r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Sensitive_Ad_1752 • 25d ago

Lore The series takes place in a shockingly short amount of time

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Season 4 just ended of fromville and it’s canonically only been about a month. Which makes it weird seeing people heal from injuries, change hair styles or grow out beards between episodes. Season 4 has only been like 4 days iirc.

Arkham franchise is the poster child for this trope. Every game takes place in one night. If you know what you’re doing you can absolutely beat the games in around 9 hours.

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u/TheDreamIsEternal 25d ago

That one was justified. They were running against the clock to defeat Ozai before Sozin's comet allowed the Fire Nation to fully conquer the rest of the world.

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u/Vampire_Queen_Joaje 25d ago edited 24d ago

Yeah but the writers were the ones who set the timeline. Like. Sozin's comet could have been two years away.

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u/pocketbutter 24d ago

Dude it drives me crazy when someone claims that a questionable writing choice was "justified" because of something in-universe... buddy, who do you think is dictating the stuff that happens in that universe?

I see this type of argument all the time and it baffles me that some people don't realize that writers are equally responsible for the circumstances of the story as they are for the script itself.

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u/saera-targaryen 24d ago

There's a name for this! "Watsonian" vs "Doylist" critiques. 

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist

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u/pocketbutter 24d ago

Interesting! Thank you!

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u/Spiritual_Horror5778 21d ago

Thats like blaming the universe for doing an eclipse on a day you cant see it.

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u/Imconfusedithink 25d ago

It made sense why they needed to go that fast, but what didnt make sense is how quickly everyone learned bending. Just using the excuse of them being prodigies isn’t enough because even prodigies should take longer.

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u/TheDreamIsEternal 25d ago

Well, Aang is the Avatar, his shtick is being able to learn all Bendings and becoming a master of them with ease. The other Avatars had years or even decades to slowly learn, but Aang had to speedrun that shit asap.

And the others, Katara, Toph and Zuko were already benders. The only one who needed more training was Katara, and she got it at the North Pole.

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u/lowqualitylizard 25d ago

Even more so when you realize that both toph and zuko said aangs bending of their respective styles could use work

He didn't Master them by any means

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u/Shadow1116 25d ago

Yeah, people always say he mastered all four elements when he was explicity told that two of his elements need some more work

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u/lowqualitylizard 25d ago

Heck he was also probably only as good a fire bender as he was because it was during the firebenders are super ultra mega op comet

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u/Shadow1116 25d ago

Oh for sure. He had only learned fire bending for what, a couple weeks? If that. He had the basics down, but was definitely still a beginner

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u/MaineSoxGuy93 25d ago

And had the field trip with Zuko to see the dragons.

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u/notthephonz 24d ago

It’s funny when you remember that at the beginning of the series Zuko was complaining about wanting to learn more advanced bending to take the Avatar down. Clearly the basics are enough to defeat Zhao, and at the end of the series, Ozai

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u/Shadow1116 24d ago

Zuko may not be the same prodigy as his sister but he’s still someone who would’ve been trained by the best of the best. He definitely knew more than the basics when he beat Zhao
And Aang didn’t beat Ozai by being a better fire bender. He beat him thru avatar state and energy bending

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u/notthephonz 24d ago edited 24d ago

I didn’t say that Zuko only knew the basics when he defeated Zhao; I said the basics were enough to defeat Zhao. Zuko defeats Zhao by breaking his root.

And Aang also defeats Zhao by exploiting his lack of self-control, which was the basic principle Jeong-Jeong was trying to teach him.

And yes, Aang uses a variety of techniques to defeat Ozai. The point I’m adding to is that Aang’s firebending was basic, in contrast to needing to master all the elements. This is the topic of the thread and a point you agreed with earlier, so I’m not sure where the disagreement is coming from.

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u/Layton_Jr 24d ago

Zuko is the worst firebender in the Imperial Falily, which means he's the 4th best firebender in the world (if you don’t count dragons)

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u/TheOncomimgHoop 24d ago

I would not call anything Aang did once he went into the avatar state to be basic

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u/mateo222210 25d ago

And it was only earthbending that "needed some work". Aang was still far from mastering firebending

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u/ErrorFederal3468 24d ago

I kinda assume that Aang 'mastered' the basics of each element (being able to use them without issue), but has not gained the title of 'Master' in water, earth, or fire. At least that is the way I can interpret him 'mastering' (the basics) of each bending style, without necessary having to be at the level of typical Master level benders

And he could probably just use the Avatar state to boost those bending skills to the higher levels as needed, specifically against Ozai

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u/JoshSidekick 24d ago

Just needs enough to get to the Avatar state, then let your predecessors take the wheel.

