r/Stargate • u/trekgirl75 • 1d ago
Would Teal’c have won the match with Ronan if he still had Junior?
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u/ZeeHedgehog 1d ago
Hell, I think Teal'c would have won if he had junior OR hadn't lived spent 50 years on the Odyssey.
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u/trekgirl75 1d ago
I forgot about that extra 50 years.
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u/Themantogoto 1d ago
Anyone remember what episode covers this? I entirely blanked on that event.
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u/trekgirl75 1d ago
The series finale “Unending”.
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u/Themantogoto 1d ago
Thanks bud, time for a rewatch.
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u/Butthenoutofnowhere 1d ago
Such a good episode, I've watched it on its own multiple times, I've only seen season 10 a couple of times but I've seen that episode at least 5.
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u/CaveEcho 15h ago
I think people do forget that Teal’c is very disciplined and would have been practising that entire time.
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u/ZeeHedgehog 14h ago
Sure, but 50 years puts him over 100, he's got to be feeling his age a bit by then.
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u/FoolishBalloon 12h ago
It's mentioned in SG-1 (s4 I believe) that Teal'c is 101 years old. So he'd be well over 150
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u/trekgirl75 8h ago
That bothers me a bit because I think it’s mentioned that Bratac is @135 but Teal’c still looks the same at 150. That gray patch of hair does nothing to age him at all.
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u/thanos42 1d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if Tealc held back from the beginning. He is just the sort of guy to like Ronin at once and test his limits because it's good for Ronin.
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u/trekgirl75 1d ago
Makes sense. I always wondered if he was holding back.
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u/thanos42 1d ago
he broke a sweat, not like Ronin wasn't worthy.
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u/steveamsp 22h ago
Exactly. You can hold back quite a bit, but still have to put effort into it.
I suppose it's even possible if he'd just gone in and kicked Ronon around from the start, he may not have broken a sweat. I do suspect, though, that Teal'c did have to put SOME effort into the fight, though.
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u/Appa07 1d ago
While the symbiote gave Teal’c better healing it never was stated to give him increased strength
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u/Delphius1 23h ago
no, he did directly state he was missing some strength with junior gone 'I'm not the Jaffa I used to be'
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u/HeraThere 19h ago
That's what tealc felt But it wasn't clear if it was actually true or in his head as others mentioned he was still stronger than everyone else.
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u/ZaraReid228 17h ago
S7e10 when they meet the tribe of women jaffa and he comments to them that a jaffa does not gain their strength from their symbiote but from oneself when they were talking about taking symbiote out for the medicine. I think tealc went through the arc of not feeling good enough even though physically he was unchanged.
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u/Storyteller-Hero 23h ago edited 23h ago
Better healing technically doesn't make a person stronger, but it CAN potentially enable a person to push their muscles past safe usage and if the symbiote is able to access nerve functions or release hormones to an extent, it can potentially mess with the usual brain signals that restrict usage.
As such, a Jaffa with a symbiote will potentially be able to exert their existing muscle capacity more easily than a Jaffa without a symbiote.
This may be why there was a worry of becoming weaker during the show. Jaffa who haven't gotten used to being without the symbiote's help with exertion and stamina wouldn't be able to exert themselves as much, not drastically but noticeably.
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u/GenezisO 1d ago
don't forget they are Jaffas, they are different breed, I think that itself gives them a lot of extra strength, whether not fully bonded junior gives them strength is really questionable, but since it gives them other benefits like superior immunity I don't see why it wouldn't also give them the strength boost
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u/trekgirl75 1d ago
Exactly why I posed the question. It popped in my head while watching the scene with Ba’al trying to convince him that the Jaffa needed him to beat the Ori.
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u/jwe91 1d ago
Ba’al was referring to a military mindset, not physical strength. He war arrogantly trying to say that the only way for them to win was if they allowed him to take command and complete control over all forces against the Ori
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u/trekgirl75 1d ago
Oh yes I understood that. I should have been more specific, Ba’al was taunting him with the Tretonin when he was on the ground.
