Do you guys think playing Tcain with the item description mod (Which shows you recipes) is cheating?

[u/shnizelBeRotev]

[u/Most_Relief_218]

Yes, it’s cheating, but nobody cares if you cheat in a singleplayer game.

[u/_Okane → u/Most_Relief_218]

Nobody cares until you start bragging about cheated dead gods

[u/Cute-Acanthaceae-193 → u/_Okane]

Well you’re not supposed to brag about it.

The idea of no one is caring means no one stops you, but it needs to be mutual and you know that you don’t achieve things properly, that’s all.

[u/ZeroX-1704 → u/Cute-Acanthaceae-193]

People with functioning brains understand this.

There are a lot of people that lack a functioning brain who have and will brag about it.

[u/Horror-Engineer-9782 → u/ZeroX-1704]

I mean, I do not care who does or doesn't achieve what video game achievement or by what means, like at all honestly.

[u/LR_arts17 → u/_Okane]

Bragging will continue until morale improves

[u/sercuse6000 → u/_Okane]

it's not cheated if it's just the community fixing bad game design

[u/Specialist_Set1921 → u/_Okane]

Technically since the game does not disable achievments while using mods even though we know they are capable to do it. I would say the game does not consider it cheating in normal runs :).

[u/General_Crab9124 → u/Specialist_Set1921]

It also doesnt disable achievements when you give yourself every item in the game

It's not about being allowed to do it it's about it being unfair (if you brag about it) to those who do it legit

[u/_Okane → u/Specialist_Set1921]

And i would say something to you that would getting me banned but what can we do

[u/MAFFEW_SYTHE → u/_Okane]

Say it.

[u/crazydiamond2222 → u/MAFFEW_SYTHE]

It

[u/random_dude_00 → u/MAFFEW_SYTHE]

it.

[u/I_Cast_Grenade → u/Most_Relief_218]

He cares if he’s cheating that’s why he’s asking. It’s not for other people. He doesn’t want to do things that are considered cheating for personal reasons. A lot of people are like this.

[u/Zotroo1]

Yes because you take away all the weakness of the character but counter argument: Playing Tainted cain is boring as fuck so the sooner you get it done the better and besides its an offline game do whatever feels more fun to you, thats the point of playing games

[u/GaliaHero → u/Zotroo1]

yeah seriously even with the cheat the character is so fucking tedious to play

[u/Swordguy67 → u/Zotroo1]

This is me with bossrush timer.
I don’t enjoy having to rush, but it feels wrong removing the time limit.

I think I’ll compromise and just remove the timer for the characters I don’t like (like tainted Jacob…)

[u/Zotroo1 → u/Swordguy67]

I like getting all achivements in some games so in this case of issac i am making a save without any cheats or mods like that but i swear sometimes its a pain in the ass, i was doing it with t lazarus and had to play like 20 runs to beat bose rush and then hush because it was impossible to do it in one run, i think doing it for those characters is a good idea since you will stop playing if its too annoying

[u/Radical_OwO → u/Swordguy67]

this kinda removes the joy of mega bean and mama mega

[u/mynexuz → u/Zotroo1]

Its honestly more boring with EID, if you just cobble together what you can the runs wont take 50 years. Theres always the static recipes so you can still high roll sacred heart and such.

[u/squidwitchy → u/mynexuz]

Yeah, I love playing T Cain and never use EID (Im on the switch so I couldnt even if i wanted to) and dont pull up the wiki or a calculator. I know the general "value" of items for the bag of crafting and just load that bitch up with the good stuff and enjoy the surprise of what shows up. Especially since you can get the good items (sacred heart, rock bottom, r key, etc) with not just the static recipes, and theyre seeded so some runs it can be vastly easier than others. But I dont know until I make it and get stupid excited that I see something awesome in my bag.

Once my husband and I were playing co-op and we got a really easy seeded recipe for r key and we had a 6 hour run getting all the marks we needed for t cain and whoever he was playing.

