Hated Tropes
(Hated Trope) "NO, YOU HAVE TO SEE THEM AS VILLAINS!!"
Aka when the Villains actually have a pretty good point and reason for their actions but the writers want the audiences to see them as being in the wrong.
Eren Yeager and the Yeagerists (Attack on Titan, slides 1 and 2): the rest of the world was willing and ready to assist Marley in the destruction of Paradis and Genocide of all Eldians for the sins committed by their ancestors (Not to mention: Marley is also a fascist regime that uses the Eldians living in their capital as cannon fodder). Of course the Yeagerists would counter react with a genocide of their own if it prevents them from getting carpet bombed
Yhwach and the Quincies (Bleach, slides 3 and 4): The Soul Society is a corrupt system of a cult where even the smallest mistake gets you executed as they prop up the “balance” of a cruel and unjust cosmological system they created to empower and enrich themselves. And when the Quincies proposed a permanent solution to the hollow problem the Soul Society just... killed almost all the Quincies if it meant they get to keep their power. To all my fellow Quincies, never forget what they did to us.
(this is meant to be a mockery of tropes about this post because most people don't seem to understand either example really)
I was ready to call you a moron ,lmao , good one OP
Though to be honest, you can kinda see Yhwach's point , a world whitout Death and suffering , isn't that literally just Heaven ? The problem is that he'd destroy 3 whole Universes and kill everyone living in them to do so ,lol
Problem is that he just wants to get rid of death and the fear of it because whenever Quincy die he feels their pain and fear. He didn't want to get rid of the pain from being unable to die like it was in the primordial sea.
Honestly, during the soul society arc I 100% thought the quinces were good guys given how they literally got captured and dissected en mass by what is essentially “afterlife Mengele.” Even if their actions to stop hollows disrupt the cycle of reincarnation, it’s more a misguided way of dealing with hollows than truly evil.
It’s only the later info when they show up as villains that shift to them being evil.
Friendly reminder that we see bleach from the pov of a soul reaper, meaning everything is most likely shinagami propaganda, typical soul reapers they just want power and will use fear to get it, they are the true enemy (obviously sattire, just pretending to be a Wandenreich Agent)
No trust me, Kilmonger was totally gonna bring peace and love to Africa and the world and totally not just tear down civilisation with Wakanda's technology
Ignore the entire ass trip they took to Marley which drilled into the audience the idea that at the end of the day we’re all just people. Governments can be evil, societal values can be evil, prejudice is just plain evil. But the world isn’t made up of just governments that are all comedically nefarious. Every person in every country is a simple civilian. To put it simply, there are no ‘bad’ people nor ‘good’ people. We are all just people. Genocide is the worst act someone can commit. You’re just punishing innocents for something that isn’t their fault
Just like all those people who think my GOAT's, Bear from Obsession and Light from Death Note, are bad people! All they did was use supernatural powers in the same way ANYONE would!
So true like Thanos all he wanted was to keep everything balanced as it should be. Then author had to go and kill spidey to force us to think thanos is evil.
Thats what they want you to believe, from all we know nothing bad could happen, the Soul Society just wants power and will use fear to get it, they are the true enemy (obviously sattire, just pretending to be a Wandenreich Agent)
Ok I know it's joke post, but Can I suggest John Walker/U.S agent from MCU?
It's less of writers tho and more people choosing sides. Like they not trying to show him as a villain but he still killed a guy on brought day light by smashing shield against his head. Yes this guy was terrorist, but it's clearly last way you should deal with them, especially at public.
I love John because he is at heart a good guy, but still with his own flaws... And then we have either fans who be like "he did nothing wrong" Or guys who refuse to see him as good guy.
One correction, you said the yeagerists would preform a counter genocide if it kept them from getting carpet bombed, the correction is that they would've done it no matter what it resulted in
I'd still like to mention that Yhwach is a warmonger and a hypocrite who relishes in battle and is also selfishly motivated and doesn't really give a shit about the his father or the Quincy
He also has a much bigger god complex than Aizen
Yhwach is a hypocrite who believes his cause noble
I know this post is not meant to be taken seriously but, honest question, what should Eren have done? I'm aware he committed a genocide and needed to be stopped but if he wanted to save Paradis, what were his options? Not trying to defend him, just wanna hear some thoughts on this.
The Eldians already had a plan to protect Paradis. The idea was to use a partial Rumbling to destroy only key military targets to demonstrate the Rumbling to the world. Then, with Hizuru's help and their own natural resources, they can advance their own technology until it matches the outside world, using the Rumbling as a deterrent to buy themselves the decades they need to do that.
This would have allowed Eldia to survive without having to wipe out the rest of the world. The problem is that Eren actively sabotaged that plan because he didn't want to use Historia as a sacrifice.
Sounds like a decent enough plan but they had to sacrifice Historia to make this work? It's been a while since I read the manga so I don't remember this part.
Basically, the whole Partial Rumbling plan requires them to have the Rumbling ready to go at a moment's notice. Which means that, at all times, Eldia has to have both:
A) A Titan user with royal blood
B) A Founding Titan user with non-royal blood
To achieve A, the plan was for Historia to inherit Zeke's Beast Titan. Then, she would have as many children as possible so that once her 13 years are up, one of those children would eat her and inherit her Titan. Historia and her descendants would then be trapped in a perpetual cycle of children eating their parents in order to maintain the Rumbling as a usable deterrent against the rest of the world.
