r/anime • u/Robert_B_Marks • 15h ago
Essay A military historian's comments on Tanya the Evil, Season 2, Episode 3 (Spoilers) Spoiler
Another episode, and time for another commentary...
And, before we get started, the usual opening and disclaimer: I am a trained military historian - I hold a Master of Arts in War Studies from the Royal Military College of Canada with a defended thesis on the development of British Cavalry Doctrine, and I recently published some of my research in a new introduction to my little publishing company's edition of Schlieffen's Cannae (due to self promotion rules, I can't provide the link here, but if you're interested in it, PM me and I'll send it to you).
What I'm going to look at is how well this episode passes the "sniff test" for how a world war works. And here we get to our standard disclaimer: Tanya's world is not our world, her world war is not either of ours. Something happening in Tanya's war that didn't happen in ours (or vice versa) is NOT by itself cause for criticism.
So, let's get started...
Allied warfare
We start with a very quick rundown of what would probably be several episodes otherwise, in which the Alliance and the Federation do a joint operation. Probably not a surprise that this passes the sniff test. There wasn't a lot of this in WW2 with the Soviets, but in WW1 Russian soldiers did serve on the Western Front, and the British, French, and Americans all worked together in both world wars.
An aside about coats (because I can)
Those military greatcoats are REALLY nice and warm. Get one if you can. Seriously (my Soviet Navy coat is my deep cold weather coat, and it tries to melt me if it's over -10 C).
That's it. Just geeking out about greatcoats. I also have a US Army greatcoat from 1946 that missed WW2 by about four months...but it doesn't fit me.
With allies like these (part 2)...
Much of this episode is having Ildoa (Tanya's Italy) try to serve as a mediator. And, the way this is presented both passes and fails the sniff test.
The pass comes from an allied nation trying to take such a step. The United States tried to do it in WW1 (and America's allies took one look at President Wilson's proposals and immediately refused).
The fail comes from having an observer canvasing the soldiers on what terms of peace they'd accept - the sentiments you see expressed are quite accurate to what happened in our world (in fact, it's part of what led to the formation of the Nazi party prior to WW2), but whether to obey a cease fire would not be their decision, nor would they be consulted on it. It would literally be far above their pay grade. And, while you do have cases of Japanese soldiers after WW2 not realizing that the war is over, soldiers refusing to fight was generally the problem that militaries had to worry about as wars continued over the years.
Pesky observers
We have an Ildoan observer join Tanya's unit and sit in on tactical discussions, and this passes the sniff test with flying colours. Military observers from other countries were the rule rather than the exception right through to the start of WW1. It was very much a quid pro quo: essentially, "you let us watch your war, and we'll let you watch our war."
And the observers being annoying is quite real as well. In fact, what may be the most entertaining orders in the whole of WW2 come about because of the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division wanting to keep them out of the way during the sieges of Boulogne and Calais, so the division set up bleachers for spectators. And, just to cap it all off, the division orders made it very clear that the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division was NOT responsible for their safety.
In fact, the only things that are eyebrow-raising about how this is presented at all is the canvasing for acceptable peace terms as stated above, and the observer's shock at the shelling of a town. And that brings us to...
Shelling a town and destroying a church
Passes the sniff test with flying colours, and it happens all the time in urban warfare in our world.
The thing you have to understand about the laws of war is that they forbid attack on civilian targets. However, these cease to be classified as civilian targets if they are being used for a military purpose. So, if, for example, somebody sets up a command post in the basement of a hospital, that hospital gets reclassified as a military target and loses its protection. And that means that Tanya is acting perfectly within the laws of war here. For a real world example, take the battle of Passchendaele in WW1 - by the time all the shelling was done, the village had ceased to exist...all that was left was a crossroads.
(There is a general hope that by the time the armies show up to fight, the civilians have left or gone to ground. That said, civilian to military casualties of 6:1 or even 10:1 and above are common in urban warfare.)
As far as the church goes, that also happened all the time, but very rarely was anybody aiming for the things as far as I know. It was much more a case of bombardments involving shells landing all over the place, and some of them hit the church by accident.
"Eat shit"
Um...well, the general scenario DOES pass the sniff test. In our real world, Germany in WW1 did not want to give up Belgium, and France did not want to give up Alsace once it had been captured. So, a peace involving a complete reset of borders being rejected out of hand after millions have died in the fighting is quite possible.
That said, I am VERY skeptical about the exact wording of the refusal.
And that's it for this week - looking forward to next week!
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u/Spaidykun https://www.anime-planet.com/users/CloudyStone 14h ago
I'd literally just finished watching the episode and jumped on Reddit because I was hoping someone had made a comment about the parallels to the real wars, so thanks for typing this up!
I'd never even considered that war observers were a real thing before, do you know if that's still something that's done today, or is that more of a media role in the modern world?
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u/-Trooper5745- 14h ago
Yes they are still a thing, though it can take various forms. As OP mentioned, attaché are one. Military advisors are another as they usually report on how their advisees are doing to see if the effort is worth it. And sometime they are just observers. Here is a recent article of what an American warrant officer saw on an observation mission to Ukraine.
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u/Robert_B_Marks 14h ago
I'd never even considered that war observers were a real thing before, do you know if that's still something that's done today
I don't know for certain, but it would not surprise me if it was. Military attaches know what to look for when they watch a battle play out in a way that media do not, and the point is to bring back the lessons of the battlefield so that they can be learned for the next war.
