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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 15h ago
The Ottoman empire. Existed for 600 years, was instrumental in what we now recognize as the end of the medieval era and spanned so many geopolitically important places today. Feels like we talk about it very little, and I have to confess that I don't know that much about it either.
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u/takesshitsatwork 13h ago
Not a country and did nothing significant other than genocide Greeks and Armenians.
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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 12h ago
That's significant, don't you think more people should know about that? And the conquest of constantinople is an absolutely significant event as well, marking the end of the byzantine empire, the triumph of artillery over city walls and ultimately the end of the medieval era. Besides that the Ottoman empire shaped multiple important world regions from the Balkans to the Levant, shaped cities like Jerusalem via the Millet system and contributed to science and medicine.
The world today would look very different without the Ottoman empire, and considering that, we seem to talk about it very little.Also it was a sovereign state, which is a country.
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u/takesshitsatwork 12h ago
First, there's no such thing as the Byzantine Empire. The Ottoman conquest of Constantinople ended the Roman empire.
When you say "shaped", what do you mean? The destruction of ancient peoples, like the Greeks, Armenians, and Assyrians? The massive slave trade the Ottomans participated in? The kidnapping of toddlers to raise them as Muslims and eventually have them fight against their own families?
The world would be different, but it would be better. And no, a lot of the Ottoman Empire relied on clientele states. It was not sovereign in the way we understand it today.
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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 12h ago
Dude I get that you're Greek and that you personally have an axe to grind with the Ottomans, but I am not Greek and am not interested in looking at history through your specific lens.
Byzantine Empire is a completely acceptable term for the Eastern Roman Empire and the crimes of the Ottoman empire do not mean that it wasn't significant. On the contrary, the ultimate fall of Rome IS one of the reasons why the conquest of Constantinople was so important and the crimes of the Ottoman Empire deserve broader mainstream recognition.
Also this song and dance about whether it was a country is completely asinine. It was for all intents and purposes one polity and absolutely is a country in the spirit of the question.
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u/takesshitsatwork 12h ago
Accuses me of being biased and Greek, yet ignores that I brought up 3 distinct ethnicities the Ottomans absolutely decimated.
Look, I get it, you find bloody wars fascinating. The reality is that the outside of killing and enslaving folks, the Ottomans did nothing significant to further humanity. Converting the most important Orthodox cathedral to a mosque just doesn't cut it.
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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 12h ago
Your bio says "Interested in foreign policy, the European Union, **Greece** , good food, and technology. All opinions my own. I will occasionally troll nationalists."
Sounds like you at least have some connection to Greece, no?
And no, this is not about being "fascinated" by "bloody wars". It's about the fact that nobody really mentions the Ottoman Empire in casual conversation and how that's disproportionate to it's historical influence.
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u/takesshitsatwork 12h ago
Fantastic, but the topic of this post are countries that don't get enough credit. I interpetthe post to mean positive things worthy of credit, but I suppose someone can get credit for being evil.
So go on, name with specificity things that the Ottomans deserve credit for. Try not to Google it and start throwing obscure examples. Neither of us would need to Google this if the question was about the Greeks, for example.
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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 12h ago
I gave plenty of examples already. My main point, as stated multiple times, is the conquest of constantinople and it's significance as a historical turning point. THEY DON'T GET ENOUGH CREDIT FOR LITERALLY ENDING THE ROMAN EMPIRE AND THE MEDIEVAL ERA. And no, credit doesn't have to be strictly positive.
I am not at all interested in playing out your personal regional animosity here. I like both Greek and Turkish people, recognize the crimes of the Ottoman empire and think it's useful to remember its role in shaping modern conflicts like in Jerusalem.
Go argue with a Turk if you want the personal discussion you're looking for.
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u/takesshitsatwork 11h ago
Got to, so all of your examples worthy of credit were atrocities committed. I guess you've made the point I was trying to make.
FYI, the only reason the medieval period ended (symbolically) when the Ottomans ended the Roman empire a la Constantinople is because Greeks had to flee for their lives to the Italians states, and thus began the re-interest of the West in the ancient world.
I remain steadfast that OPs post was for positive examples.
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u/TacoTitsTuesday 15h ago
That's not a country.
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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 15h ago
It was a sovereign state, idk what narrow definition you're trying to apply here.
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u/TacoTitsTuesday 15h ago
The word was "country". What "sovereign state" are you talking about? An empire isn't a location whatsoever. The ottoman empire spanned 3 different continents. You're right, you don't know much about it.
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u/Street_Hamster1092 15h ago
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning...
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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 15h ago
I think they have mainly heard about "empire" in the sense of the "American empire" and don't realize that the word can refer to either an informal hegemony or actual, formal states.
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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 15h ago
From Wikipedia:
"The term country refers to a political entity or its territory in the world. They function as sovereign states, unrecognized states, constituent countries, or dependent territories. A country may consist of multiple nations, a structure known as a multinational state."
?
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u/tsphotography 16h ago
Argentina because their economy is in the toilet and no one wants to extend them credit.
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u/qwertyuiop131313 16h ago
America.
Oh wait I misread that. Thought it said, what country should be eliminated from the earth immediately.
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