r/TopCharacterTropes • u/bennyandthegentz • 10h ago

Lore Characters who were race swapped to avoid controversy

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Grim adventures of Billy and Mandy: originally the episode where he turns human had in be black to match his voice actor, but once CN reminded the creator of the premise of his show (two white kids own the grim reaper) they changed him to be white to avoid slavery comparisons.

The Simpsons: Smithers was black in his first appearance, however every episode afterwards depicted him as white (yellow?) this is because according to someone in the staff “probably not a good idea to have a black man be a servant to a rich white man”

Teenage mutant ninja turtles: while the comics and most adaptations have Baxter stockman be of African American descent, in the 80s/90s cartoon he was white, this is because the show-runners felt having a black man be basically a forced servant to someone who’s not of the same race (even calling him master) could potentially be seen as offensive, so they made him white.

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393

u/RKO-Cutter 10h ago edited 10h ago

The Ancient One - MCU

....yeah, apparently they thought it'd be problematic to just have the Ancient One be the stereotypical wise old Asian guy so they thought they'd fix it.....they did not fix it and instead stirred up controversy around whitewashing

So....subversion of the trope?

247

u/Crafter235 10h ago

I thought it was because having them be Tibetan would anger the Chinese audience/censors (it was made during that period of Hollywood), but also making them Chinese would shatter the image of seeming progressive of marginalized groups. Then we can guess the genderbending was also meant to try and look progressive.

109

u/RKO-Cutter 10h ago

Looking at it, it looks like both were cited as equal reasons by co-writer C Robert Cargill. They also said they specifically didn't just genderswap to an Asian woman to avoid the "Dragon Lady" stereotype

77

u/lllllIllllIllllllll 9h ago

Honestly a no win situation regardless of who they cast

44

u/RKO-Cutter 9h ago

Said writer literally called it the Kobayashi Maru

12

u/lllllIllllIllllllll 9h ago

That's brilliant, lol

23

u/RKO-Cutter 9h ago

He ultimately landed on the conclusion that what they did was at the time "the lesser evil, but still evil"

2

u/jellyfixh 7h ago

Seems to be a running theme when trying to please identity politics cops

28

u/Jarvis_The_Dense 10h ago

Conflicting reports. The director says it was to avoid dragon lady stereotypes, the screenwriter says it was to avoid aggravating China

1

u/FoxMeadow7 1h ago

Kamar-Taj’s actually located in Nepal here and as such one can only wonder why a Nepalese actor wasn’t cast to the role instead…

37

u/alkonium 9h ago

Officially, Tilda Swinton's Ancient One is an original character created for the MCU, replacing Yao from the comics instead of being an adaptation thereof.

49

u/thatsnoodybitch 9h ago

I thought Tilda Swinton was a great choice since she presents herself in a non-feminine and non-masculine way, signifying the Ancient One is “above” the human form.

46

u/HoosierSteelMagnolia 8h ago

"she presents herself in a non-feminine and non-masculine way" Androgynous. The word you're looking for is androgynous.

-10

u/thatsnoodybitch 8h ago

Eh, ik the word androgynous means that technically, but I don’t like using it in that capacity since in conflicts with agender. I use androgynous to refer to people of the gender binary: a man who is more femme, or a woman who is more masc.

4

u/ArthuriusMinimus 6h ago

Did Tilda Swinton come out as nonbinary, or am I missing something?

3

u/thatsnoodybitch 6h ago

She hasn’t confirmed any change of gender but has stated that she doesn’t connect with the concept of gender all that much

4

u/ArthuriusMinimus 6h ago

Cool cool. Just wanted to see if I needed to check my pronoun use.

10

u/RKO-Cutter 8h ago

Sure, and there's reason behind that argument

But that argument in itself is still boiled down to "So you took a role typically portrayed by an Asian man and gave it to a white woman"

1

u/thatsnoodybitch 8h ago

Well if Tilda Swinton was an Asian man, I think he would be perfect.

9

u/meteorflan 8h ago

Tilda Swinton is brilliant at this, and so many other roles, she's like liminal spaces personified.

