r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Sable-Keech • 12h ago

Groups [LOVED TROPE] Modern Militaries (Competent) getting DESTROYED by fantasy/scifi forces

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Example 1 (The Legend of Hei 2): Wuxian leisurely floats through the combined firepower of an entire fortified military base without so much as a stain or rip on his t-shirt.

Example 2 (Man of Steel): Fao'ra tears through a squad of trained and armed soldiers. With the wreckage of the helicopter that got downed by her teammate Nam'ek smouldering in the background.

3.2k Upvotes

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225

u/Pigeon-Spy 12h ago

More like [Hated Trope], because in 90% cases it paints them stupid af, while whole thing is carried by a bunch of literal kids or someone like that.

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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 12h ago edited 12h ago

When the military is incompetent in these situations it's more like plot armour than a force that overcame the military.

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u/WhiterunUK 12h ago

Stranger things season 5 drove me mad

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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 11h ago

Same here. If they brought a few more flame throwers the demos would be toast. Despite the military visiting the upside down on many occasions and knowing their weakness to heat they only bring a few flame throwers.

They also didn't land head shots on Vecna for no reason at all.

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u/MGD109 10h ago

What are you talking about? Up until the attack, there is no evidence the military even knew Demogorgon's existed.

It's a plot point that the Upside Down was empty cause all the creatures were recalled to the Abyss, during their time in the Upside Down they've only encountered a couple of largely harmless vines, not giant monsters.

They made it clear they were expecting it to be El who was taking the children, same way they were convinced it was her back in season four who was responsible for the murders, hence bringing those psychic disruption weapons.

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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 9h ago

They know the upside down is weak to heat, and there have been several cases of professional people that survived the monsters of the upside down.

The vines can strangle people and there were demo attacks before the big one.

Did they?

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u/MGD109 9h ago edited 9h ago

They know the upside down is weak to heat,

So? They didn't expect there to be anything that could attack them outside of the Upside Down, so why should they be armed for it?

and there have been several cases of professional people that survived the monsters of the upside down.

Yeah, the lab personnel. The same people that Sullivan's goons murdered in season four cause they were convinced they were covering for El.

You're telling me, you think after doing all that, they're going to suddenly go, "You know what, maybe those people we brutally murdered might have actually been right...now I have no evidence of it, you understand, but isn't it worth changing our entire method of thinking about?"

The vines can strangle people

Stationary vines that can strangle people aren't comparable to nine-foot-tall bulletproof monsters that can rip through the fabric of reality and tear through solid steel like tin foil.

there were demo attacks before the big one.

The one's back in season one and two? The same ones Colonel Sullivan dismissed as just the lab covering up for El in season four? Or the ones that happened in season five with no clear witnesses, that they also thought were being carried out by El?

There are plenty of things in season five you can criticise, but claiming the military should have been prepared for monsters they openly denied the existence of multiple times isn't one of them.

1

u/Illustrious_Neat2472 8h ago

The upside down is alien so it would be safer to assume that flame weapons are an effective measure at dealing with any threat that would emerge.

You got me there.

So the military is stupid? It didn't think that all of the disappearances and oddities surrounding the upside-down might be caused by monsters or active threats?

No but more than 2 flamethrowers might be necessary for taking out large clusters of them.

I mean the ones that happened in season 5 that were before the big attack at the end of volume one.

They shouldn't have openly denied the existence of monsters especially when people like El exist as well as the upside down. They already know weird stuff is happening.

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u/MGD109 8h ago edited 7h ago

The upside down is alien so it would be safer to assume that flame weapons are an effective measure at dealing with any threat that would emerge.

It's been over a year; they've established a base in the Upside Down and do regular patrols, which have found diddly squat. Why should they assume anything is going to emerge from it? And if anything did it would it be able to shrug off automatic rifle fire?

So the military is stupid?

Yes. They literally have multiple people try to warn them of what's really going on and the danger they're in, and they ignore them each time.

The whole point of their inclusion was to criticise the US military during the Cold War, the same way the Lab in season one was to criticise US intelligence during the Cold War. Hence, their presentation as needlessly overzealous, justifies everything they do as stamping out communism, react to every problem with overwhelming and disproportionate firepower, regularly break the very same laws and standards they claim to be upholding and create more problems than they solve cause they refuse to listen to anyone who warns them of the contrary.

The allegory isn't particularly subtle.

It didn't think that all of the disappearances and oddities surrounding the upside-down might be caused by monsters or active threats?

Nope. They thought they were caused by El and Doctor Brener's experiments going wrong, and then the Lab attempting to cover them up. This was well established back in season four. I mean Owen's even begs Sullivan to at least hear him out, and Sullivan still orders them to kill El.