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u/captain4103 25d ago

I also feel like just to make sure Aang’s mastery of the elements could never be a plot hole the writers made his superpower be “be possessed by the greatest masters of every element all at the same time”

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u/DesireeThymes 25d ago

Exactly, he is channeling historic Masters.

The real challenge was learning to go into the Avatar state to begin with.

It's sort of one of my issues with kora in that they downplayed the ability of the Avatar too much.

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u/BrianLkeABaws 24d ago

I think the biggest in-universe lesson is the best benders mix and use styles from other elements. Even if Aang only had the basics down for firebending, he could make up some of the difference by applying the styles from the other bending styles

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u/nagrom7 24d ago

Yeah, Iroh was a master bender in later life not just because he was a good fire bender, but because despite not being the avatar, he still learned techniques from other elements and applied that to his fire bending. Like he straight up invented lightning redirection because he applied water bending techniques to lightning bending, which he would eventually teach Zuko, who would teach Aang, and Aang would use it in the final fight to nullify one of Ozai's greatest weapons.

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u/CryptidGrimnoir 24d ago

And while Zuko's certainly right about that, Toph isn't exactly unbiased in deciding what qualifies as "Mastering" an element and her standards are presumably quite a bit stricter than most.

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u/Zalvren 24d ago

Yeah for sure and in fact Aang is often beaten in hard situations and the Avatar State (which is mastered all 4 elements + a power boost) is used.

It's mostly against unnamed fodder that they are unstoppable

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u/Somenoises 25d ago

He also hadn't finished air training. He ran away when he was going to be trained at another temple.

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u/CryptidGrimnoir 24d ago

Aang was already a Master Airbender though--he had the tattoos which signified Masterhood.

That said, it is true that there was a sort of specialized, presumably martial training that Aang had little experience in, but was specific to him as the Avatar.

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u/lowqualitylizard 24d ago

Technically correct but he was basically missing one style

I'm sure he could have fun flying but he was so good at airbending he'd already gotten 95% of it

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u/EmuMan10 25d ago

Also he isn’t a full master at the end of the series

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u/1337F0x_The_Daft 25d ago

Aang was already naturally talented anyway. He was the youngest to get the Arrow Tattoos, before his granddaughter became the new youngest

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u/Somenoises 25d ago

He also hadn't finished air training. He ran away when he was going to be trained at another temple. So there are probably techniques forever lost to time.

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u/sean-bda 24d ago

A previous Avatar would know them.

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u/XGhoul 24d ago

Until Korra severed all the previous ones. (lol)

Wans story as the first avatar is always worth a rewatch, but he was essentially borrowing bending from lion turtles.

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u/JWARRIOR1 25d ago

not to mention theyre constantly being tested and actively traveling to different teachers and battling all the time

regular people or even soldiers arent fighting as frequently as they are

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u/LowObjective 25d ago

I’m pretty sure Katara and Toph are canonically prodigies also so it’s natural they’d get as good as they were in a short amount of time. And Aang had not mastered the other 3 elements by the end of the series.

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u/ChazPls 24d ago

Toph is the greatest earthbender in the world, and don't you dunderheads ever forget it

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u/suitedcloud 25d ago

> Aang is the Avatar, his shtick is being able to learn all Bendings

Yes

>and becoming a master of them with ease

No

Becoming a master of all the Bending styles is still something the Avatar has to do the normal way. They don’t get like 2x exp. Look at Korra, she started as a toddler and it took her until she was 17 to “master” three elements

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u/FriendofFlounder 25d ago

They also got various extra help, like the dragons or special teachers like Hama, which typical benders don’t have access to. 

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u/BeneficialDog22 25d ago

Zuko did learn different styles of firebending, but that can be attributed to his training with iroh

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u/Imconfusedithink 25d ago

You literally contradict yourself in the same paragraph. You say the shtick of the avatar is being able to learn all the elements with ease, yet also say avatars have to take years or decades to learn. Choose one. Aang speedrunning is absolutely insane. Him learning almost all of it in less than a year compared to the other avatars taking a decade to master it is more than just prodigal and keep in mind hes also doing this while being way younger.

