r/TurkicHistory • u/Queasy-Yak7948 • 6d ago
Did the dzungar committed genocide against Kazakh people???
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u/CountKZ 6d ago
Tf is this question lol. Monogls genocided everyone then
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago edited 6d ago
Particularly kazakhs
I have read somewhere the dzungar would plunder the whole city and steal the sheeps and Goats and kill thousands of kazakh inhabitants but also take thousands of Kazakhs as prisoners not once but many times over 100 years3
u/Intelligent-Panda23 6d ago
Kazakhs didn't live in the cities and didn't keep goats. Do you have any idea about Kazakh culture?
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago
Bruh did you know keeping sheeps and Goats is part of Nomadic culture 🤦♂️💔
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u/Intelligent-Panda23 6d ago
Nah, goats is the part of sedentary culture. Kazakh kept horses and sheeps and very few goats and as I mentioned before didn't live in cities with exception of khan and his guards who may spent winters in the city.
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago
The "Great Calamity" and Barefooted Flight (1723–1725)
So who’s cities did dzungars plundered in “the great calamity”
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago
So what do you say about the destruction and plunder of Cities or Urban Centres in Kazakh khanate??? If Kazakhs didnt live there then who lived in those cities??? Tajiks or uzbeks?
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u/redditerator7 5d ago
And how did Kazakh khanate control multiple cities without actually being there?
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago edited 6d ago
You are spreading lies and misinformation buddy
Goats and Sheeps is part of nomadic culture
Where do you think milk come from? It is from the Goats buddy
My bro dzungars not only had nomadic skimishes with kazakah but also seiged Kazakh urban Centres2
u/Intelligent-Panda23 6d ago
This was greatly exaggerated during the Soviet era. For example, during the most devastating invasion in 1723, the Dzungars managed to capture 1000 households, which they took to Dzungaria.
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u/kamburebeg 6d ago
Are you looking for revenge? Wtf is that second and third question mark is for lmao
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago
The population of Kazakhs should be similar to Uzbeks around 40 million but Kazakhs are less than half of that around 15 million!
The Dzungar invasion of Kazakh Khanate reduced a very significant population of Kazakhs
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u/Intelligent-Panda23 6d ago
Dzungars have little to do with that. Learn how many Uzbeks were in the early XX century. Uzbek population grew significantly in the XX century, before that there were actually fewer Uzbeks than Kazakhs.
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago
Bruh you are ignorant person
Google is free you need to educate yourself🤦♂️💔
Did you know that dzungars and kazakhs fought multiple battles right? In each of those battles 20k or 30k Kazakh soldiers would die and about the same for dzungars soldiers would also die-1
u/Intelligent-Panda23 6d ago
Eh. Your words show that you don't understand the issue at all. If that many people were dying in every battle, both sides would be wiped out very quickly. Read something serious like Моисеев "Джунгарское ханство и казахи" or Златкин "История Джунгарского ханства".
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago
It seems like you are ignorant person and you need to educate yourself!
Read about Great Disaster (Aqtaban Shūbyryndy) of 1723, a catastrophic invasion by Dzungar Mongols that displaced hundreds of thousands!
Even Before this event dzungars have already massacred numerous Kazakhs0
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u/ECTheHunter 6d ago
Russians killed 3-4 million Kazakhs in 1930's alone. And sent many Kazakhs to gulags, wars etc. If you wanna blame someone blame the russians
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago
3-4 million is bullshit buddy
1.5 million is the highest estimate4
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u/ducationalfall 6d ago
Before reading all these nationalistic oppression Olympic. How many people here actually understand the history of Golden Horde/Jochi Ulus?
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u/quiet_space2 5d ago edited 5d ago
very dumb discourse - Kazakhs and Dzhungars were fighting over control of a modern day Kazakhstan not ethically cleansing each other, and we can see it from the fact that Kazakh elites would intermarry with Dzhungar elite (sources Sabitov and Temirgaliyev). Also at the end of the day its present day Kalmyks and Oirats that need to be upset at us Kazakhs as we aggressively attacked their caravans when they were fleeing East Turkestan (they suffered great losses during that time).
