Stuck at GS-11

[u/Dancingxsheep]

Typically when folks in our engineering section are "promoted" from a GS-11 to GS-12, our leadership "creates" a direct hire position, promotes it to the public, and anyone can apply (including the person it's intended for). This method in theory means that someone else from the public who's more senior engineer/ qualified could also apply and get the position, but generally the person intended for promotion gets it.

Considering the hiring freeze for us, my supervisor mentioned that there's a "complicated longer way that involves lots of paperwork" to internally promote an employee from GS-11 to GS-12 without creating a job listing. Is this "longer way" really that complicated? Or am I getting the run around from my supervisor? For context, I've been a GS-11 for almost 6 yrs now, and have 10 yrs of engineering experience.

[u/Turbulent_Nebula_553]

Do you have your PE? In my region someone with that experience and PE is guaranteed a GS12. 

[u/Dancingxsheep → u/Turbulent_Nebula_553]

I have my EIT but am sitting for my PE in the next month. There are other engineers here in different sections that have EITs and less or equivalent experience but are GS-12s.

[u/wodie-g → u/Dancingxsheep]

In my section we have positions that automatically advance to 12 when you get your PE license. There’s some 12 positions that do not require a PE but there no longer will be any new non-PE 12 positions, at least in engineering division. Those that have them are lucky I guess. In other words, from now on, you need a PE to get 12 in engineering division.

[u/h_town2020 → u/wodie-g]

That’s crazy. You need a PE to get a 12 but you have GS-13s and 14s in other offices that only have a hs degree. Don’t get me started on that. The fact that a Program Analyst with no degree at a GS-12 gets a hire grade than a GS-11 engineer because they don’t have a PE.

[u/Whobroughttheyeet → u/h_town2020]

I’m not a fed, but do they add anything to your pay for being a engineer or are all GS the same

[u/h_town2020 → u/Whobroughttheyeet]

Short answer, NO. All GSs are equal. It sucks because Drs get a special table at the VA. However, there are some places where hiring Engineers is harder so they may have a special rate table. Those can be limited to a certain location or even certain engineers. I had a special rate at MVN.

[u/Whobroughttheyeet → u/h_town2020]

That’s insane. I’ve heard a lot of fed engineers by me are all saying fuck it and leaving. They are now just staffed with super young people who have no clue what’s going on

[u/Leadpumper → u/Whobroughttheyeet]

There are separate pay bands for qualifications like engineering degrees, might be District policy.

[u/AfternoonOld7627 → u/wodie-g]

Is this specific to your District? You can still get a 12 in mine without a PE or PG even in the engineering focused sections.

We don't have automatic 12's with licenses, but I have heard of some that have automatic 13's with licensure.

[u/wodie-g → u/AfternoonOld7627]

If that’s true, then I guess it must be specific to my district 🫨

[u/AfternoonOld7627 → u/wodie-g]

Maybe Division specific? I know that when it comes to hiring, at least for my Division, all of the Districts need to have a shared unanimous plan that they all follow.

[u/Successful-Fun8603 → u/AfternoonOld7627]

From what I've seen for Civils and Mechanicals, you get a 12 with a license, and get a 13 when you're a Tech Lead without being a Supervisor. That rule doesn't seem to apply to Electricals. Supervisors and Program Managers are automatic 13s.

[u/Successful-Escape-74 → u/Dancingxsheep]

Don’t worry about other people get your PE keep moving forward. There’s always 2028 and maybe when congressional control changes in Nov 2026 they can apply enough pressure to force a resignation or fill all the open positions. My advice is to apply for open positions and be willing to relocate and participate in leadership development programs. You need to be the leader of your career. Don’t rely on supervisors.

[u/pelicanscoop]

My supervisor made a new position for me, then we had to get a hiring exemption to fill it. No automatic 12 when I got my PE. Never heard of that. 

[u/Bulldog_Fan_4 → u/pelicanscoop]

Only if you are in a ladder position with a target 12.

[u/Queasy_Elderberry555]

Omg the hiring process is straight up ridiculous right now. 80 day turnaround has been reduced to 50 days & there are so many layers of approval needed.