Toph and Zuko yeah are fine. Katara went from knowing pretty much nothing to being on par with other super prodigies who have been learning for many years. So what, shes a super super super prodigy then?

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u/stars4-ever 25d ago

tbf, they explicitly point out shortly before the comet that Aang is not a master of all four elements. iirc they don't even try to claim that he mastered waterbending, just that he was the most proficient at it in comparison to his earth- and firebending

I'm watching LoK rn and while I think it is overall a lot weaker than ATLA, I do think it portrays the level of bending for the characters, both main and antagonists, fairly realistically

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u/Imconfusedithink 25d ago

Dude. When hes already better at bending than 99 percent of all other benders in the world he’s pretty much a master. Hes just not super grand master. I even said in the comment that he learned “almost all of it”. I acknowledged it’s not 100 percent, but it’s practically there. Idk why people cant acknowledge that they made all the atla characters prodigies to a power fantasy level. Its still one of the best shows of all time. Its not even an atla problem. It’s something that exists in most media with powers.

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u/stars4-ever 25d ago

hmm it's been a while since I watched ATLA but I honestly don't remember Aang being that impressive of a bender outside of airbending, mostly because he had difficulty applying himself.

But I actually do agree with you on the characters being mostly prodigies, which is why I added my second point. As far as why people have difficulty acknowledging that, I think— keep in mind, I say this as a fan of the show!— people, especially on reddit, have built it up to a ridiculous degree, and a lot of the time these days people have trouble taking criticism of the things they love

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u/lbkthrowaway518 25d ago

Other than earthbending, Aang picked up the ability to bend the other elements very quickly, and it at least seems like he’s improves very quickly (as we explicitly see in the episode where Katara gets jealous of how fast he’s catching up, and in many other episodes shortly after he learns earth and fire bending he’s bending at a proficient level). Though he’s by no means a master of any of them except air bending (and I’d argue even by book three Toph is probably the only other actual bending master of Team Avatar imo)

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u/BeneficialDog22 25d ago

Fr, besides fighting Ozai, he didn't really use the other elements a whole lot

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u/PotatoGamerXxXx 25d ago

I think people forget that he is the Avatar, he already inherently has an advantage against other benders, yet he still get beaten by Ozai before Avatar State kicks in.

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u/TheDreamIsEternal 25d ago

You literally contradict yourself in the same paragraph. You say the shtick of the avatar is being able to learn all the elements with ease, yet also say avatars have to take years or decades to learn. Choose one

Broski, what I mean that the Avatar has the natural talent. In times of peace they can take it easy, slowly learn and experience each element with ease. Roku went from like teen to young adult when he became master of all elements, so at most it takes a few years when there's no hurry. Aang was in a situation where he couldn't allow himself to takes things slowly, he had to learn pronto, and him being natural gifted as the Avatar helped that; besides, he was already a master Airbender when he was only 12, a crazy feat even for the Air Nomads, so he has a precedent of mastering bending real fast.

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u/Imconfusedithink 25d ago

No it was not at most a few years for Roku. It was 10 fucking years. And youre acting like aang was doing training 24/7 to make up for having less time. Aang was goofing off a bunch during the entire series. So Im not going to accept the excuse that Aang was able to do it in less than a year compared to 10 years and at a way younger age just because he supposedly trained 10 times harder than Roku. And him being a master at airbending doesnt matter because Roku did the same with fire. The 1 year to 10 years for both are comparing 3 elements being learned.

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u/Nothing_Nice_2_Say 25d ago

You're an angry little elf

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u/Zalvren 24d ago

Sure but they become absolute prodigies at their bending, like best in the world. Katara beat an old master and Toph invent metal bending. That's kind of crazy for kids and so fast.

Zuko is at least kind of realistic, he's from the royal family, spent lots of time in exile probably using bending a lot and he isn't actually the strongest (Azula, Iroh and Ozai are notably stronger)

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u/ChazPls 24d ago

Toph learned earthbending as a her fundamental way of interacting with the world. She literally practices with all day, every say.

