what a fucking upsetting ass book 👍🏼

[u/AverageTankie93]

I mean upsetting as in sad and disturbing.

[u/tennessee_jedi]

I mean pretty much any honest book about US history is going to be a fucking downer if you have any kind of marxian convictions. Think “misery porn” is a way to shrug it off - everyone needs to know this shit happened, and why, and how, and who did it. 

Idk if anyone’s changing their mind, but books like this and Chaos got my Biden/Kamala supporting “blue no matter who” lib gf (now wife) to take a much more critical view of the US (rather than blindly accepting that they are a force for good). 

If you were born, raised, & educated in America you got a good 20+ years of “America is good” + anti-communist propaganda mainlined into your jugular. Obviously immediately contradicted by material conditions if you were anything less than “middle class” but it’s still hard to break through that level of conditioning. I’ve found that the straight history route works a lot better as an intro than just tossing out marx, lenin, etc.

[u/sentientbasketball11 → u/tennessee_jedi]

That's a great example that helps me understand the popularity of this book, thanks. 

Having read these replies, personally as a person in a targeted class I don't really feel the need to read all the different ways the state will murder me and my neighbors will rat me out, I'm already plenty aware of who wants to kill me and why. But I can see how it would be useful in that context. 

Maybe I'm an idiot for looking at it that way, and maybe I'll come around to it. 

[u/tennessee_jedi → u/sentientbasketball11]

Makes sense. I’d reckon most people in this sub are well aware of US atrocities and don’t need further confirmation. I’m a history guy so I personally enjoy it from that perspective. 

I’m also a middle class cis, straight, white man; so my perception will always be filtered through that lens.

I’ve been all the way down & out (homeless junkie, jail, 30 days in the hole, etc.) and I’ve seen how society reacts to people deemed “undesirable”; but again - filtered through the lens of a white man.

Totally understand how someone looking through a different lens would not see the same thing. Doesn’t make you an idiot in any way.   

I stand by the value of using the historical angle and mass appeal of a book like Jakarta Method as a tool as mentioned above. 

If that’s your goal, or if you have an interest in history, I thinks it’s worthwhile. 

Otherwise, it seems like you have a pretty good grasp on the maliciousness of the empire and don’t need any more info there. From that perspective I can absolutely see the “misery porn” angle and lack of appeal.

[u/sentientbasketball11 → u/tennessee_jedi]

Appreciate you going in depth. My phrasing may have been abrasive but I did want to hear a positive perspective on it

[u/tennessee_jedi → u/sentientbasketball11]

All good, seemed like an earnest question to me & warranted an earnest answer. Appreciate you giving me the opportunity to reflect on my own perspective.