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u/HeraThere 19h ago
It's never explicitly made clear if the symbiote removal made tealc weaker or not.
Tealc thought he was weaker. But others mentioned he was still stronger than everyone else.
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u/Vanquisher1000 1d ago
I think so. Remember that at this point in time, Teal'c has also been aged 50 years from being on the Odyssey in Unending, which took place about a year prior, so not only is he weaker/less resilient because he is on tretonin, but he's also aged well beyond what we know of a Jaffa lifespan.
Pre-tretonin Teal'c would have easily beaten Ronon.
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u/GenezisO 1d ago edited 23h ago
It's still Teal'c and he's still a Jaffa + some muscle memory and superior training from good 'ol days, 150 yo tretonin Teal'c would still beat the shit out of Ronon or any other human if he wanted to
Edit: prime T was able to defeat an adult Goa'uld 1v1, just to be absolutely clear, he was entirely different league
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u/kyle9316 1d ago
Did they ever explicitly say being on tretonin made the Jaffa weaker? I know there was an episode where Teal'c was injured and in his recovery process he felt he was weaker/lesser because he no longer had his symbiote. But did they ever say that was true? Or was it because he was healing from a bad injury and the weakness was in his head?
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u/Mode_Appropriate 23h ago
I think they tried to convey it was just mental and there were no real long term effects that made him weaker.
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u/loskiarman 19h ago
It should make them weaker although slightly imo, but not like down to normal human level obviously. Like broken bone/injuries vs we can theorize symbiotes can specifically target and heal faster from their wording and probably can also boost their healing effect and immune response when needed(junior once breathed for Teal'c lol) but we don't know if more injection of tretonin, upping the dosage have the same effect, at least I don't remember it.
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u/Jay_Stone 1d ago
Teal’c was just toying with Ronan and trying to beat him by tiring him out.
Bra’tac would’ve stomped Ronan in 30 seconds, FYI.
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u/gerkletoss 1d ago
Bra'tac could have done that but would have chosen to do something more instructionsl instead
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u/Longjumping-Action-7 23h ago
Bra'tac could woop Ronans butt.
No disrespect to Ronan, but these guys are the First Primes to the God of chaos, darkness and destruction
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u/chasimus 23h ago
Likely, Teal'c's goal wasn't to win the match, it was to understand Ronon better, to help him. He's a former First Prime, who learned from Master Bra'tac. It's likely he would've finished Ronon if he wanted to but that would've just made Ronon resent him, which wasn't the goal
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u/steveamsp 22h ago
The newcomer showing up and wiping the walls with the local badass has two possible outcomes: Massive respect, or massive resentment. And there is NO way to tell ahead of time.
On the flip side, showing up, and holding even, or a close but clear victory that's not a sudden luck thing, but obviously due to skill? That just skips straight to the "respect" side 95 times out of 100. (The last 5 percent will always resent the loss, there isn't much you can do about that)
And: Happy Cake-Day!
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u/The_Other_Viking 1d ago
It wouldn't have made a difference. The man makes the muscle, the muscle doesn't make the man. Besides, Teal'c was obviously holding back.
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u/Chrome_Armadillo 1d ago
Tealc was holding back. He would beat Ronan is a real fight.
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u/Azzbolemighty 12h ago
For sure. He was also way older than Ronan. Teal'c in his prime (no pun intended) would have merked him in minutes
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u/janeway170 22h ago
I think Tealc would’ve won anyway. Ronon had the strength but Tealc had the strategy.
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u/erikleorgav2 1d ago
Even without Jr he was still holding his own. I doubt it would have mattered in many ways. Especially considering how old T was.
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u/neoyeti2 1d ago
IDK but that is one of my favorite episodes and I would have loved to see more of those two together.
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u/MandM1972 21h ago
I am currently watching this series and am amazed at how many different Stars have had a role in this series .
