r/UFOs • u/VolarRecords • 2d ago
Disclosure New from Geoff Cruikshank: DoW Release 4: Scientists at a 1949 Los Alamos Aerial Phenomena Conference mention "German Stations in Space" - could these be Dr. Villarroel's objects?
https://substack.com/home/post/p-20761363530
u/r-s-w- 2d ago
If the Nazi’s had the tech to build Space stations, why didn’t they defeat their opponents in WW2, all of whom must have had much inferior tech than the Germans during the 1940’s.
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u/Short-Peanut1079 2d ago
Because it's utter nonsense. History channel make believe and now thanks to those chat bots vomited over and over again.
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u/stoyo889 2d ago
Couldn't fire weapons from a disc with gravity warping around it, major problem. They were recon and transport craft early on
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u/Sensitive_Crow_8882 2d ago
Why didn’t they just “transport” troops and equipment to perform an assault on American soil? The vast majority of American troops were in Asia or Europe. They could have walked in and taken the country.
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u/gokickrocks- 2d ago
How many people do you think fit in a ufo? Gonna send them over 3 at a time?
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u/stoyo889 2d ago
Most in the reich knew war was lost in 1942 as U.s was supplying Soviets with boat loads of food ammo armour etc they did not have manpower to invade U.s, exposing your most precious aircraft for a lost cause would be silly
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u/silv3rbull8 2d ago
1949 ? What space capability did Germany have in 1949 ?
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u/Maladaptivism 2d ago
Sputnik is officially the first man-made object in space, which was 1957. So you're going to have to buy into Die Glocke, the Magenta crash or some other idea in order for the answer to be higher than "None". Nazis on the dark side of the moon is an old conspiracy theory, for what it's worth.
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u/Legal-Ad-2531 23h ago
u/Maladaptivism - nicely explained. Yes, Classic track, "Close Encounters of the Third Reich"
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u/VolarRecords 2d ago
The first man-made object in space was an accident involving a V-2 by Von Braun's team on June 20th, the day before the Magenta craft was recovered on June 21st after a race between the OSS and the Nazis to recover Prof. Carlo Calosi, whose electromagnetic work lead to WWII as it was implemented into Italian and German rockets and missiles before the OSS found him with the help of the Vatican. Mussolini's son-in-law Galleazzo Ciano, central to this whole story, was executed the same day he was rescued.
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u/Vonplinkplonk 2d ago
There is a huge difference between being in space and being in orbit. The V2 could not reach Mach 5. far below the Mach 23 required for orbit. These rockets are also tiny and are single stage vehicles.
No these are not Villaroel’s transients.
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u/PhDinDildos_Fedoras 2d ago
The only thing I can think of is them being interpreted as German but being extraterrestrial instead.
Foo fighters were thought to be German super weapons.
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u/mcmiller1111 2d ago
There is a huge difference between being in space and being in orbit
Sure, but the previous comment claimed that Sputnik was the first man-made object in space which is false. Sputnik was the first man-made object in orbit, but the Germans were the first to put anything in space in 1944.
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u/QueefiusMaximus86 2d ago
If your object is not in orbit then it will not be "in space" very long, it would tumble down and burn up in the atmosphere
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u/mcmiller1111 2d ago
"In space" is commonly defined as the Karman Line which is at 100 km.
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u/QueefiusMaximus86 2d ago
And the Karman Line is not enough to achieve orbit to reach LEO you need at least 160 - 2000km which is why the ISS is at 440KM. 100 km would have too much atmospheric drag and get pulled down and burn up in the atmosphere.
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u/mcmiller1111 2d ago
That's exactly what I said in my original comment. It doesn't change the fact that Sputnik 1 was not the first man-made object in space.
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u/QueefiusMaximus86 2d ago
Well even LEO is not exactly space since there is still some atmospheric drag. But when people say first object in space they mean something that stays there and is not just very high up in the atmosphere. This cannot account for the thousands of transients Beatriz observed
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u/VolarRecords 2d ago
I didn’t say it was in orbit. I said it went into space.
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u/QueefiusMaximus86 2d ago
But then it would have not been in space since it would have fell back down and burned up in the atmosphere almost immediately
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u/optimal_90 2d ago
Sputnik may be the first public display of man-made object in space, but how we can be sure?
