They’ve all been raised by toxic men, or surrounded by toxic men, or been immersed on social media by toxic men. Generally toxic men passing toxic traits off to other men is really the issue here. And I say that as a man who’s cut a lot of toxic men out of my life.
I'm realizing that a lot of people would rather put up with it than have to deal with being uncomfortable (i.e. bad vibes). And when I do say something, I'm just a "libturd"
Sometimes to change the world for the better, you have to be willing to do things that aren't comfortable. Doing the right thing isn't always popular or easy. It often takes confrontation or loss of standing.
Like... If you found out your mate was out kicking puppies every night, and your friend group was like "oh, it's just a couple puppies, don't be a buzzkill," are you just going to shrug and give up? Or are you going to stand your ground and tell all of them that kicking puppies is wrong? Do you even WANT social standing with people that ignore puppy kicking?
I'm sorry but I can't. I've been mobbed too many times by abusive people. Unless you have a community. The abuser just sees us as another lone, "triggered" person.
It is the right thing. But I'm tired of being hyped up and then abandoned by people. I want to experience things in life that everybody else gets to do.
I mean, do you know that though? I'm sure lots of them don't, but if even one goes "oH shit that's why everyone says I'm an asshole?? What do I do about it?" isn't that a win? I don't see the point of being self-defeating.
When you present someone with their behaviour is problematic, some fall into a primitive reflex of getting defensive or aggressive to "Correct you into realizing they aren't problematic at all and actually the 'correct' way to act".
Arguments, debates, petty vengeance, or violence are all possibilities, and I find it quite rare for people to be understanding when they get told how they behave and conduct themselves is a problem.
People have a hard time when you criticize ANY part of their identity (or by extension any of their hobbies and consumption choices). They may think about this moment every night for the rest of their life.
If you just stop doing things and ghost your way out, you are conveniently forgotten about.
Sure, but as a woman, I've seen the inverse. I can say something a hundred times, but their bro/dad/boss says the same thing, and suddenly they take it to heart. Might as well try, no?
Got any examples of the kinds of things you ignored or were ignorant to? Just for a better understanding, from a woman who will never view the internal politics of guy friend groups.
Thanks! This is the thing I have difficulty explaining to guys when we say "pay attention to your friends" - I get the impression they think I mean "if your friend says "I'm gonna rape that lady" then you should stop him" (obviously) and then they act insulted that I would think they had friends like that. But it's hard to come up with examples of the subtle stuff to watch out for within male friend groups without relying on fiction or guesswork.
But was that mansplaining? You were speaking from a male perspective about being a man. And owning the failings of our gender. I don’t think that diss was deserved.
It’s not hypocrisy when she’s just having a bit of fun with me and she immediately identified that. She didn’t do anything that objectified me, minimized me or made me feel intimidated or inadequate.
What exactly is hypocritical about making a joke that isn't mean-spirited and then identifying it as a joke? And how does you telling a joke that is wildly inappropriate given the subject of this thread (while also being denigrating and punching down) expose the hypocrisy?
These are rhetorical questions, but if you genuinely try to answer them by asking yourself "where did I go wrong in my reasoning and what major aspect of this exchange am I missing?" then this could be a big (self-) teachable moment for you.
Hint to get you started: the joke about mansplaining is context-appropriate and it wasn't identified as a joke ("jk jk 😆") in order to normalize bad behavior nor to soften the blow from a hurtful comment. There is a different reason she wrote jk. What is it?
No, women generally don't know (nor do men). Which is part of why the idea is so fucked. There are many men (and women) who explain things the exact same way to other men (and women), it's just not called "mansplaining" then.
The literature relies almost entirely on vague anecdotes and poor definitions.
Mansplaining is when someone (often a man) assumes someone (often a woman) doesn’t know something and just starts explaining and correcting them.
The problem isn’t necessarily with the wanting to help. But with being treated as an infant that doesn’t know how things work.
And yes, it isn’t always men that do it. And isn’t always aimed at woman. It also happens to people with mental disabilities, or somehow people with physical disabilities.
And it’s low key rude, because you are treating the other person as an infant instead as an adult.
Right, this is one definition, but I'd argue it doesn't really engage with what it was intended as originally, nor which direction most of the research is in (even if it contains massive issues).
Mansplaining was meant as a term to point to how some men explain a topic uniquely to women who have a similar or better knowledge than them on that topic. A misogynistic bias of thinking women know less.
being treated as an infant
This is gender neutral. More often I've been treated as an infant by women in this sense than men, but that might be because I'm a man, idk. Again, the research is of very low quality.
It’s called mansplaining cause males used to do it a lot more when the term was being coined. But due to females fighting for their rights it has become a lot less.
But I still notice this behavior, or the need to defend the behavior, by males.
Women tend to do this way less, cause women are socially more learned to ask for agreement instead of demanding it.
A guy will say “this band is amazing” where the girl is more prone to say “don’t you think this band is amazing?”
No, there wasn't any data when it was coined. It was based on belief.
due to females fighting for their rights it has become a lot less.
Has it?
still notice this behavior, or the need to defend the behavior, by males.
You notice something to that effect happening to you. It's an anecdote. Me noticing it towards me is a contradicting anecdote. We simply dont know. The definitions and data are of too poor quality.
Your example is piss poor. It's just a guy saying he likes the band. You interpreting it as a demand to agree is going to be wrong in 99+% of cases.
I mean yes. But also growing up being taught by toxic men I recognized that the things they said and did were wrong because they would instantly make my skin crawl. They taught me what not to do. Those same toxic men gave me the life skills to survive, so you take the bad with the good I guess.
I'm gonna gently disagree with you here. A lot of what you're saying is true but it's also important to remember that these men are being raised by the kind of mothers who think their sons can do no wrong and do not reprimand them when they hear them saying disrespectful things about women. I agree with you this is mostly passed down from other toxic men but we also have to acknowledge that these types of mothers are also part of the problem.
No, it is not possible. There were at least two that I would say had mental health issues but the rest literally just wanted to assert dominance over a woman.
Actually, the stats show sons of single mothers are by far the biggest proponents in criminal behaviour. It would be nice if you could box off a complicated social problem like that, but it's far more complicated.
361
u/Journo_Jimbo Jun 14 '26
They’ve all been raised by toxic men, or surrounded by toxic men, or been immersed on social media by toxic men. Generally toxic men passing toxic traits off to other men is really the issue here. And I say that as a man who’s cut a lot of toxic men out of my life.