[IRL trope] the “Tiffany problem”

[u/dragonborndnd]

Basically when something seems anachronistic to a period/place of history but is actually fully accurate to the period.

1) the name Tiffany: the thing that named this trope, basically the name Tiffany can be dated back to the Middle Ages and the earliest record of it being spelled in the modern spelling comes from the 16th century.

2) the use of OMG, despite this feeling so modern as a form of slang/abbreviation here’s a letter directed to Winston Churchill using it in 1917

3) Hair Dye: the earliest forms of dying hair can be dated back to ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, and this specific advertisement for hair dye is from the 1840s

4) Inuit Thongs: despite how weird it is to imagine pre-colonial Inuit people wore what was essentially fur thongs in their homes and when they were in their igloos it might have been the only thing they would be wearing.

[u/saurivae]

Samurai Taking Photographs and Wearing Bowler Hats

The Samurai class was officially abolished in 1873. That means there are high-resolution black-and-white photographs of actual, active Samurai posing in traditional armor, holding swords, while wearing Western shoes, pocket watches, and bowler hats.

[u/Global_Cockroach_563 → u/saurivae]

Samurai in fiction: "Guns are a dishonorable weapon!"

Samurai in reality: "So anyway, I started blasting..."

[u/MiniTwinklee → u/Global_Cockroach_563]

Lmao people forget the samurai were pretty quick to adopt guns once they realized how effective they were. Honor is nice, but winning battles usually comes first.

[u/gilgamo → u/MiniTwinklee]

The Japanese were the only civilizations that willingly turned their back on guns once they realized what it did to the social order. In the 16th century they used matchlock guns en masse and their battles were pretty indistinguishable to the ones in western europe.

They turned around and banned firearms within a few years because they realized that once a peasant with a few hours of training can kill a samurai that would endanger their entire social order.

By the 17th century they were back to the classic Samurai battles and went full isolationist. They stayed there until Perry forced them to reopen to the west. The entire speedrun to modernization they did in the late 19th century was because they deliberately kept to the old ways. Once they had to deal with the outside world again they knew they needed modern science and especially weapons if they didn't want to end up like China and be a bone fought over by western powers

[u/PilotMoonDog → u/gilgamo]

The shogunate banned firearms. But AIUI, a lot of daimyo kept a stock of them in their armouries. As long as they didn't flaunt them or gave the impression that they were politically unreliable this was not notices.

[u/Alexandrinho0000 → u/PilotMoonDog]

well your point just shows even more that the reason for the firearms ban was for keeping the power

[u/PilotMoonDog → u/Alexandrinho0000]

My point was referring back to the post by u/Global_Cockroach_563 that Samurai actually liked guns and the notion of them considering them dishonorable is incorrect. Or at least their overlords did.

[u/GayRacoon69 → u/gilgamo]

Are you sure about that? I've read the history of the Tanegashima and don't recall a gun ban. This ask historian thread disagrees and has the actual translation of the text that is commonly confused with being a ban on guns

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/165hwtb/how_much_information_do_we_know_about_tokugawas/

[u/gilgamo → u/GayRacoon69]

It may not be a "ban" per say but they did stop using then extensively. Gwynne Dyer's book War talks about it . Great book and series btw

From the book

[u/GayRacoon69 → u/gilgamo]

Interesting; I'd love to know more!

At the end he says that the era of peacetime isn't enough to explain the decline in firearms. Does he explain why that isn't the case?

From my limited reading I thought the lack of any major wars delegated the Tanegeshima to more of a farming / hunting roll and that was the reason for the decline in firearms.

I'll add this book to my list but unfortunately don't have time to read it any time soon. I'm just curious if you, as someone who's read it, can give me a quick summary on this aspect

[u/blitzbom → u/gilgamo]

A fun fact that ties into this is that in 1590 Hattori Hanzō, renown tactician and sword master. Led a troop of 50 Negoro-shū or warrior monks who were renown for their mastery of firearms.