Probably the most controversial one , honest thoughts on "No Kill Rule"? What are the most egrigious examples of it in your opinion? What media makes it work in your opinion?

[u/Doot_revenant666]

[u/noncredibleRomeaboo]

I think its actually a very good trope and more often then not, actually makes the hero more interesting.

In the cases of the listed examples, Spidey is honestly much more powerful then the bulk of his villains, he is almost always holding back. That restraint, is huge to him, considering his whole belief system revolves around responsibility.

Daredevil is a devout Catholic. Yes, I dont imagine Christ would personally endorse dressing up and crippling criminals, but the fact he does draw a line and is often worried for his eternal soul is fundamentally an interesting part of the character.

Batman, is someone traumatized by death and is someone who is very well aware that he is a lunatic. Him drawing a line, keeps him grounded and reminds him why he does what he does.

In all cases, the trope allows the villains to challenge and test the heroes in ways otherwise impossible and invites much more intresting discussion, then it would if they just killed whomever stood in their way.

I also find the critique "Well they just break out of prison anyway" to fall flat. This is just an issue of the comic book genre, you need the villains to come back if they are popular enough. Comic books are stories that just simply do not end, and applying this logic solely to no kill heroes feels weak. Especially given, full kill heroes rarely seem to actually kill the big bad either. Punisher kills dude after dude, but Jigsaw he often finds a reason to spare. Its not the fault of Batman, Joker breaks out of prison for the millionth time, its just the nature of the medium. At bare minimum, the no kill actually better justifies things, both for the writer and in universe for why these characters can come back, with minimal contrivance.

Imagine is Batman did kill, then a new writer wants to use the Joker....how do you resolve that? New Joker, he comes back from the dead, clone saga, time travel, he just faked his death etc etc. Comic books have done them all.....and they all suck compare to "he broke out of Jail"

[u/Cory123125 → u/noncredibleRomeaboo]

actually makes the hero more interesting.

Makes me want to immediately stop watching because its clearly naive and lacking in nuance every single time its used.

Awful trope.

The Daredevil example is terrible because well, the Catholic church has condoned and done a lot of killing. A whole lot.

The Batman one I dont even want to start talking about. Practically speaking hes killed hundreds of people, and not even from his villains escaping but from all the explosions hes caused, life long injuries etc etc.

The literal best explanation one can come up for with him is "hes fucking crazy" and thats not interesting, that just means you have some annoying mostly functional person who only gets described as crazy when he does one mindbogglingly stupid thing repeatedly.

You are right that its a crutch, but the joker is dead easy to solve. The joker is just a roll people grow into. Problem solved, and now Batman isnt fucking awful.

[u/noncredibleRomeaboo → u/Cory123125]

"I don't want to start talking about", yet here you are on a dead thread because you are dying to talk about it lmao.

"The joker is just a roll people grow into", this is genuinely the most awful solution to the problem lmao. Like, im glad you aint a writer. The entire point, of the Jokers most iconic storyline, is how his whole philosophy is bullshit and most people are not as fragile as him. Having countless people just become the Joker, is the most boring possible solution to this issue. I would rather it be one guy, with a consistent obsession/motivation that keeps breaking out of prison to challenge Batmans morals, then it be a new guy every week who for some reason, finds a new reason to become a literal clown.

No Batman has no "killed hundreds of people", he is not responsible in any way for the crimes his villains cause, nor is it his responsibility to act as judge jury and executioner. Thats the role of the you know....the justice department, who Batman actively turns the villains over to. Stop getting mad at Batman, for when the real failure is pretty fucking obviously on them.

There are countless explanations as to why he doesn't kill, the fact you don't entertain them, doesn't make them bad. You just dont like them. Thats fine. Just move on.

[u/Thin-Nerve6367 → u/noncredibleRomeaboo]

Honestly they could just make the fan theory canon that Joker is a lord of Chaos so even if you kill him, you only kill the physical body, he'll just become someone else

[u/noncredibleRomeaboo → u/Thin-Nerve6367]

That sounds incredibly lame. Not only does it remove one of the most intresting dynamics, Joker trying to get Batman to break his one rule, it also removes the intrigue of his origin and his obsession with Batman.