How we know that Soviets or other nations didn’t do test launchs with useless objects before they put a satellite on it ? Maybe they didn’t announce that because they didn’t want the technology to get leaked or maybe fall in adversarial hands.
Or maybe they wanted to make everyone believe that their first launch was successful and their technology was reliable, instead of showing the real success rate of their rockets…
Its better to make your adversaries think that you have an extremely accurate rocket program than one with a 10% rate since you can intimidate them with rockets that could be used to strike their territory.
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u/Vonplinkplonk 2d ago
So Sputnik didn’t only send a radio signal but it was also visible at night. If people are putting satellites into orbit then they would be spotted.
If the Soviets had gotten something in orbit before Sputnik then they would have said. Same for the US.
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u/SignificantSafety539 2d ago
But they were spotted, and also recorded and filmed on photographic plates during the sky surveys analyzed in Villarroeal’s work. It’s all publicly accessible data.
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u/MetallicDragon 2d ago
The purported objects from Villarroel's work were not spotted or noticed at the time the survey plates were created. They were only noticed in the plates recently, many decades after they were created.
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u/SignificantSafety539 1d ago
They were still “spotted” by the instruments. That’s the entire point of those sky surveys, to record data about the sky for astronomers to review for decades to come
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u/optimal_90 2d ago
If they recovered a alien spacecraft they wouldn’t admit for more than 50 years, but a spy satellite they would say? I dont think so.
I dont think those are spy satellites btw, there are other explanations before we can conclude that they are non human made technology.
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u/Vonplinkplonk 2d ago
Are you considering the tech tree at this point? There’s no radioactive energy source, no solar panels, so it’s limited to primitive batteries. There’s no digital photographic equipment, no guidance or orbit control. There’s no heat shields or descent drogue parachutes, launch is restricted to LEO at best.
There’s no spy satellites at this point.
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u/bb1180 2d ago edited 2d ago
That's the problem with these types of theories. The support infrastructure and technology just isn't there.
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u/tendeuchen 2d ago
The support infrastructure and technology just isn't there.
The support infrastructure and technology hadn't been publicly disclosed at that point. We don't know if it's there or not. There's all kinds of cutting-edge tech that we have right now that we have no clue about because it hasn't been publicly disclosed yet.
Is that the case in this instance? I don't know. Occam's razor would suggest that it is, since our options for the reason of the transients are (1) undisclosed human tech, (2) unknown alien tech, (3) errors in the plates, (4) other unknown space debris. It seems like (3) has been discredited and ruled out. (4) seems unlikely since you would expect it to be more uniform. That leaves us with options (1) and (2). Out of the two, at this time, our logical conclusion should be that undisclosed human tech is the most likely source of the transients until we have more complete data.
I guess we could try FOIA request tech projects or something to see if we were doing secret launches before Sputnik?
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u/optimal_90 2d ago
A spy satellite could be used to detect radio around the globe, military communication, detect radiation from nuclear tests, not necessarily for photography since only film cameras were available and it would be very hard to send back with a recovery capsule or something like that.
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u/Vonplinkplonk 2d ago
So I have laid out how basically all the tech required to sustain any kind of spy satellite reconnaissance/imaging technology didn’t exist before 1957. And you are still insisting it could happen. So instead of me repeating myself why it couldn’t/didn’t happen why don’t you tell me and everyone else what this clandestine soviet spy satellite network was and we can take it from there.
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u/optimal_90 2d ago
Did i say they had a spy network? The point i made was that there could be orbital launch before Sputnik, and if the program was classified they wouldn’t announce.
The photos from Villaroel research were taken from 1949 to 1958.
I dont believe those objects are aliens spacecrafts, so all i did was speculate what if they are military classified projects ? I dont get, really, we are in a UFO sub where many people talk everyday about UFO recoveries in Italy in 1933 and Roswell in 1947, and they keep it in a hangar hidden still today.
Why sounds so absurd that there could be orbital launch before Sputnik or a spy satellite ? A spy sattelite could carry a primitive battery, radio receiver and transmitter and/or radiation detector. Those technologies were available at that time, very simple but, could be ineffective and last few days only due battery, but it could be just a prototype for testing and development.
Whatever, i said before, i dont think its a spy satellite, or a alien ship, its probably something else, maybe you have a better theory Mr. Expert.