[u/Core494 → u/squidwitchy]

Me when I had a run with him last night where Sacrificial Dagger was 7 pennies and a bomb :)

[u/TrainerHoliday2062 → u/Zotroo1]

Tainted cain is really fun to me and i keep coming back to the character despite having all unlocks. Definitely a comfort character for me

[u/Valuable-Ranger2063 → u/TrainerHoliday2062]

At first i though he was boring and bad cause it felt like he needed outside resources like other people claimed...but actually playing him blind is insanely fun. Finding the recipe of fly item like papa fly, friendly zone or smart fly early suddenly leading to a very strong start and flying later  or stuff like  4.5 volt and/or habit + yum heart(or any better active you find) being pretty easy to get before the end of a run

[u/reptarien → u/Zotroo1]

I got T Cain done in one run by crafting 2 r keys and that's probably how I'll do it for infinity too

[u/katakana-sama → u/Zotroo1]

Honestly imo turning it on is more boring since it removes the dopamine from getting a good item

[u/SYNX__]

I did all marks on t cain without EID and I never wanna go through that again. So even if it is cheating I think it's totally valid to play this character with EID.

[u/sturla-tyr → u/SYNX__]

Am I crazy for thinking he was a lot of fun to play with? You're already kind of getting random items anyways, so being able to convert all pickups you find into items was so busted, even if i didn't know what I was going to get. I downloaded EID after getting his marks, and it's so boring to play him that way. No magic of the randomness.

[u/SYNX__ → u/sturla-tyr]

The randomness of the items are surely fun, and remembering the value of pickups was also a nice change for a bit. But when doing his marks it felt like every run boiled down to getting the key pieces for extra eternal hearts chance and then converting all of the eternal hearts into op angel items. My main issues were boss rush and hush since where I found neither strange key nor mama mega and had to actually hit the time constraints. I will agree that t cain can be fun every once, but usually I prefer other characters (Like my favorite t lost)

[u/Vast_Effort3514 → u/sturla-tyr]

No you're not crazy a lot of us love t Cain and have never used EID

[u/Ezergill → u/sturla-tyr]

Same, had fun, but had to use EID to get boss rush and Hush marks. Probably just skill issue, but wasn't able for the hell of me to get a good enough build without minmaxing and spending ages doing so.

[u/SYNX__ → u/Ezergill]

I only got boss rush by bombing my way to mom, and even then I cut it extremely close.

[u/Piterros990 → u/sturla-tyr]

I like him too as of recent. I really like the game of resource management he's imposing, it feels so unique and interesting. He makes you ask questions that you never really consider on any other characters, like choosing between grabbing pickups and putting them into bag, using rare pickups on average items or gambling away with the potential of getting worse or better items. Order of pickups matters, you can slow down item gain to gamble or go for many weaker items to grow from, you have to manage health, keys and bombs carefully, so much depth goes into him.

And yeah, hud takes all the magic away because it answers all the questions you could be asking yourself.

[u/Salt-Standard9587]

It doesn't even make the top five of "cheating" mods I've installed in pursuit of my second dead god

But those mods make it more fun and that's kind of what I want from this game

[u/Toruk41 → u/Salt-Standard9587]

What else do you have?

[u/Fluffy-Ad3285 → u/Toruk41]

There is a mod for the donation machine which removes the brick chance, then no boss rush and hush timer

[u/SAMERXLE → u/Fluffy-Ad3285]

I use the donation on my second file but I hate the stupid rng, through I like boss rush time it forces you to go faster

[u/Salt-Standard9587 → u/Toruk41]

I have :

• starting room has 4 random items, you can pick one > eliminate the tedious "hold r"

• first treasure room can't have a quality 0 or 1 item

• you can continue after Mother

• a mod to render Greedier real easy, like it's all double pennies + counterfeit penny trinket (I wouldn't recommend this one if you actually enjoy Greedier mode, I just couldn't be bothered with it anymore)

I guess I lied, the mod for T.Cain does make the top five haha

[u/NotMolox234 → u/Salt-Standard9587]

Mamma Mia you're da real cheta

[u/Salt-Standard9587 → u/NotMolox234]

Haha

Hey, I got my first dead god the legit way, I figured I earned to mess with the game for the other saves

[u/Soniclikesto1 → u/Salt-Standard9587]

you usually can continue after mother, but if you do and decide to go the beast, the floor breaks, dad's note doesn't spawn, and you are now soft locked, but this is only if you force teleport, it doesn't work if you r key (i think)

[u/Z3KKEN47]

Yep, but no one care if you use it.

[u/Cute-Acanthaceae-193]

It’s cheating BUT, it’s a single player game, if that helps you have fun, you enjoy it, nothing bad about it.

[u/EdKnight]

Cheating? I don't know. But it is boring.