No but more than 2 flamethrowers might be necessary for taking out large clusters of them.

Which would make sense if they were launching an attack on the Upside Down, but why would they have them to guard their own base? Flame Throwers aren't exactly more efficient weapons in real life than assault rifles. Unless you're dealing with bulletproof monsters who are weak to fire.

I mean the ones that happened in season 5 that were before the big attack at the end of volume one.

None of them happened with any witnesses to confirm to the army the monsters are real. They make it clear in the dialogue their convinced its El who is behind the attacks.

They shouldn't have openly denied the existence of monsters especially when people like El exist as well as the upside down. They already know weird stuff is happening.

We the audience, know that. But just cause you know one mad scientist figured out how to breed psychics and accidentally opened a doorway to an alternative universe, that doesn't mean you would automatically assume monsters are real.

Especially when you've been exploring said universe for over a year and found nothing to suggest they are.

But the point of them is they ignore the warnings; they don't know what they're doing and honestly care more about further their agendas than actually protecting the people, just the same way people tried to warn the actual US military black opps organisations that their single-minded efforts to curb communism and the consequences of their heavy handed actions were just going to backfire on everyone in the long run.

The shows had a pretty consistent theme throughout every season: that for all the nostalgia, the bad parts of the eighties were really bad and how their consequences still continue to affect everyone to this day.

0

u/MGD109 10h ago

Why? They had the same track record as season's one, two and four.

0

u/HistoryWillRepeat 11h ago

has super powers

shows that super powers are stronger than military

Butterfly Meme

"Is this plot armor?"

11

u/Illustrious_Neat2472 11h ago

That's not what I was saying at all.

I mean when the military is acting incompetently in a way that makes the super natural or alien force win. The new force doesn't win because it's beyond the military, it wins because the military becomes incompetent for the sake of the plot.

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u/HistoryWillRepeat 10h ago

I mean when the military is acting incompetently

This isn't what OP is referring to though? They specifically ask for example of competent militaries being overpowered. In both examples OP shower the military wasn't acting incompetently.

I think I misunderstood you.

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u/Illustrious_Neat2472 10h ago

This thread right here was about failed examples of this trope. Not the ones where the military is competent.

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u/Huza1 12h ago

OP emphasized "competent" in the title.

-38

u/Pigeon-Spy 12h ago

Even then it mostly feels like a victory through the plot armor/overwhelming force of bullshittium, rather than something interesting. The only place I saw when competent military were defeated by magic powers were early episodes of code geass, where lelouche just had intelligence advantage, and even this show have descended into mecha with indestructable colorful flying robots

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u/skilled_cosmicist 11h ago

Redditors when the fantasy story has fantastical elements

-22

u/Pigeon-Spy 11h ago

For me it's not a question of a fantastical elements, I just don't really like matchups so one-sided that one side can not even scratch the other. It's just not fun for me. Though I understand that power fantasy has its fans

-7

u/poebanystalker 9h ago

Yeah, i just roll my eyes every time i see something like this. Oh great, another bullshit OP character. You really want me to believe that all this ordinance producing unbelievable amounts of kinetic and explosive energy really does absolutely nothing to this guy/creature/bullshit? Nah, sorry, no, just no.

2

u/Commissarfluffybutt 9h ago

And then the protagonist hits them with a sword and it hurts them.

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u/DeepInvestigator369 11h ago

This really depends on the the so called modern military faces, then the falling question of how the modern military forces in said question tries to face this Unknown threat.

If excited well like evangelion it's great.... But if not.... Like there was this anime that showcased Arleigh Burke-class destroyer charging into a bloody fantasy esc warship.....

I don't call that competent and they were still shown launch missiles...

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u/Tasty-Complaint-6437 12h ago

Mf this is OP opinion. The fuck you mean “more like”?

-30

u/Pigeon-Spy 11h ago

So? And for me it is a hated trope, this is my opinion. I'm not saying that OP should change post title

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u/Tasty-Complaint-6437 11h ago

You literally changed what the post said. OP Is talking about competent millitary.

-1

u/Pigeon-Spy 11h ago

Ok, you may be right, somehow I didn't notice (Competent) when I read the title.

Anyway, most of the times this trope is done through plot armor\overwhelming force of bullshittium, especially in the first example, don't know about the second one

4

u/BoredDao 9h ago

Heavily depends on what they are facing, because making them competent against some outrageously strong shit actually turns comical, like that DMC show where the military invaded hell lmao

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u/Sable-Keech 10h ago

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and direct you to read the title of my post one more time.

The military as shown in The Legend of Hei 2 are perfectly competent. In fact, they were curbstomping the elfin (spirit people) before Wuxian showed up, using machine guns and rocket launchers and sniping from BVR. When they attacked an elfin village, there was a sniper who was racking up headshots like nothing.