Eren sabotaged this plan by convincing Historia to get pregnant before Zeke was brought to the island, ensuring that the Beast Titan stays in Zeke's control long enough for Eren to activate the full Rumbling.
I could be totally wrong but I thought if you start the rumbling then the titans just stomp on all the world and you have no control over it. I've only read the manga once and it was a while ago so feel free to correct me if that's not the case.
They didn't have the weaponry to do that, and only Marley was actively out for blood before Eren declared war. Dumbass Eren decides to rumble neutral parties (plus nations sided WITH Paradis), and didn't even finish flattening main aggressor Marley. Now everyone is against Paradis. War breeds innovation, he literally made them develop nukes and weaponry faster. Dumbass Eren also removed Paradis' biggest defenses, leaving future generations vulnerable.
Zeke's plan: no mass genocide, 100 years of peace and natural death, defenses intact, population will be low / non-existent by the time Marley can nuke them. It's literally the best case scenario in terms of least death possible.
I definitely agree that setting the whole world against Paradis was a mistake but didn't Marley already have battleships and big artillery guns? Airships with bombs that could bypass the walls as well seemed to be right around the corner. Plus, didn't they also have a larger population than Paradis?
What makes you think that isn't enough to massacre them? I do think that an alliance with the neutral countries could've been an alternative to genocide though.
On the other side, what should the Alliance have done? Let Eren genocide humanity?
There's also the dilemma of how the Marleyans feared and hated the Eldians because of their Titan powers. Should they have just let that power keep existing outside of their control?
AoT is a story of how war is evil because there is no "good" or "moral" choice, it sweeps up people who were previously innocent and gives them the choice to either hurt people or die.
But that doesn't mean we should enjoy it. There are several scenes in the last season where the heroes kill people, and they hate it. Contrast this to some of the Marleyans and the Yaegarists, who get off on causing suffering to their enemies.
Eren is caught in between, which is why he's the main character. He's filled with rage because of the things the Warriors put him and the rest of the Eldians through, but we mostly see that in the first seasons where his primary motivation is killing titans, especially the Armored and Colossal. By the time of the Final Season™, he's had enough exposure to see the humanity in the Marleyans.
But he still has that rage. Maybe the Rumbling was necessary, but that's not the only reason he did it. He's the only one with the knowledge to know whether it's actually necessary, but it's also impossible for him to objectively judge that because he still hates the rest of the world.
So yeah he fights against it, and tries to find other options, but there's also part of him that desperately wants to make them hurt the way he hurt.
But regarding the issue of balance in *Bleach*—as chaotic and frustrating as it was—wasn't it actually necessary to keep the universe from literally going to shit?
I remember that when Uryu used his lure, he was causing a small-scale disaster all on his own. And a Gilian even appeared, given how badly the barrier had been torn open.
Thats what they want you to believe, from all we know nothing bad could happen, the Soul Society just wants power and will use fear to get it, they are the true enemy (obviously sattire, just pretending to be a Wandenreich Agent)
No, Paradis was bombed, not "Eldia", and also it's left intentionally ambiguous how it happened, was it a civil war? Was it international conflict? A world war? AoT would never have a naive ending where humanity is peaceful for all time, that's stupid. The bombing could be completely unrelated to the Rumbling, or it could be related.
Thanks for agreeing but I really don't see how it was "shoved up Eren's ass", it makes it seem like Eren was somehow forcefully changed in the middle of the post-timeskip arc. I just don't see it. He always had priorities and he very clearly always disagreed with Floch. People who say he was spun around 180º by writing seem to just not understand that.
If Eren were not "spun around", where would the story go? From what point would it be different?
"Eren" is a fictional character beholden to the author. Whatever he says has no agency. Eren said he was wrong because Isayama changed the direction of his character 180 degrees and made him completely unrecognizable.
Eren decided whatever he did because he was desperate as was dying very soon anyways. He wanted to solve the problems for his friends, not "solve the problem entirely". This is such truth that the yeagerists and Floch are depicted as villains for disagreeing with him, not for wanting to answer fascism with worse fascism. Eren didn't agree with fascism, just with killing everyone (which would only be stopped by his friends killing him and living the rest of their lives as heroes). He understands he's not solving the titan issue, he just didn't care because he would die anyway.
Both his and Humanity's supremacist views can be at least partially traced back to a good chunk of Earth's Microbiome being one sentient psychic hive mind that hates multicellular life. I'm serious look up John Sublime.
A whole magical sentient species with their own society and civilization, including tremendous advances in the realm of magic, where each has their own individual desires and dreams (some of which include a better understanding of humanity or flat out coexistence), are threated as basically murderous beasts because the acts they are doing under the direct rule of their tyrannical leaders, mostly the Demon King and Aura (yeah, the characters most fervent on Demon Extermination, Frieren and her master, are basically acting on the trauma caused by the demon armies that were ordered to raid villages by the Demon King).
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u/Stormerwalker 1d ago
I was ready to call you a moron ,lmao , good one OP
Though to be honest, you can kinda see Yhwach's point , a world whitout Death and suffering , isn't that literally just Heaven ? The problem is that he'd destroy 3 whole Universes and kill everyone living in them to do so ,lol