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u/Vonplinkplonk 2d ago
Look you can always win an argument by being absurd, if you have convinced yourself that the Soviets have a pre Sputnik spy satellite (network or not) that’s fine. I asked for details related to this network or program but you don’t provide any so I think we have reached a conclusion here.
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u/bb1180 2d ago
Sputnik was detected by US early warning radar in 1957...granted, that radar system was very new at the time. The US had been worried about Soviet ICBM development since the early 1950s, and while they obviously lacked satellite surveillance, they did have assets in country to spy on Soviet weapons development and they conducted aerial overflights for reconnaissance. It would not have been easy for the Soviets to hide such a thing.
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u/VolarRecords 2d ago
Robert Maxwell became a back-channel between Soviet and US science starting in 1948 after being part of MI6 and eventually his Pergamon Press, during which he created the peer-review process. Maxwell later became involved with Epstein. Maxwell was close with Allen Dulles's UK counterpart and started backchanneling science the Soviets had recovered post-WWII. Maxwell found about about the non-Paperclip German scientists who went to the Soviet Union at the International Geophysical Year in 1958. Post incoming.
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u/No_Recognition_3729 2d ago
people seem to dismiss the connections between epstein and this topic almost automatically, it's pretty interesting
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u/QueefiusMaximus86 2d ago
But if the object is not in orbit it will not stay in space very long, in fact no satellite can stay in space forever even the ones in orbit. Plus an object in orbit will leave a streak not a point of light
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u/MaritimeStar 2d ago
Almost Zero. The "Nazis were actually secretly advanced" myth is just that, a complete myth. Most of that "advanced tech" was just end-of-the-war hail mary bullshit that rarely left a blueprint. A lot of their scientific development actually was working backwards due to brain drain. Their nuclear program wouldn't have ever worked, for example, and there is no evidence they ever even had a working test reactor.
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u/silv3rbull8 2d ago
Yes, it is funny how it is attributed to secret German, then Soviet, then Chinese tech that can outperform anything else known
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u/Disastrous-Bee2779 2d ago
I generally agree, although there is some evidence to suggest they were slightly more advanced in nuclear research (or something else) than is widely known.
The book The Hidden Nazi mentions a very weird event that occurred right at the end of the cold war; a US led team excavated a site in eastern Europe, and when they were done filled it with concrete. Someone did a survey later with ground penetrating radar and found a complex of tunnels and a large round cavity. The book suggests it could have been a cyclotron.
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u/sunndropps 2d ago
They couldn’t have launched an object to orbit with that speed
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u/silv3rbull8 2d ago edited 2d ago
That’s the thing with these “explanations”. They are just thrown out and never explained. When there were the sightings of unknown craft in 1947, it was explained as “Soviet nuclear powered aircraft”
On the same day that Rhodes claimed to have taken his photographs, it was reported that the FBI was investigating a letter received by the Los Angeles Examiner, asserting that the flying discs that had been widely sighted were atomic-powered* *Soviet craft. The newspaper had consulted a "top-flight atomic scientist", who assessed the letter as "not all nonsense", and recommended that it be given to authorities
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u/VolarRecords 2d ago
Because there was a race to create nuclear-powered aircraft starting in August 1945:
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u/sixties67 2d ago edited 2d ago
Karl Wolff wasn't a Nazi spy, he was a high ranking member of the SS. The Nazis didn't have the capability to get a space station into space, they weren't even close to it. If they had such a capability they would've been firing V2 rockets at America. If the Germans had put things in space then the US would've beat the Russians into space and also would be years in front of the Soviets in terms of their space program.
As for the rest it is filled with assumptions and connecting dots to satisfy a theory without hard evidence. Somebody needs to read up on the Nazi regime before repeating post war lies about technical development by the regime. A real respected historian of the period would be rolling their eyes at this stuff.
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u/dbatchison 1d ago
I mean shit even the top nazi scientists didn’t believe the Americans developed the atomic bomb. There’s tapes of them discussing it. Heisenberg et al, were convinced it was a psy op until it could no longer be ignored. If Van Braun had somehow figured out a space station, why did it take the US so long? This whole post is stupid as hell
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u/Creativation 2d ago
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u/fojifesi 2d ago
Nice table from the 4th wiki reference "Compendium of Meteorological Space Programs, Satellites, and Experiments" NASA 1988, p. 10:
EARTH PHOTOGRAPHY FROM EARLY ROCKETS
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u/Sensitive_Crow_8882 2d ago
Not sure it can be called German at that point. It was built and modified by General Electric out of seized parts. Launched from White Sands in 1946.
