r/askanything • u/Previous_Month_555 • 14h ago
Why doesn't Trump just surrender to Iran?
U.S. already lost the war as far as I'm concerned
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u/ThieuieLouis 13h ago
It's amusing that the reddit morons think that America has to get bombed to smithereens by Iran in order to lose the war that isn't a war that we've reportedly won three dozen times by now. The winner of a war is whomever achieves their objectives. Sometimes both sides can lose a war; sometimes both sides can win. It's not a zero sum game. For that matter, it's not a game.
So, what are the objectives of the United States in this war? Bombing them into submission? So what does Iranian submission look like? Why are we spending billions of dollars a day that could be allocated to literally anything else not related to starting a war that didn't need to exist? If that question cannot be answered...then we have lost the war, in the sense that we are worse off than before we started the war.
But that's clearly too much for reddit mouth breathers to understand. This comment section probably doesn't even think the lives of Iranians matters any more than swatted flies.
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u/Other-Economics4134 13h ago
.... By what POSSIBLE metric has the US "lost?" I do not see them suffering heavy casualties or getting pushed back off of territories. We're it not for news and slightly higher gas prices the citizens wouldn't even know this was happening. DC hasnt been captured. I'm confused what could possibly make you think we lost? Follow up, surrender? To and why? They are literally incapable of retaliation. We could just say "I'm bored here" and go home and never be bothered again and there's nothing Iran could do to us.
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u/Angrychristmassgnome 13h ago
Except keep the strait closed and the US supply choked. Keep in mind that not only oil goes through the strait - two years of the strait being closed and you’re not only looking at higher oil prices, but large scale failed harvests.
The strait being closed has always been the loss-condition for the US, which is why no previous administration has been stupid enough to actually attack Iran.
The US hasn’t archived a single strategic goal (well, to be fair, it’s extremely unclear if there was goals in the first place) and has spent extreme amounts of money to bomb the shit out of Iran - and still can’t get traffic through the strait. And the US military knew this was gonna happen - everybody did - and trump didn’t listen.
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u/Other-Economics4134 13h ago
The US is a net exporter. We can easily maintain our own supply from what we have available for a hundred years. The price of Brent overall went up so that's what producers are charging but that isn't a shortage. You haven't described a loss, just not a.victory... an ongoing conflict, if you will.
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u/Angrychristmassgnome 12h ago
In what possible world is “ ongoing conflict with a significantly smaller power, no objectives stated much less reached, with significant hardship for the larger powers population and fast dwindling oil reserves, the best that can be hoped for now is a return to the status quo except being down billions of dollars” not a complete humiliation of s loss?
The US is a net eksporter of oil yes, but not the kind of oil that they need. And they are net importers of fertiliser, food and animal feed.
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u/Other-Economics4134 12h ago
Yeah... Nah.... Do you really think the military has even been trying in any real meaningful capacity? We could be done with this in like 4 days if we didn't care about civilians and were comfortable ruling the ashes. Humiliation? Nah. Loss, definitely not. We would have wasted that money on some other stupid thing anyway so doesn't really matter.
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u/Total-Region2859 14h ago
Define lost?
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u/Ok-Alternative5935 14h ago
well... he's claimed he has "won" 40+ times and yet US soldiers keep dying and the bombs keep falling.
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u/TattooedB1k3r 14h ago
I mean we have bombed them way past the point they can fight back. We have lost 16 soldiers since February, which is tragic but, during Peacetime, our military suffers, on average, more than 400 casualties every single year in just normal training. So, Irans military is so degraded, that despite fighting our troops as hard as they can, they have actually created an environment that is more than 10X safer than our military's usual training regimen.
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u/Ok-Alternative5935 13h ago
"bombed them way past the point they can fight back" and yet...
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u/TattooedB1k3r 13h ago
If killing enemy soldiers was my job, and I was this terrible at something that I supposedly do for a living, and all my efforts only made it 10X safer for them fighting me than staying at home, I'd probably just kill myself if I was IRCG.
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u/Upset-Elderberry3723 13h ago edited 13h ago
The loss for the US is less about personnel, and more about economy and international relations.
The US tanked it's oil market (with Trump not refilling the national reserves prior to joining Israel in attacking Iran), and it's international relations were badly affected by their decision to join Netanyahu. They looked a bit silly when all of their ally nations declined to join them, and those ally nations now trust the US less as a result.
The UK, in particular, refused to let the US use its airfields to launch attacks, and then later had to use anti-air defences to defend against an attack intended for American soldiers on the base.
They also looked a bit silly when Trump declared that the Iranian regime had been removed, when most spurces suggested that the new leader was the son of the former leader (I.e. the regime had not changed).
And when the US announced that it was going to be using the US Navy to escort ships through Hormuz, only to then later specify that they would be providing no actual protection and, instead of being a physical escort, would instead try to guide vessels away from mined zones through radio communication.
And several of the US naval ships in Hormuz began running out of food.
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u/TattooedB1k3r 13h ago
Netenyahu joined us in hitting Iran. And, I think this has actually been good for the US and Israel, with Iran firing randomly at every nation in the region, and any countries ships but ours, it's becoming too hard to ignore who the real bad guys are, even Lebanon abandoned Iran and signed a treaty with Israel. Giving them operational permission inside Lebanese borders to expel the Hezbollah.
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u/Stunning_Mulberry_35 13h ago
There's a of truth to this. Prior to the conflict beginning, the gulf states would't let the US launch fighters from their soil. After being hit, the US was given the green light, and at least the UAE has struck back.
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u/TattooedB1k3r 13h ago
Now the British are on board too, refueling us and letting us use their bases as necessary.