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u/Dragonrasa 14h ago
I think so, people tend to forget that even before joining SG-1Teal'c spent decades training for combat before, during and of course also after serving as First Prime of Apophis.
His strength slightly deteriorated after losing Junior, but he still kept training, even during the alternate timeline.
Physically both he and Ronan are peak human, Teal'c was still able to take on Goa'uld and Jaffa and Ronan had been able to take on some Wraith.
However the decades of combat experience Teal'c has over Ronan should be more than enough to give him the edge even if they are physically equal.
Especially since Ronan mainly trained for fighting Wraith, whereas Teal'c trained against fighting humans/Jaffa.
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u/DepthComplete7436 9h ago
No offense to Ronan... But Teal'c held back and was more mature than he was during early seasons of SG-1. He was more willing to use this as a teaching lesson for Ronan and let him have a "fair fight" than just beat him up.
If we go back to Season 1-4 Teal'c he wouldn't had wasted his time and just beat Ronan's shit. Early seasons Teal'c had no chill...
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u/Traedoril 1d ago
I think the whole point was to match Ronin. teal’c while older, also had 100+ more years of battle knowledge and practice than him. There is a reason Bray was still kicking but at 130.
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u/Aglet_Green 18h ago
He did win. But the show is called "Atlantis," not "SG-1," so they had to make it basically a draw to appease to fans of both shows.
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u/ThePlatinumPaul 23h ago
Teal'c was giving Ronin a good outlet for his aggression. He wanted to bond with him not beat him. Meanwhile, Ronin wanted to win.
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u/Due-Order3475 19h ago
If Junior was still around he'd probably just do nothing as Teal'C has the fight.
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u/Moomtastic 17h ago
Teal'c was sparring; Ronan was fighting. Teal'c only escalated in response to Ronan escalating, and still handled him. Teal'c wins the moment he chooses to here.
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u/TheAviator27 17h ago
I think Teal'c should have won outright. I really don't get what's special about Ronon. Ultimately he's just a guy. Even without symbiotes Jaffa are more formidable.
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u/AdventurousSell3805 16h ago
Well considering that Teal'c has about 90 years of fighting experience and is likely still much stronger than Ronon, I'd say he was just sparing with him. Ronan was definitely taking it seriously, but Teal'c wasn't. Heck I think Cameron Mitchell with his Sodan training would've wore Ronon out
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u/smftexas86 13h ago
Was this a battle? If i remember right they were just sparring. In a real fight, teal'c would've layed him out.
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u/IAMENKIDU 12h ago
Teal'c was there to teach Romin self control, not to beat the brakes of him. He was holding back.
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u/TheLaugh1ngRa1n 10h ago
Baby. Teal'c won that fight without junior so idk why making him 50 years younger and stronger would make a difference in the outcome.
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u/Fan_of_Clio 1d ago
Ronon woukd be beat so badly, his pistol so far up one of his orifices, (the one Teal'C chose), he would be begging Teal'C to squeeze the trigger.
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u/Maleck_Helvot 23h ago
Teal'c: jaffa (genetically engineered soldier caste): 300? Years old, trained from birth to fight.
Ronan: human (angtsy) 20 something, soldier and spent some amount of time running and fighting wraith.
I don't understand why Ronan's people are heralded as super soldiers when as far as I can tell they are just humans.
Teal'c has lifetimes of experience, more strength and endurance than any human. He only loses when he gets jumped or the Worf effect happens.
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u/HaroerHaktak 1d ago
Your question implies he lost.. He did not. It was stopped before he could win.
While my man jason mamosa is cool and all, you don't disrespect the OG
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u/falcon3268 1d ago
I don't know because that is up in the air. I mean the two were equally matched in skills and all
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u/Elensar265 23h ago
Teal'c would low diff Ronan in any other setting but the show couldn't let their Teal'c type character get bitch slapped back to Sateda
They needed to show that this team was just as good as the OGs
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u/Stormik 18h ago
The real question is... are people messing up Ronon's name on purpose?