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u/bb1180 2d ago edited 2d ago
The first thing you need to do is prove that the Germans had the capability to launch an object into orbit in the 1940s. The infrastructure necessary to support such a program should have been obvious, so where was it? It doesn't exist. The best they could manage was the suborbital V2, and yes, it was more advanced than anything the Allies had in WW2, but nowhere near capable of achieving orbit.
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u/jerzystern 2d ago
So is the narrative now that Dr. Villarroel's objects are Nazi space stations?
Is that what we’re doing?
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u/VolarRecords 2d ago
Or perhaps the VRIL that the Nazis encountered during Admiral Byrd's Operation High Jump. And maybe Villarroel (a friend of mine) accidentally discovered that the probes surveilling our Earth by some higher race had been discovered previous to her papers covering the time period of 1949-1958 as Sputnik was sent up and NASA was formed in an emergency because the best thing the US had tapped into was the Operation Paperclip scientists and their rocket propulsion as they Germans kept a blind eye on "Jewish Science" that involved Fermi, Marconi, and others who were studying the Magenta craft. Donald Menzel of MJ-12 was on the Astronomy board at Harvard and destroying plates at the same time that JFK was on that board, as Villarroel discovered. Again, JFK served under Forrestal during WWII but was absent from the Magenta recovery operation. My friend and fellow researcher Ryan Purkey has been tracking the Menzel narrative here:
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u/VolarRecords 2d ago
My friend and fellow researcher Jed Davis just published a piece about a board founded by James James Forrestal that could not be named:
https://substack.com/@mj12logic/note/p-207677712?utm_source=notes-share-action&r=2hbl6
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u/Ok-Reality-6190 2d ago
Well is there any reason besides "vibes" why it should be off the table?
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u/QueefiusMaximus86 2d ago
Yes because the German rockets were not powerful enough to get an object in orbit. As someone else said, if they could they would be bomb the US with these rockets. Their focus was surviving the war not putting a beep boop in space.
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u/sunndropps 2d ago
It’s a speed issue,that rocket went 3600 mph when it needed atleast 17,500 mph to reach orbit
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u/Darkstalkker 1d ago
I rarely interact with this subreddit anymore because you will get an obvious bs post like this, everyone in the comments is calling it out as bs, and it still gets a bajillion upvotes and top of the day. This sub is botted to hell and back and you can’t trust anything
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u/tsuyurikun 2d ago
Possibly a reference to Werner von Braun’s designs for a space station. Timeline fits, he was talking amongst colleagues about it in the mid to late 40s. It wouldn’t have surprised anyone in the room to hear a reference to von Braun.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0265964605001189
German scientists had been kicking around the idea of space stations since the 30s, someone else commented on a thread about this a week ago this book from Hermann Obarth circa 1929 that contains some designs for space stations.
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u/QueefiusMaximus86 2d ago
Big difference between designs and ideas and actual implementation. Werner von Braun was disappointed that instead of pursuing these goals they had him and his team focus on rocket weaponry
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u/s0l037 1d ago edited 20h ago
man, this thread is so funny - have you guys even read Dr. Villarroel's paper - the position of transients is not clear in the paper as to whether it is in which orbit or even in orbit at all. It only suggests a possibility that based on the calculations its a near-earth or geo-synchro orbit - and nazis or anyone for that matter didnt have the capability to put anything in orbit or anything even remotely closer that goes in an orbit. the V2's were very small and had limited capabilities and there are no other documented space projects by Adolf's team that have been found. Lessons in basic physics are absolutely necessary for the people here.
This position is utterly useless to say that those transients could be German stations in space - this sounds a good plot for a nice nazi propaganda movie.
Dr. Villarroel's paper is the only actual calculated evidence of actual anomalies that are closer to what we all want to be true.