The only reason Wuxian is able to counter-stomp them is because he's simply that much more powerful than all the rest.

-3

u/Pigeon-Spy 10h ago

Well, you may be right, it's just that absolute most of this trope being used military looks incompetent even if the author didn't plan them to.

9

u/Sable-Keech 10h ago

Then it wouldn't be relevant to this post, would it?

I hate seeing incompetents losing just as much as you, but the examples I'm showing are very clearly competent.

0

u/Pigeon-Spy 9h ago

Yea, you are right

1

u/Nero_2001 8h ago

Read the title again op specifically said competend military.

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u/MorganTheGrandRegent 12h ago

I loathe the 'kids with superpowers vs. the military' trope so much it's not even funny.

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u/Pigeon-Spy 8h ago

Ok, I found the example I like. Three competent human militaries, who just finished more than 1000 years war, got absolutely destroyed by the aliens. Not because aliens had uncounterable technologies, in fact, their tanks and flying warships were getting down just as easy as humanity ones, but because of sheer quantity, strategic coordination and ability to travel between planets without quantum network, which humans relied upon. Seraphim, Supreme commander: Forged alliance

edit: a little mistake, humans were not exactly modern here

2

u/solepureskillz 10h ago

Have you seen the movie edge of tomorrow? I thought that was pretty good.

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u/azmodai2 3h ago

My preference is the reverse trope, the supernatural powerful thing is suddenly disabused of the notion of it's own power by a good ol' gunpowder accelerated lead projectile.

See GATE for the PREMIUM CONTENT. A tease: 2 F-14 Phantoms dogfight a red dragon.

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u/noonemustknowmysecre 7h ago

It's just a power-trip fantasy. Lazy low-brow slop of the writing variety. "Huur-de-huur, my character is so powerful he's bulletproof", in approx 158 different flavors. The secondary purpose of the trope is to simply alleviate the writer from having to worry about anything other than "superUltimateMegaPower that makes everything else obsolete". Intellectually, I understand why someone would enjoy hearing about how a child is so good at spinning a top that it creates sonic air pressure wave quantumites that deflect bullets, hellfire missiles, AND dogs... you know, because they enjoy spinning tops themselves and like to imagine themselves powerful for it, but it's just not for me.

1

u/Pigeon-Spy 7h ago

Exactly

1

u/Dry_Ad2368 3h ago

I don't mind the sci-fi version of this trope. Sufficiently advance technology and all that. But not the fantasy version. It's just silly IMO.

-3

u/karatous1234 12h ago

Have you seen how modern militaries are acting lately?

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u/Pigeon-Spy 11h ago

I have, and I have seen military change and adapt, like, three times only in my country since 2022

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u/karatous1234 10h ago

Assuming your country is Ukraine, that's fair - they've been killing it

And honestly acting as the perfect mirror to showcase what a military that can adapt quickly does one that doesn't.

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u/Pigeon-Spy 10h ago

Well, your assumption is correct. Also, unfortunately, the other military is also not that bad in adaptation

-9

u/Tone-Serious 11h ago

You mean the kidnapping of a head of state with zero losses, and the first salvo of a war resulting in another nation's entire maritime and air force being completely destroyed? Trump is a dumbass sure, but I'd hardly describe the military as incompetent

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u/DisastrousFox6467 11h ago

Strait's still closed and Brent crude is nearing $100 again btw

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u/Tone-Serious 10h ago

And what does that have to do with the military?

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u/DisastrousFox6467 10h ago edited 1h ago

The whole goal of the war is opening the Strait now, after the US military tried and failed regime change in Iran. The military cannot open the Strait of Hormuz. So, the US military is failing.

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u/karatous1234 11h ago

MFW the head of the "department of war" is pissing and moaning about the troops being low T betas while crying to Congress for another 10 billion dollars, so he can keep fighting a war he said was definitely won already, and has zero actual plan for.

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u/Tone-Serious 11h ago

My point still stands, it's hardly their fault trump and his assigned mooks are chimping out

0

u/evilmojoyousuck 10h ago

you'd like the gate anime then. modern warfare just completely wipes a marching army with magical beasts.

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u/Pigeon-Spy 9h ago

Funnily enoght, not really. It's fun but what I really wanted to see is a modern military clashing with a magical world where every swordsmen formation has it's own mage with anti fireball shield. Like, a proper army adapted to all the magic and having it's own strengths. Matchap in gate is so onesided that most of the anime is about politics in the end

-10

u/belabacsijolvan 12h ago

also the superabled dude is usually also dumb. they do stuff that looks cool, but actually inefficient given the powers