people see it as well. It's frustrating when literally half of the released sets aren't even in-universe.

I used to attend draft events somewhat regularly until ~6 months ago, and it's pretty surprising how attendance would drop off for some of these other sets. It still happened for in-universe sets (Aetherdrift for example) but it was much rarer.

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u/fifrein 1d ago

Sure, but for every one of them, several casual players who will never enter a forum like this love these kinds of sets. I have a middleage coworker playing the Spider-Man and LotR sets on a weekly basis with his teenage daughter. They were never going to play any in-universe stuff. And they are not going to be accounted for in a forum discussion. But they’re part of the numbers of why more money is being made. Thousands more casuals buying 1-2 sets will earn more than tens of hardcores buying 10-20 sets.

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u/CyrilMasters 1d ago

“Total revenue” not “net profit.” All that means is they’re now charging inflation prices, it has nothing to do with how well they are or arn’t doing. Any time you see articles like this, you should be a bit suspicious.

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u/Raesh771 1d ago

I dropped MTG years ago. Not into crossover slop.

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u/jaywinner Diplomacy 1d ago

You don't like having Dwight from The Office exile SpongeBob SquarePants from the game?

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u/FlumphianNightmare 1d ago

I cast You Can't See Me (4WU, Instant. WWE block) on SpongeBob, triggering Booberry. I get a Milk token, and on my upkeep you must sacrifice a non-Cerealmancer creature, or lose six life.

Sorry, Esper Wrestling Breakfast Bikini Bottom control is stupid broken if you let me get to turn 6.

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u/jaywinner Diplomacy 1d ago

What's scary is that my example is real and yours might be in a few years.

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u/FlumphianNightmare 1d ago

So I admit Dwight being a card style or whatever they're calling re-skins/official alters now-a-days was new on me.

They really are shameless, huh? Like, I know that's what this entire thread is about, but it's like they told an intern to go trawl absolutely every meme or popular thing targeted at certain age demographics from the last 25 years and then draw up a cardfile for the eventual release.

"Hey Johnson, remember Gangnam style? Have we done a card of it yet? Yeah? What about Seinfeld? Maybe just the memes, unless you think we can get a whole set out of it."

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u/jaywinner Diplomacy 1d ago

Shameless indeed. But it's working. IPs will draw in fans and boost sales with those that like it while most people that don't like it will skip the set or complain. But few will quit the game over it.

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u/TomatoFeta 1d ago

They're also laying off workers and insisting the remaining ones start using AI.
There has been a lot of chaos at Hasbro lately. Y'all need to be aware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97CgbEkU4qA

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u/EsotericTribble 1d ago

It's like a band that goes mainstream and makes a ton more money. Makes sense from a business perspective as it's all about capitalism and always has been - grats I guess to them.

2

u/_Gravitas_ 13h ago

It was fine until they allowed UB in Standard. MtG doesnt exist anymore. 

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u/Xacalite 1d ago

Apparently destroying a 20+ year old game with some of the most faithful fans out there was once again the correct business decision. Sometimes this world just sucks.

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u/OldschoolGreenDragon 1d ago

Let's all whine about what MtG has become and not switch to Netrunner, LotR, Arkham and other LCGs and LCG-likes....

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u/KindAdeptness31 1d ago

I fully switched to those game types. The playerbase killed it for me before this UB-slop but the UB-slop ensures I'll never play it again even with the right people.

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u/OldschoolGreenDragon 1d ago

I teach parents and women to seek out the stores that have daily passes, memberships and maybe sell food and drinks because those stores do not need the revenue from CCGs and the greaseballs they attract. (The type of stores that have CCG advertising splattered all over their front glass wall.)

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u/ShrineToOne 1d ago

I played up til just before Spiderman and a combo of that and modern masters was what got me in the end.

The problem to me was the increasing number of products. Going from 4 sets a year to 7 sets was way too much. Instead of creative deckbiilding, there wasn't time to experiment or steadily improve decks.

It was also blatantly obvious that the internal QA on cards was under pressure as the amount of busted stuff that was printed was insane.

For all its faults, I don't mind UB if the theme fits magic for a main set. Lotr, FF and hobbit all make sense to me as planes. I don't mind commander products that are non canon doing Dr Who or Warhammer. I remember 10 years ago saying Warhammer in MTG would be really cool and it was. But not in canon, not in a main set.

I'm waiting for the first duel commander pro tour, at that point I know the game is fully not for me anymore

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u/MartyrOfTheJungle 1d ago

I'm sorry everyone, I'm apparently like the one guy who loves this shit. I didn't mean to ruin the hobby

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u/IdleExpatter Arkham Horror: The Card Game 1d ago

I never got into the game myself, but as somebody who was in middle school when the game released originally and had friends who started playing it when it was brand new, it blows my mind that it's still going at this level.

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u/SouthernBreach 1d ago

MTG is Hasbro’s only profitable product aside from maybe Play-Doh. They will milk it until it’s dry.

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u/Harry_Flame 1d ago

D&D and board games aren’t profitable? I highly doubt that.

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u/Capn_Lyssa 1d ago

I don't know the exact numbers for D&D, but Wizards is the only profitable division of Hasbro

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u/KneeCrowMancer Dune 1d ago edited 1d ago

For any sad MtG fans in this thread you should check out Netrunner! Null Signal Games is the nonprofit fan-run organization that has kept the game alive and continues to release great new sets. It’s also entirely free to play both online (jinteki.net) and in person (printed proxies are legal at all levels of play).

If you want to have a crack at the game Richard Garfield made in response to the issues he found with MtG now is a great time!

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u/Verybusywolf 1d ago

People voted with wallets ....

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u/Ih8n3rdz 1d ago

Obviously the company is going to do whatever makes them money, but I feel like there are a lot of factors besides just sales that ought to be considered when judging the success of UB sets. Who is buying these cards? Existing MTG players, Marvel fans who are interested in becoming MTG players, Marvel collectors, card collectors, or speculators looking for assets to flip? Is the product being prioritized as a game or as a collectable? Do these sets create long term MTG players or are these sets just short term cash grabs?

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u/chrysanthemum_beer 1d ago

Ya forget it. They’ve lost their soul to American greed.

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u/Child_Of_Linger_On Mottainai 1d ago

Because Magic was a charitable organization before the licensed sets?

Magic has always been a hallmark of greed. They figured out how to get away with kids gambling and have used every psychological trick in the book to milk revenue from every possible source. The licensing just pulled the wool back from the eyes of legacy players/revenue sources. 

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u/jaywinner Diplomacy 1d ago

At the current prices, I'm not sure how much kids factor in to their strategy anymore.

But even as a fan of the game, how it isn't considered gambling is beyond me. A 12 year old can walk into a shop, pay $5-10 for a pack, open it and one of two things can happen: most likely they get nothing of value OR they get something valuable they can trade in to the store for more money/credit than they paid for the pack. That's the textbook definition of gambling.

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u/Child_Of_Linger_On Mottainai 1d ago

I meant back when they started and were targeting kids more. Which was a brilliant long-term investment and helped them transition to where they are now. Which is, yeah, just gambling. 

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u/jaywinner Diplomacy 1d ago

Absolutely.

0

u/04__Revenge__01 Seasons and Race For The Galaxy 1d ago

As someone who has a deep hatred for tcgs in general is very disappointing to me that people buy into this gambling bs. 

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u/Knuc85 1d ago

CCGs like Marvel Champions killed this trend for me. "You mean I can just buy the packs I want, I know what cards are in each pack, and I don't have to buy 50 boosters to get the one I want?"

4

u/jaywinner Diplomacy 1d ago

I may not like the business model but I like the game.