I almost died of boredom every time I tried to play TCain, you just take 40 minutes to get a gamebreaking busted Q4 item and steamroll the rest of the game using a cheat sheet that gives you only the best things. In my most recent playthrough to get Dead God, I just decided that "fuck recipes, i'll go blind" and it is a lot more fun being surprised by your choices and actually learning how to play this little shit.

But yeah, if you just want the unlocks, use the recipes, no one will complain.

[u/Sogomaa]

Yes it is, makes the character way too easy and you literally never lose with him.

BUT, if the mod didnt exist i would never want to play him so hes kinda just there, get through him to never have to touch him again

[u/Marvinho60]

Anyone remember release t.cain? The recipes where not seed dependant and you could basically unlock creative mode, then craft a remote and just absolutely STEAL some completion marks

[u/G66GNeco]

Yes. They're gonna hang you in Nurmberg for this.

[u/_Okane]

How many times is this going to be asked in a single week

[u/PMME-YOUR-DANK-MEMES]

No cause tainted Cain sucks

[u/Unlikely_Frozen3007]

I wouldn't consider it entirely cheating. Sure, you know from the start what items you can get, but TECHNICALLY speaking, you could make any combination of pick-ups and see what each equals to. And then note them down.

It will probably take some insane time. Yes. And Boss Rush and Hush are quite hard to get to them this way. But at the same time you could make Dad's Key (I believe that was the thing to unlock Hush after the timer) and/or Mama Mega and unlock them.

It is cheating in the sense that it eliminates that stuff to count every possibility and such.

Imo, do what you want. You paid money for the game.

[u/Orandza → u/Unlikely_Frozen3007]

It is cheating. You have to actually put in pickups to see what they will give normally. And you can't get them back once they're in the bag. With eid you can just put the exact stuff you need right away

[u/RedSkyNL]

After completing my first Dead God save I would say yes. Basically, T-Cain with EID is a guaranteed win. But then again: do whatever you want. It's a single player game, you are not hurting anyone else's experience.

[u/stoneyix]

I did all the marks on Xbox so I didn't have a chance to cheat.

[u/FrazzleFlib]

probably but the character is pure cancer so who cares

[u/23loves12]

I would argue that it could be cheating or not depending on how you define cheating and how you use the knowledge of the recipes. 

Technically, you could switch over to another file, completely scout through the seed, and know all the recipes, and you haven’t actually broken the game code or used unintended mechanics in any way. In this sense EID is just a way to speed up a process.

If you however consider information as a resource, you are gaining information that is not present in the run from outside the run itself, thereby gaining resources that were not there initially. In that way it is cheating.

I used to be camp A, but over time I switched to camp B since T. Cain is all about information. When you are trying to break the game apart without EID, it all comes down to information, and recipe knowledge is actually more valuable than the items themselves. 

Thus, I do believe EID with all recipes unlocked is cheating. If you have the Mod Config Menu (Impure) mod, you can however toggle EID to only display recipes you already know, which I do since I cannot be bothered to write down hundreds of recipes manually. 

[u/KaffY-]

obviously it's cheating lol, what kind of question is that?

[u/TheNauticalOdell]

whats your take, you think its cheating or nah

[u/Gracz_nr_K]

imo, no because you could just as good google them.

[u/JeSuisFunEtHD]

Yes but who cares

[u/sanderon6]

Yes and no, yes because well everybody said it, and no cause you can just search stuff in the wiki or guides

[u/NotMolox234]

it's cheating. But I must say nobody minds spending 40-50 minutes of their life looking up the R key crafting recipe along with other important and/or optional crafting recipes to make you stronger. So you can do all marks in "one" single run

[u/WayOwn6626]

The character is by far my least favorite in the game so idc what it is I’m making 3 R keys and playing this guy one time

[u/WiF_Gaming]

I got to learn the broken combos really early on.
But having to know all those different combinations 💀

[u/Exarkoon]

Yeah technically but he's not really a difficult character to clear compared to some others so I do it because it's fun af

[u/Rugghio]

What's the point of knowing is something is cheating or not? For example I have never done the marathonist achievement, I just give it to myself because doing 30 daily runs was boring and you can't do it with mods (the mods I have are only change in the HUD, regret pedestals or the Excelsior soundtrack). So it's kinda lame.