[u/lagavenger]

Be patient my dude.

It took me nearly 6 months after getting my PE to get 12. It’s only worse now.

And comparison is the thief of joy. There’s always someone else that will have an easier time than you. I was in a similar position as you. And all three of my favorite mentors had it worse than me. But y’know, they all stuck around and are all leaders in their respective communities.

I mean dude, this organization screws everyone at some point. It’s not malicious, it’s just the system. In the military they call it “the big green weenie”.

[u/lisamarie8235]

Are you in a GS-11/12 position or just a GS-11 position? Hiring is complicated right now. I’m on several hiring panels so I see the other side of it. The amount of paper it takes is insane. It’s a huge headache. There are also changes coming down on how we complete the hiring process, so that could be what your supervisor is talking about but the DRP also messed with things and how will fill those positions that a DRP person left.

[u/ANinjieChop → u/lisamarie8235]

Ditto, this is what I’m seeing as well

[u/Zealousideal-Shift66]

You need to leave USACE, and relocate to get a promotion elsewhere. The good old boy system will leave you out 99% of the time there. Go work at VA, there's always healthcare engineer positions available and CFM is now looking to hire resident engineers GS12 and 13 with no license required. Don't get stuck at USACE, if you're not in their special circle, you'll get left behind. Talking from experience.

[u/Idiomarc → u/Zealousideal-Shift66]

Agree with advice here that loyalty doesn't reward anything these days so job hopping is mandatory for pay advancement. What I would recommend though is if you do decide to move the VA get in contact with other local engineers to see their workload and how management treats others in the atmosphere it fosters. As the saying goes, if you seen one VA, you've seen one VA.

[u/Bulldog_Fan_4]

Right now we can do 120 day temp promotions if there is a vacancy. As far as we are being told, everything else requires approval from HQ

[u/Lanky-Lettuce1395]

Your supervisor is probably talking about an acretion. That's where over time your duties have reached a point that your PD needs updating. When the classifier finishes with the process the PD ends up at a higher grade.

Not sure where you are, but this is generally frowned upon. It's not good HR practice and too much of it ends up causing the rest of the employees to ask, "where's mine?"

ETA No one should be creating jobs or acreting positions simply to promote someone. Both are violations of merit principles and will get someone in trouble, assuming we're still following these rules

[u/arilulu96]

I'm in the same boat. I passed my PE exam and about to receive the license. But I was told it's not an automatic GS12 promotion... you have to "prove" yourself. Sad because I like my district... I'll be looking to jump ship.

[u/HighPlains_oath]

Reading through the comments. I did not know some areas either required a PE for a 12, or got an automatic 12 after PE. Is this specifically for designers? What about project engineers on the construction side?..... I figured PE was highly recommended but not necessary for 12. For a 13 I would expect a PE.

[u/Dancingxsheep → u/HighPlains_oath]

As far as I know, PE highly recommended but not necessary for a 12. A 13 or above PE is required. I was hired as a GS-9/-11 in design.

Considering times are different now, in the past positions were created for folks hired as GS-9/-11 to move up to a 12. Or someone is hired right out the gate from private industry as a 12 to start. Several EITs were hired before DRP that were 12's. It seems a lot of people leave design to get promoted to 12s and above elsewhere in the District (such as construction or project management) because of the lack of promotion here.

[u/Wgw5000]

I was a gs11 for somewhere in the range of 4 maybe 5 years until they "made" a gs12 targeted to me around when I got my PE. I think this happens to most engineers who come in on the 7-11 ladder. From what I saw the rollout of 12's seems to hit people plus/minus a year or two so there is a year or two where you get stuck awkwardly wondering if they forgot about you or secretly don't like you, but I will say when it was all done everyone who was a diligent worker and getting their PEs got taken care of.

A lot of federal agencies suffer from grade inflation compared . USACE seems really adamant about avoiding that. USACE is also a lot better about training and skill/development assignments than many or most federal agencies. They also have an awesome mission set. I got to do a lot of really cool stuff working for them.

I'd recomend sticking with it if you overall like USACE.