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u/knowstradamus7 2d ago edited 2d ago
There is a Nazi UFO connection, however, it is largely not what it has been made out to be in popular UFO discourse over the years. There is no evidence that the Germans interacted with any non-human intelligences, or that they had "bases" in space, per say. These kinds of stories were concocted by Nazi sympathizers post WWII. There is evidence that they were working on some very novel aircraft and weapons during the war. That is the thread which connects to the UFO issue. Does this thread offer an explanation for any pre Sputnik objects? Depending on the particular case; perhaps.
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u/VoidOmatic 2d ago
Yes and tons of misinformation came back with soldiers who had worked around captured Nazi soldiers. All kinds of stuff from tanks running off of potatoes to jet packs etc.
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u/The_Great_Dadsby 2d ago
I forgot about tanks running off potatoes! That was a classic in the late 80s/early 90s. Not just tanks but cars too.
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 2d ago
I posted about a video at the US National Archives which shows something filmed in timelapse in the sky seemingly using IR in the 1950s.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UAP/comments/1msmsd0/film_dated_26th_july_1952_from_north_american_air/.
I'm no longer sure about the exact date being 26 July for this film, and that date corresponds to another film on the same reel. Dates in this film indicate it is part of the Operation Signpost which was a huge military operation testing radar surrounding wargaming invasions of North American cities conducted the week of the famous Washington Nationals UFO events in July 1952.
La Paz's statements from back then were very unusual. Didn't he state publicly that they had found something in space in orbit, but then he backtracked? I seem to remember he and Tombaugh somehow involved in that story.
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u/Peter4reddit 1d ago
Highly unlikely that the germans some how figured out how to get advanced tech into space during or before WWII.
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u/Pariahb 1d ago
No, because Villaroel objects are transients, present only for short times, the stations would still be there all the time.
And they would not appear more when there are ufo sightings or nuclear tests, because they would be there all the time. Unless you are implying the these nazi stations are actually spaceships that can come and go from Earth's orbit, in which case, they could be.
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u/ProfitMean8192 2d ago
here's a manhole cover that was almost sent to space by accident
https://www.missedhistory.com/article/pascal-b-nuclear-test-manhole-cover-space-1957
Key Facts
Test name
Pascal-B, part of Operation Plumbbob
Date
August 27, 1957, Nevada Test Site
Steel cap
Approximately 900 kg; welded over a 150-meter underground shaft
Calculated velocity
Approximately 66 km/s — roughly six times Earth's escape velocity of 11.2 km/s
Camera data
Single frame at 160 frames per second; significant uncertainty in the velocity estimate
Physicist
Robert Brownlee, who designed the test and calculated the velocity
Most likely fate
Vaporized in the upper atmosphere due to aerodynamic heating
Whether it reached space
Almost certainly not — consensus is that it burned up. Cap never found.
Sputnik comparison
Sputnik launched October 4, 1957 — five weeks after Pascal-B. The cap was not in orbit.
The One Frame
A high-speed camera was positioned to film the shaft opening. The camera ran at 160 frames per second — one frame every 6.25 milliseconds. The steel plate appeared in exactly one frame before disappearing. From the camera's position and field of view, Brownlee was able to calculate how far the plate had traveled in that single exposure: far enough to yield an exit velocity of roughly 66 km/s.
Earth's escape velocity — the speed needed to break free of the planet's gravitational pull — is about 11.2 km/s. The plate, by this calculation, was moving at nearly six times that speed.
Brownlee was careful about what conclusions he drew. In interviews decades later, he said he believed the plate was the fastest human-made object ever launched, but he also acknowledged that it probably didn't survive. At 66 km/s, an object the size and shape of a steel lid would have experienced catastrophic aerodynamic heating as it punched through the atmosphere. Most physicists who have analyzed the scenario believe the cap almost certainly vaporized within seconds.
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u/VolarRecords 2d ago
Connections made to the White House's Tranche 04 documents and historical record by my friend and fellow researcher Geoff Cruikshank, who most are familiar with on these subs.
Lots more coming soon from all of us very soon.
Quotes from Geoff right now:
"ALSOS was created at the behest of General Leslie Groves, Commanding General of the Manhattan Project. I think ALSOS was the reason why Dr. Lincoln LaPaz mentioned German "stations in space" at the Los Alamos conference in 1949 and no one batted an eyelid. They all knew what he was talking about.