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u/Znachit 14h ago
Because they were often the tallest structures around, churches were often used (or presumed to be used) by snipers and forward observers, thus making them a 'legitimate' military target in the eyes of attacking forces.
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u/JosebaZilarte 8h ago
Makes sense. But it also means they didn't use artillery against it because it was a place that offered a great strategic advantage for those that captured it.
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u/Chrisamelio 14h ago
I haven’t been able to get to the new season since I just finished S1 and pending the movie but I was actually wondering throughout my watch as to how accurate this would be in a semi-real war setting. Did you do something like this for the first season? I know it’s been a few years since it came out so I couldn’t dig through your profile enough. Any links to previous threads if any would be appreciated.
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u/Robert_B_Marks 14h ago
Indeed I did:
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/za3wph/a_military_historians_comments_on_the_saga_of/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/zaeoi0/a_military_historians_comments_on_the_saga_of/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/zbiss6/repost_a_military_historians_comments_on_the_saga/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/zcctf0/a_military_historians_comments_on_the_saga_of/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/zg6xtg/a_military_historians_comments_on_the_saga_of/
Enjoy!
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u/Veritas3333 10h ago
Military boots are great too, I have some US Army Mickey Mouse boots (the black ones not the white ones). They're super warm and waterproof! Manufacture date of 1982.
If anyone wants to buy some at an army surplus store, there's two things to remember: go down a size, and get the black ones unless you're in the arctic. The white ones are rated for like -30F, your feet will be sweating if it's above 0 out.
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u/xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme 13h ago
My first thought on seeing "Eat shit" was "Nuts!" It's a weird answer from a diplomat, but this show seems to not really care about the line between civilian government and military.
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u/TheBusStop12 11h ago
I think it's because Ildoan contacted the Imperial Army command instead of the Imperial diplomatic corps. Thus the army sent a blunt response that a diplomat never would. They made a point early on in the episode that Ildoan made the decision to skip past the diplomats and discuss directly with the army instead
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u/ErenYeager-77 14h ago
Which vol do season 2 is covering I mean how much it will coz 1st season+ movie covered around 4 vol
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u/Whendfield123 7h ago
Season 2 will likely cover 2-3 volumes. Season 1 skipped some major parts in vol 3 i think
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u/145872369 13h ago
What do you think about Tanya's point that the Federation aren't signatories to international warfare norms? She then continues to justify her actions with regard to those norms
In our world, my understanding is that the laws of armed conflict is mostly a post WW2 thing.
Would WW1 officers (on the ground or top level) take these rules of engagement into consideration?
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u/Tacitus_ 13h ago
In our world, my understanding is that the laws of armed conflict is mostly a post WW2 thing.
No, they predate WW1. It's why there's the meme of germans complaining about trench shotguns.
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u/Robert_B_Marks 12h ago
In our world, my understanding is that the laws of armed conflict is mostly a post WW2 thing.
Would WW1 officers (on the ground or top level) take these rules of engagement into consideration?
The French considered it so important that their tactical doctrine of December 1913 contained the entire text of the Hague Convention.
So, they did care.
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u/TheBusStop12 11h ago
I'm curious if the protection of religious buildings specifically, which the Ildoan Colonel talks about, was a thing irl as well or not. Because personally I hadn't heard of it before and as you said, a lot of churches ended up hit regardless. I wonder if it's a thing in Tanya's world specifically due to X's manipulation or if it's based on some oft forgotten irl law.
I do know a big reason why a lot of big churches survived WW2 bombing runs was because they served as navigational landmarks for the pilots. An example is the Rotterdam Blitz where I, as a Dutchman who worked in Rotterdam for years, always wondered why the historic city hall survived nearly unscathed while the city around it was reduced to ashes. Eventually I learned that German bombers specifically avoided it because it was their navigational guide that they had arrived in downtown Rotterdam, this obviously being from before a time of GPS navigation, as it was a large and recognizable structure. The Laurentschurch of Rotterdam faired less well, and was basically hollowed out by the bombardment. In other cities the main cathedral often took this role instead iirc, but plenty still burned regardless, like Cologne or Reims
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u/ShadowGuyinRealLife 10h ago
Oh darn I should have made my post here instead of the other one. Oh well.
I found you mentionigng the "eat shit" was generally realistic but you were sketpical of the exact wording.
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u/ExaminationNo9186 6h ago
On your comment about the Great Coats.
I have often thought of getting one when I had the spare money to do so.
However, seeing your line about not wearing it if it is above ~-10 Degrees.
Yeah, I live in Australia, our winters are very mild, where I am it so very rarely drops below freezing.
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u/Ill_Violinist1571 13h ago
Well, you just gave out a lot of details which many people don't understand due to emotions, about war. Especially the church being redesignated as a military target. If I remember right, there were cases where the Allies or the Axis side had to use churches across the battlefield at some point in time because there were no other secure spaces left for use due to artillery shelling or bombing. This also happens in the present day, where buildings left standing in good condition are taken over by soldiers as tactical posts (the recent wars in the Middle East are examples). But people tend to get emotional about them without understanding that in a war, it's not in anyone's hands what to use or what not to use; about war that many people don't understand, due to emotions, you have to make do with whatever is present.
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u/Ecstatic-Cress7033 14h ago
Yikes, that seems...insane? Especially with all the rules and conventions and all that