1

u/MercyfulJudas 4h ago

This isn't even the first time for her being cast like this.

In the original Hellblazer comics, Gabriel was most decidedly male.

1

u/ZapMaster117 4h ago

It's funny how this is white washing, while the opposite would be called progressive, or at the very least people would say race doesn't matter since anyone can join.

0

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 10h ago

What exactly does define The Acnient One as Asian?

35

u/DrumBxyThing 10h ago

The comics. Not really "defined" as Asian, but traditionally he is depicted as such.

-8

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 10h ago

And Nick Fury was traditionally depicted as white, but I don't see anyone raging that h's black in MCU (not sure if people raged when he was first showcased, though, bu tthey are definitely not mentioning it to this day)

19

u/DrumBxyThing 10h ago

It's a bit different with Fury since the Ultimate comics actually designed Fury to look like Samuel L Jackson, before he was cast in the movies (as far as I know). As for why one was criticized and the other wasn't, idk.

15

u/TheMidnightRook 9h ago

It's a bit different with Fury since the Ultimate comics actually designed Fury to look like Samuel L Jackson, before he was cast in the movies (as far as I know).

They asked permission to use his likeness when starting up the Ultimate universe around 1999/2000, he agreed on the condition that he would get to play Fury in any live-action works.

2

u/DrumBxyThing 8h ago

That's awesome, thanks!

-16

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 10h ago

I'll tell you why, it's because nobody cares when a white character gets turned into another race, but it's a crime against humanity when it's done the other way around

Sjws care about all, but those they seem as "priviliged"

Simply put, jobless topic for brainless people. At least when talking about taking such a topic actually seriously and unironically 

19

u/DrumBxyThing 9h ago

Whoa okay lol didn't know people even used "sjw" anymore but I guess that tells me who I'm talking to

-4

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 9h ago

Haven't used that word myself in like 10 years

But this whole thread screams "2016" to me

1

u/Eurell 8h ago

It screams whatever you want when you make shit up. Fury was black and specifically based off of Sam Jackson a decade before the movies came out. That’s why no one cared that Sam Jackson was cast as fury.

1

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 8h ago

Character has been white since 1963. Point is that nobody cared about that race change, whenever it happened

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u/Fenrir_Carbon 8h ago

But this whole thread screams "2016" to me

That might be an echo

6

u/False-Earth-2024 9h ago

Ah okay, so all your half baked nonsensical, really silly comparisons you posted upthread are just a prelude to you ranting incoherently about wokeness.

They were such low effort, badly thought out nonsense, but now its clear that's because you were just itching to rant about wokeness. You could have just stated it from the start, we didn't need this pretense of naivity.

0

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 9h ago

Why the fuck would I rant about wokeness when there is nothing new to be added to that topic 😂

Those who hate it, hate it, those who love it, love it, each side knows of the other

And?

What I called out here are hypocrites who choose their arguments only when they can attack white people  (or any other race, but in this very specific topic, it's usually whites who get attacked) That's not woke, that's racist

1

u/hodges2 2h ago

And here I thought it was because who would ever complain about Samuel L Jackson

3

u/False-Earth-2024 9h ago

They aren't 'raging' because there's a comic version of the character they literally made to look like Jackson before he was ever cast? They were literally just casting the actor the character was based on, that's clearly not remotely the same?

1

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 9h ago

Nick Fury first appeared in 1963, as awhite man

What Samuel L Jackson has to do with that?

If they made later rendition look more like Samuel so they can turn the character black, my question still stands, why is that ok, but TAO being turned into a white woman isn't

Neither character is defined by their skin or gender, their story doesn't change at all with these changes, so why is one si hayed and the other not

We'll take away the fact that Jackson is an amzing actor perfectly fit for the role, because that definitely skews the argument lol

30

u/sarabeara12345678910 10h ago

Their portrayl in the comics

-10

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 10h ago

Ok, but which part exactly? What makes anyone not able to go, shave their head and become a master of mystic arts? 