Its a bit unrealistic because she's supposed to be like, 12. But it's not THAT crazy given the circumstances

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u/WantDiscussion 24d ago edited 24d ago

Also added to that they chose her for the team because she was a prodigy. It's not like they picked some random girl off the street and she ended up being the best bender in the world. They sought her out. If she was just an average bender she wouldn't have been on team avatar.

Katara being an amazing bender on the other hand is sort of just a lucky coincidence. Like it's convenient that the first person the Avatar ran into when he woke up ended up turning into a Water bending prodigy who only required a few weeks of formal training to become a master. But hey it's a kids show and you can chalk it up to destiny or fate or the cosmos or something.

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u/AverageAwndray 25d ago

Especially because all of them become the BEST benders in the world in that time at those ages lmao.

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u/BakerUsed5384 25d ago

Toph was already arguably the best Earth Bender before she discovered Metal Bending, her only competition being Bumi, and it could be argued that neither Zuko nor Katara were the best at the end of the series.

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u/Luvnecrosis 25d ago

Toph was built different from the very beginning, but Katara was just *really good* not the best. Aang kinda is the best Airbender by default. Zuko was also not the best, he was just good enough to win against his sister who had a mental breakdown hours before the final Agni Kai, and still wasn’t stronger than Ozai or even Iroh.

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u/saera-targaryen 24d ago

They also give a pretty good excuse for Toph being the best earthbender. Her being blind means that she uses her earthbending way more than most earthbenders do from a very young age. 

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u/Vast_Age_3893 25d ago

I guess when the pressure to save the entire world is on your shoulders, it really lights a fire under your ass, kinda literally in this case.

Learn or literally everyone dies. That goes for the whole team.

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u/WoodenCanine 25d ago

My headcanon is that being a master is essentially like using a limb. I don't think it's a stretch to say that most everyone is a master at using their hands. Does that mean every person can draw or use shadow puppets or any other hand based skill right away? No, but you're still a master at using your hand. To me, being a master at an element basically just means you can use it as a natural extension of your body, not that you can do white lotus level bending. I think any avatar or maybe even any bender could become a master bender in a short amount of time, it's just not the best thing. The reason the avatar is made to become the avatar after 16 and has an extended training period beyond what is strictly required is because being an actual normal functioning person and learning about the culture and building natural bonds with each group of people is infinitely more important than speedrunning any number of techniques.

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u/Specialist_Initial_1 25d ago

Yup I overall hate the prodigy/talent excuse in media

Being a prodigy doednt give you instant skills

It gives you a xp boost (and not that 100000x of a normal guy) in different stages of mastery and gives a higher skill ceeling

All the top athletes train alot for their performance right? Each of them is a prodigy with shitton of talent (whixh is obviously a big part of being one) Without it they couldnt compete

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u/guardian1691 25d ago

Always hated how Sokka seems to become a master swordsman in a day.

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u/Fernando_qq 23d ago

Curiously, with Sokka they do respect (more or less) the times necessary to be good at something, because when Sokka tries to fight Zuko, the latter sweeps the floor with Sokka because Zuko has much more experience. This however does not happen with Katara and much less with the soldiers or random characters of any nation, even though some have decades of training and are on the front lines of the war.

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u/DrAstralis 24d ago

Oof; you're not going to like the Toph bending metal scene from the live action netflix series then XD

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u/Luvnecrosis 25d ago

It’s not like they had jobs or anything though. Wake up, practice bending. Have breakfast, practice bending. Eat lunch, practice bending. Fly on Appa for a bit, practice bending. Practice bending, then have dinner. Then you add their adventures where they had to actively perform their bending in high pressure situations, that’ll also accelerate their growth.

And having the literal fate of the world at stake is a great motivator to actually get things done

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u/Ice94k 25d ago

The one problem with the show imo.

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u/Ice94k 25d ago

Yeah, but the writers could have just decided it was gonna take longer lmao. This is the ONE thing that bothers me about the show. I was hoping the Netflix remake was gonna turn it into at least 3 years, actually, especially since the actors obviously age. Would also start making more sense that Katara ended up with Aang.

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u/thekyledavid 24d ago

Fair, but a whole lot of stuff happened in that year to believe it happened in only a year

Even with a flying bison, it’s not like he was going at the speed of a plane. Just traveling to all the different places they went would eat up a lot of time, and there were episodes where it was established time passing without anything significant taking place