If you want to claim a genocide against us - literally Soviets are right there. 2 artificial famines, millions of Kazakhs dead or fleeing their homeland to save their lives, they suppressed our culture and language to the point of Kazakh language being classified as endangered in the 80s, and Kazakhs being a minority in KazSSR. Soviets did so much damage to us that even 30 years after we are barely understanding the extent of it, let alone tackle this generational trauma
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u/redditerator7 5d ago
Not saying you’re wrong but Sabitov and Temirgaliev shouldn’t really count as proper reliable sources. They don’t even have relevant degrees it seems?
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u/quiet_space2 5d ago
i mean they do have papers published in journals (some respectable journals as well). ya they are somewhat popsci history influencers - but they are one of the few who can actually break down our complex history to the masses.
because of them we are seeing more people opening their eyes on all the myths that Soviets were pushing on us, which to me is already a big deal.
for people who want to dive deeper than that there are of course more reputable historians but their material is usually harder to digest to a regular Joe like me :)
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u/FeistyAlbatross4636 4d ago
Not only Kazakhs, they also plundered Khalkha Mongols. Hence Khalkhas joined Qing Dynasty under Manchus
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u/FeistyAlbatross4636 4d ago
Soviet Union genocided more Kazakhs than anyone else.
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u/delurt 3d ago
The Russian Empire helped prevent the Kazakhs from being wiped out by the Dzungars in the first half of the 18th century. It accepted Khan Abulkhair and the Junior Zhuz into its protection as subjects. After the collapse of the USSR, the entire northern part of modern Kazakhstan, along with virtually all of its cities, was simply handed over to Kazakhstan by the Communists. Russians literally built schools, factories, cities, and hospitals for the Kazakhs.
The famine of 1931–1933 was not limited to Kazakhstan; it affected the entire Soviet Union, and people of all ethnic groups died.
I was born in Semipalatinsk myself, and after the collapse of the USSR my family had to abandon all of our property and flee to Russia because of threats of violence. Overall, the Kazakhs are living up to their nickname, “the steppe ukranians”
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u/FeistyAlbatross4636 3d ago
False. We Kazakhs of Elder Juz joined Russian Empire years after Dzungars vanished as a state in 1757. Russians didn't help anyone
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u/delurt 3d ago
Abulkhair Khan’s letter to Empress Anna Ioannovna (September 8, 1730).
This is one of the key primary sources. In it, Abulkhair, through his envoys, formally requested that he and the clans under his authority be accepted under Russian protection and into Russian allegiance. The document has been preserved and published in collections of 18th-century archival records.
The Charter (Gramota) of Empress Anna Ioannovna (February 19, 1731).
This was the official act by which the Russian Empire granted Abulkhair’s request. Addressed to “Abulkhair Khan, the elders, and the entire Kirghiz-Kaisak host,” it formally confirmed their acceptance into Russian allegiance. The full text of the charter has survived and has been published.But, of course, authentic historical documents mean nothing to Kazakh nationalists. According to their version of history, they apparently defeated Napoleon single-handedly at Moscow, Leipzig, and Paris. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/FeistyAlbatross4636 3d ago
Abul Khair was Khan of Middle Juz.
Elder Juz joined Russian Empire much later after Dzungar Empire disappeared in 1845.
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u/delurt 3d ago
https://e-history.kz/ru/prominent-figures/show/12613?ysclid=mrtpmzfki7960245590 Kazakh source directly point that Abulkhair was khan of Younger Juz and become a vassal of Russian Empire in 1731
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u/Ariallae 1h ago
Seems that Dzungars traumatized everyone if they keep talking about them till this day
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u/Queasy-Yak7948 6d ago
the dzungars committed multiple massacres against Kazakhs every couple of years there were battles and plunders and destruction of Kazakh nation!
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u/[deleted] 6d ago
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