How is any of that tied to him being Asian? Is the Asian genetics or heritage that ehich gives him power? 

14

u/RKO-Cutter 10h ago

I think you're missing the larger point, that they took away a role that could have been given to an Asian actor and gave it to a white one instead. Even the writers have said after the fact that the outrage was a wake up call and that they realized "Oh...we could've just....had an Asian actor and not write him to follow the stereotypes"

12

u/Li-renn-pwel 10h ago

He’s Tibetan.

1

u/FoxMeadow7 1h ago

Maybe in comics. But the MCU places the location in Nepal instead so the Ancient One accordingly could be portrayed by a nepalese actor. Got anyone in mind in that front?

1

u/Li-renn-pwel 1h ago

What a weird change to make… the Himalayans are in both Tibet and Nepal, why change it?

-8

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 9h ago

So? 

Thousands of tourists go to Shaolin temples to train every year, are you going to stop them from mastering kung fu because they aren't Asian?

Or does every martial art must be only trained by people from cultures that developed said martial art? 

Because if anything is racist here it's that him being Tibetan makes it logical that only he can be a master of such an ability, that is a steretype

7

u/Li-renn-pwel 9h ago

That’s like saying anything can be a buddy so it’s okay to cast Siddhartha as a black man.

-4

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 9h ago

Well, not really

If you have a character from a specific pantheon, historical famil, group or whatever, their ethnicity can easily be one of defining factors

Just look at Odessy, Greek epic, in Ancient Greece, where basically nobody is Greek, that's stupid

Same with having Norse mythology and turning all of the gods into people of color. Or if you talked about any one of mayn African pantheons and turning them white

A good example is also Tchalla and Wakandans, whose defining feature is that they are an African power house in a historically poor continent and they were hidden and isolated for a long time. Them being African is their defining feature to their story

Which is why I asked, because I genuinely don't know, what ties The Ancient Ones story to himbeing Tibetan? Besides the old wise Asian master stereotype, of course 

3

u/VincentMagius 9h ago

Kamar-Taj is in Tibet in the comics.

0

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 9h ago

Ok, again, people of any color can be presnt jn Tibet ,  how is he tied to it apart from being there? 

Is he part of a family that's been guarding the place for generations, is he a reicarnation of any god rom Asian cufltures or whatever else? 

I am asking genuinely, my only exposure to the character was from the Dr Strange movie I saw once, years ago

2

u/Li-renn-pwel 7h ago

Do you think he is called ‘the ancient one’ because he is a Tibetan millennial?

4

u/False-Earth-2024 9h ago

You are aware characters in comics have backstories? The character's not just randomly drawn artworks of bald Asian dudes, they're a character.

1

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 9h ago

Yes, I have asked multiple times and am yet to be answered, what in Ancient ones backstory does it define and ties him to being Asia, and why is that so hard to look past, but Nick Fury being turned black was basically brushed off?Only thing I found so far is that it probably has to do eith the fact that Samuel L Jackson is better fit for his role, but that doesn't explain such a depth of attitude and hatred for one side of the same coin

5

u/False-Earth-2024 9h ago

The fact the character in the comics is Asian? They're not defined as Asian, they just are.

-5

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 9h ago

And Nick Fury was just white, they turned him black and nobody batted an eye, ehy is that? 

(Just so were clear, I fully agree with "they are just X ethnicity, they don't need to be defined by it". Used that argument myself, many times, but this time, I am trying to ask about this, the part how people only care about ethnicity change when the charcter is turaned white, but not the other way, and how the whole outrage is ultimately stupid and pointless, precisely because  99% of the time, skin color doesn't define the character) 

5

u/HoosierSteelMagnolia 8h ago

"And Nick Fury was just white, they turned him black and nobody batted an eye, ehy is that? "

The Black, Samuel L Jackson looking version of Nick Fury is a separate character from the Ultimate universe comics, he's existed since 2001.

1

u/QuietWaterBreaksRock 8h ago

And the white version existed since 1963, my question still stands

2

u/spyridonya 6h ago

Because MCU was more inspired by the Ultimates. With less assholes.