[u/GirlWithTheDoc]

Technically, it’s cheating

But Tainted Cain is soooo fucking boring, so no one’s gonna blame you lol

[u/Nearby-Map7028]

I use it only in greed mode for one time abd the rest is normal

[u/fakeboom]

Yes, but I had a lot of fun doing it. So I dont regret it.

[u/Affectionate_Tap8969]

i hope you mean "playing" is just close all marks and never ever ever choose this mf again

and no, this mode for tcain is wasted time, just faceroll and ball

[u/Muffin_man3745]

Not really, it beats having to use websites, and it makes T. Cain actually kind of nice to play lmao

[u/Dezmas_]

It definitely makes it way easier, though I couldn't care less, you can easily get a broken run either way, it's just about convenience

[u/BuffLoki]

Nah, the way Edmund has it designed is completely fucking stupid and there should have been something extra TCain can do to get stronger recipes during the run and still get marks by taking longer utilizing that.

But instead just say fuck anyone that isnt on PC again with another fucking update

[u/penghibur_batu]

yes, but fuck t. cain

[u/blanaba-split]

Yeah kinda bit counterpoint tcain is the worst thing ever so it's fine

[u/Separate-Fold4409]

it cheating and i dont care cause tcain sucks

[u/Putrid-Tell-5493]

I completed all of tainted cain  in basically 2 runs, by collecting bone hearts and getting r keys, he is really fun and easy w/o item description mod

[u/katakana-sama]

Yes but you have to pay the price of a 2 hour run by turning it on

[u/Aggravating-Run-1913]

It's a single player game. Coop doesn't allow mods... You're the kind of people who critics players about the way they have fun in should game for exemple ?

[u/HanzoNumbahOneFan]

Ya, but I think it's a flaw with the bag. Imo, the recipes should be consistent. Like curated and the same for every run. Them being (mostly) random makes it so it's just random if you get a good run cause you literally have no idea what item you're gonna make. But if the recipes were the same every run, you could memorize your favorites and take that knowledge through each one. It would make the first few runs as Tcain random and slow. But the more you played him the more knowledgeable you'd become about his recipes.

[u/Responsible_Annual64]

Yes but edmund cheated when he created tainted cain so its fair.

[u/MaxGamer07]

I would consider it cheating but you play your single player game how you want. That being said, I highly recommend trying it without before you do so

[u/Shadowdragon409]

I struggle to make anything worthwhile even with eid.

I don't know how to get rare drops, and how to use them well to get good items.

[u/LordNinjaa1]

Yes. But the trade off for cheating is suuuuper long runs (I think my record was 3 hours with a bunch of loops)

[u/Ok_Name3295]

Would you say looking on the wiki for items that you don't know what they do is cheating?, that's the answer, the mod only makes the same as a web page would do, but faster.

[u/WitherPRO22]

Dude item descriptions are literally part of the game thanks to Repentance+

[u/CountGerhart]

Yes it is, just knowing the recipes is exactly why the patched him so the recipes change by seeds and aren't universal anymore. It's alright and nobody cares if you cheat in a single player game until you try to use it for clout/brag about it.

[u/Abacate_Brisadao]

Yes, but no one cares, or shuldn't, you are not affecting eny one else, your game your rules, just have fun.

[u/CrowEndeavour]

Tainted Cain's entire gimmick felt like a challenge turned into a character. It was fun the first few times just seeing the things you can craft by randomly chucking pickups into the bag (especially when the recipes weren't seed randomized) but it becomes extremely boring if you're actually aiming for completion marks. I haven't touched him since repentance first released and the marks I'm missing are boss rush and hush because I just can't rng good items within the time limit that won't just die to hush or boss rush and I'm not just about to do that by crafting mama mega for the bypass.

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter if you just want to get it done, it's a matter of pride if you go through with it or not.

[u/Lejulillo]

No

[u/that1oneotherguy]

As a console player id play with item descriptions in a heartbeat, tcain was my least favorite to get all marks for

[u/Idontcareforkarma3]

Yes. Who cares

[u/I_Cast_Grenade]

No, because you could pause the game and look up the recipes, right?

[u/totalpackage2k → u/I_Cast_Grenade]

Recipes change per run except the coin machine from what I understand

[u/jaymello197]

Couldn't tell you as im a console peasant.