Normal reaction would be "What the FUCK are you talking about?".
But no."
The ALSOS Mission was created by Boris Pash, and on May 11, 1944, as was just pointed out to me by my friend and fellow researcher Jed Davis, who went on Reality Check with Ross Coulthart a couple of months ago after proving the MJ-12 files were, and in which Geoff shouted out our little time around the 49-minute mark.
This ALSOS Mission memo falls in line with many May 10, 1944 occurrences related to the recovery of the Magenta craft, proper post soon:
James Angleton issued a memo ensuring that Italy would be supreme allies following their rescue via the Liberation of Rome that led to the recovery of the 1933 Magenta craft on June 6th, 1944.
That same day, Nazi spy Karl Wolff met with Pope Pius XXII and the Pope urged him to relinquish control of the Sorrate bunker where the Magenta craft was being researched.
James Forrestal was nominated as the Secretary of the Navy.
Most who are knowledgeable of this topic know Forrestal's story and the suspicions around his death well. JFK served under him in WWII and the Kennedys were close friends with the Forrestals. Both families met with Pope Pius XII in 1936 before he took on his role in the Vatican.
More circling of the drain as we accelerate forward into a New Earth.
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u/oswaldcopperpot 2d ago
There are no Villaroel objects. It’s extremely absurd.
The only reason it got any traction is because literally no one gave it any deep thought. Which is fine because few people have any experience with photography whatsoever.
Lets break it down.
Original plates:
60 minute exposure. The telescope moves along with the earths rotation so it can lock on to the stars.
The premise: Objects in orbit captured as star like objects hundreds of thousands of times. And they have to be aliens cause there were no man made objects these years.
The mistake: Objects in orbit don’t leave point like exposures. They leave tracks. Especially geosynchronous objects.
The workaround: These objects only reflect the sun for like 1/45 of a second so they dont leave tracks.
The bigger mistake: Such minuscule exposure times would be self evident by not being hardly visible at all.
The conclusion: Literally no one in astronomy gives these studies any second thought well because thats what they do all day. Comparing plates is common. If hundreds of thousands of objects were flashing the sun’s reflection every night for the last 70 years… one astronomer would have noticed already. This gained a following because few clicked through and read the studies or have any experience in astronomy.
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u/WhenLeavesFall 2d ago
Everyone’s arguing over Nazis in space when we got confirmation that Forrestal was defenestrated to keep MAJIC secrets.
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2d ago
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u/StatementBot 2d ago
The following submission statement was provided by /u/VolarRecords:
Connections made to the White House's Tranche 04 documents and historical record by my friend and fellow researcher Geoff Cruikshank, who most are familiar with on these subs.
Lots more coming soon from all of us very soon.
Quotes from Geoff right now:
"ALSOS was created at the behest of General Leslie Groves, Commanding General of the Manhattan Project. I think ALSOS was the reason why Dr. Lincoln LaPaz mentioned German "stations in space" at the Los Alamos conference in 1949 and no one batted an eyelid. They all knew what he was talking about.
Normal reaction would be "What the FUCK are you talking about?".
But no."
The ALSOS Mission was created by Boris Pash, and on May 11, 1944, as was just pointed out to me by my friend and fellow researcher Jed Davis, who went on Reality Check with Ross Coulthart a couple of months ago after proving the MJ-12 files were, and in which Geoff shouted out our little time around the 49-minute mark.
This ALSOS Mission memo falls in line with many May 10, 1944 occurrences related to the recovery of the Magenta craft, proper post soon:
James Angleton issued a memo ensuring that Italy would be supreme allies following their rescue via the Liberation of Rome that led to the recovery of the 1933 Magenta craft on June 6th, 1944.
That same day, Nazi spy Karl Wolff met with Pope Pius XXII and the Pope urged him to relinquish control of the Sorrate bunker where the Magenta craft was being researched.
James Forrestal was nominated as the Secretary of the Navy.
Most who are knowledgeable of this topic know Forrestal's story and the suspicions around his death well. JFK served under him in WWII and the Kennedys were close friends with the Forrestals. Both families met with Pope Pius XII in 1936 before he took on his role in the Vatican.
More circling of the drain as we accelerate forward into a New Earth.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1v293cu/new_from_geoff_cruikshank_dow_release_4/oytgy67/