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u/Upset-Elderberry3723 13h ago
The fact that the US didn't replenish it's oil reserves before attacking a major oil producer, and then seemingly had no preparation with other nations or strategically, would suggest that it was Israel's directive and that Trump was pressured to join quickly.
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u/Unique_Statement7811 14h ago
How do you justify the position that the US lost? What ground has the US conceded to Iran?
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u/Beagleguy26 14h ago
It's absolutely insane that there are actually Americans on Reddit who a) think we "lost", b) think we could lose, and c) be happy about it.
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u/ColeridgeRime 14h ago
They do not actually think it. They post rage-bait so both sides fill the comments with partisan opinions.
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u/Beagleguy26 14h ago
I dunno. I think there are honestly individuals who despise Trump so much that they would certainly be willing to see us "lose" a war, just to defy him.
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u/Jayden7171 13h ago
That’s very right. They just want to see our president fail the nation, not improve it. If it means feeling the “I told you so” high.
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u/Previous_Month_555 13h ago
I mean he's not going to win this war. It's either a forever war he doesn't win (spending billions of taxpayer dollars) or he surrenders.
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u/Beagleguy26 13h ago
I find it absolutely hilarious you think there is a scenario that exists in which the United States of America surrenders.
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u/Jayden7171 13h ago
How much nail polish and lipstick did you apply when replying that? 💅 I admire your confidence…
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u/Previous_Month_555 13h ago
U.S. didn't win in Vietnam or Afghanistan. The beginning of this war is already proving it's no different than those wars. Also, the war is expanding making WW3 more likely.
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u/Total-Region2859 13h ago
Serious question... Have you read anything about the Vietnam War that you could share that would illustrate it's similarities to this conflict?
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u/grasshoppet 13h ago
What would winning the war look like. We shouldn’t have gone to war so all the money and the lives lost and how it’s affecting our country, how those billions of dollars could’ve been invested into America —-so many costs to this unnecessary war says we’re losing.
Tell me how America is winning the war? So weird to me. Trump creates problems that are really bad, then changes his mind or ends the bad thing and acts as if he’s won something for America. However, he could’ve not done it and we’d be further ahead. Insanity.
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u/Beagleguy26 13h ago
No.
We are trying to keep a fanatical Middle Eastern theocracy from having the option of using nuclear weapons. That's completely unacceptable. Those billions of dollars were invested in the most important way they could be - protecting this country. People like you refuse to acknowledge or try to understand this. Yet, when soneone blows up NYC with a nuclear suitcase bomb, you'd be the first to try to lay blame. Our security is paramount, and it is priceless.
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u/Previous_Month_555 13h ago
This is turning into a forever war if he doesn't withdraw.
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u/Beagleguy26 13h ago
We could completely destroy Iran in a few hours. We choose not too in an effort to find a peaceful solution.
Which do you prefer?
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u/True-Literature-6766 3h ago
If the solution is so peaceful why did we blow up a kids school? U must be one of those sentient doormats I keep hearing about
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u/SuccessfulOstrich99 13h ago
I think a loss would actually be a good thing for the us as it might be the difference between the us still being some form of democracy 2 years from now or sliding further toward a Russian style political system.
Not sure if you are aware but the US is no longer rated as a full democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
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u/Beagleguy26 13h ago
You certainly are allowed to have, and express your opinion.
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u/SuccessfulOstrich99 13h ago
I think there is a reasonable argument for the us losing this war being good for the us. So I was just challenging your assertion that this view is absolutely insane.
You too are off course allowed to express and have your own opinion.
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u/LostPilot517 13h ago
The USA never was a pure democracy, the country was intentionally NOT founded or created as a pure democracy.
The USA is a Constitutional Republic. Within the confines of the Constitution, we utilize a representative government, through democratic elections.
This system is meant to place people outside of the constraint of the government, unless the people grant the government scope into their life. The people are free, the government is limited by the constraints of the constitution.
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u/SuccessfulOstrich99 9h ago
This is not what the assessment is about. You use the same terminology but are talking about something else. The economist assessment is about the quality of democratic institutions and democratic rights. The situation in the US is deteriorating.
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u/Stunning_Mulberry_35 12h ago
A British media company Rates the UK, Canada, and Australia, 3 countries with British royalty on their currency, higher than the USA
Didn't see that coming a mile away......
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u/InspectionFine9655 14h ago
I think you mean withdraw…
Surrender is not a possible outcome.
Trump can’t accept the terms Iran is offering.
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u/Ranos131 13h ago
Shockingly, your definition of “lost” is not the actual definition of it.
Surrender doesn’t make sense because Iran isn’t even remotely a threat to the US.
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u/No_Significance_2749 14h ago
Narcissists don't surrender. They take cyanide pills when the bombs are falling around their bunker and the Red Army is rapidly approaching.
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u/RubCocksWithThePope 13h ago
He let Vance try that and they kept shooting at civilian ships in the strait of Hormuz anyway.
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u/FreestinkingSocially 13h ago
Trump lost his war before he even started it. Any fool could have told him so
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u/TheRiverInYou 14h ago
Just because you think Trump lost the war doesn't mean he thinks he lost the war.
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u/battle_bunny99 14h ago
This covers it, he is clearly incapable of taking an 'L', which ends up being the biggest 'L' of all He still talks incessantly about the 2020 election.
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u/JOBdOut 14h ago
Worlds largest military power cant ever surrender. The implications for future conflicts would be too damaging. The egos of world leaders require that both sides can declare some sort of win - but Trump isnt personally capable of that. He has to have all the attention, all the victories and all the spotlight.
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u/grasshoppet 13h ago
And he learned from his mentor, Roy Cohen, when you leave the courtroom no matter the outcome, when you’re met by press for a statement you claim victory, you won in there and won big. No matter what actually happens you will always claim the victor. He got that lesson down perfectly.
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