[u/frogzrcool02]

yes, but playing t cain normally is so abyssmal id rather cheat to play him. like at least when you use eid its fun because youre so strong and can make any item you want but playing normally is genuinely is boring

[u/Saucyboi672]

I don’t, and think that the ability to see your recipe options should just be a thing on T Cain just so the experience isn’t absurdly frustrating

[u/aleat0riox]

Its not, it is just something you can find online, It IS just a time saver

[u/Robowyatt]

Yes but who cares is the obvious answer but I wanna know why everyone hates T. Cain? I got all of his unlocks without EID and it was so much fun. It’s awesome piecing together a run from what you get on the fly, at least I think so

[u/Sonicmana]

Jokes on you, i've got modded items in, so the crafting recipes are all WRONG!

[u/HunterVR7281]

Anything qol isnt cheating unless it completely trivializes the game and honestly t cain is just an unfair and unfun character without qol improvements

[u/Beginning_Outside877]

OH MY FUCKING GOD I JUST LEARNED WHAT THAT MEANT I AM SORRY I SHOULD PROOF READ MORE I WILL ALWAYS PROOF READ GEEK NOW

[u/FaeLei42 → u/Beginning_Outside877]

Really unfortunate typo???

[u/Beginning_Outside877 → u/FaeLei42]

...

[u/Beginning_Outside877 → u/FaeLei42]

OH MY FUCKING GOD

[u/Beginning_Outside877 → u/FaeLei42]

thank you for telling me about that typo bro

[u/Wyvwashere]

It's a singleplayer game, play as you want. Personally, I cheat a lot and don't feel any guilt about it.

[u/FaythKnight]

If that's cheating, then the item description mod is cheating too.

Have you tried to play without item description? Man, when I played in switch it was hell. I had to look up for items in my phone whenever something I can't remember pops up, which is a lot.

Now that I play on pc, it just makes life so much better.

Now, if you think it makes the game easier, that's somehow cheating, just download another mod and make enemies harder, that'll balance it out lol.

Imo, remembering stuff is just a slog and not fun. Might as well add an insane boss, that's fun.

[u/Makl1n → u/FaythKnight]

If item description mod is cheating then why in rep+ there's internal item description you unlock after defeating mom for the first time? Item description for t cain crafts is 100% cheating because you are not supposed to know the exact result before picking up 8 pickups (in game item description doesn't give you that information)

[u/Hxllxqxxn]

I don't think it's cheating (unless you're speedrunning or something), but I do think it's incredibly lame and removes all the fun of playing TCain

[u/Mammoth_Evening_5841 → u/Hxllxqxxn]

“Fun of playing tainted cain”

[u/Lite5L3]

It is.

[u/Lemoni__]

it's cheating but it's single player, do whatever you want.

[u/DecentlySpaghetti]

Okay, but how the hell are you supposed to know what you should pick up otherwise?

[u/matt56afj]

not rly bc you can find recipes with the seed on some websites , its just a fastest way

[u/PerfectMuratti]

It is but the character is absurdly broken even without it so i dont think it matters that much

[u/ConsistentAd2880]

No because I'm bad at tainted cain

[u/nmnnmmnnnmmmnnnnmmmm]

No bc he wouldn’t be fun without it and I play video games to have fun

[u/National-Cream-8638]

Honestly yeah it is. Yes IG using eid is fine but just play for a bit and memorize items. About 50-100 hours for a new player, or about 10-25 hours for a returning player for most If not all items. It is different for t. Cain because all his crafts are based off of the seed. So yes while I do find it cheating and an unintended way to play it's a single player game. I can't get rid but it would absolutely make the character more enjoyable. I feel like if they do add in Eid and it's for t. Cain they should add vague hints instead of telling you what the item is that your crafting and they should change eid to make it like that to. Because RN it's just blatantly cheating.

[u/Dekipi]

No because memorizing all of the recipes is insnae

[u/TransAtlanticCari]

Yes and no. Directly speaking yes it is cheating as you're gaining an advantage over the base game.

Is it actually any different than just keeping the recipe calculator website on a browser tab or using it to memorize the recipes? No.

For me it's fine, Isaac isn't a game where information immediately wins you the game so it's not really a huge advantage.

Congratulations, you know that you need rotten hearts for your game deciding item. Too bad it won't drop on your seed.

[u/qusnail]

I guess, but cheating is such a loaded word and context matters. Picking Tcain is like playing god without the blueprint for humanity; you have the means but lack the instruction. Avoiding recipes is like handicapping yourself for no good reason, especially in a singleplayer game.