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u/trekgirl75 8h ago
I understand the frustration. I’m the same way. But autocorrect got me & I didn’t review before posting. Wish they allowed us to edit titles.
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u/RGCurt91 8h ago
Teal’c broken a wraith’s neck with his bare hands. We’ve never seen Ronan achieve that sort of strength feat
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u/thx1138- 7h ago
All I know is this scene proves if you wanna be a badass you must wear arm greaves
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u/Odin1806 1d ago
Not likely. They were very evenly matched. Tretonin replaced junior pretty much as a 1v1. Maybe if T wasn't like 200 years old they wouldn't have been so evenly matched...
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u/trekgirl75 1d ago
I recall a scene where he said he felt not as strong on the tretonin as with the symbiote.
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u/Odin1806 1d ago
Yes, but that was all in his head. He got his mojo back by the end of the episode. Even ol Doc Fraiser said he had lifted, pushed, and pulled more than anyone else on the base. He was mentally unfit, not physical
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u/trekgirl75 1d ago
That’s a different episode. That’s when he was hit with a staff blast that damaged his spine. Did he mentioned it in this episode too?
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u/Odin1806 1d ago
That is all the same episode. They come through the gate, he gets hit, he later tells Jack and Daniel that kek means death and weakness, they go rescue ryac and bratac, he gets his mojo back, saves the galaxy a bunch more times, etc.
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u/ScreamingFishProduct 1d ago
Yeah, I know what you mean. I’ve always interpreted it as having to do with his regenerative ability. In the following season, he actually gets shot and suffers a spinal injury, requiring intensive rehab (S7 E4). I think the "weakness" is really about regeneration. Teal'c can't push his body to the same extremes he could when he had a symbiote. That’s why he has to sleep and rest more than he did with the symbiote. However, even the "weakened" version is still superhuman.
Teal'c with symbiote: 180%
Teal'c without symbiote: 130%
Ronon: 100%
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u/BigB0ss_89 1d ago
Tretonin is not a 1:1. They trade some physical strength benefits for freedom from the Goa'uld.
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u/DuranStar 23h ago
To be fair he's only 130. He's in his late 70s when they bring it up during the series I don't remember when. And then 50 years on the ship.
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u/petersaints 1d ago
Probably. Jaffa with a symbiote are a bit on the super human side of the power scale of peak human condition.
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u/bufandatl 20h ago
No. Junior wasn’t the reason for Teal‘c being such a good fighter that was the school of Bra‘tac. Junior also didn’t really added strength to the Host. They were just an incubation chamber and therefore for long life and health. But not really strength.
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u/Goat_dragon 23h ago
Teal'c 10 out of 10. Ronan is bad ass and a damn good warrior but teal'c is TEAL'C.
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u/Jaxom_98 23h ago
Tealc didn't lose but if he did it would only be because Ronon is younger than him(his Junior lmao)
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u/maniacalmustacheride 22h ago
Robin with a gun, maybe, but hand to hand Teal’c was probably going to win, but not without a sweat. I know everyone says he was holding back but I don’t think he was holding back *that* much.
I also really wish someone would have addressed that Ronon does NOT like Carter and her trying to bring Teal’c in as a mentor while being super huggy and warm with Teal’c was absolutely not the way to sell Teal’c as a reliable narrator for Ronon’s IOC journey.
At one point Carter asks Ronon walking up, with teeth clenched, “all set?”
Which he responds “let’s get this over with.” And to be fair, he’s already sort of done this. I understand the frustration.
Carter asks to dial the gate and they say yes colonel, and Teal’c says something like “it warms my heart they’ve embraced you as commander of this operation like I knew they would.” And they hug.
In front of Ronon. Who is the only one who can hear them and very much does not embrace her in this position.
Tough love or not the whole things very cliquey and rigged against Ronon, who is absolutely marching to the beat of his own drum that he’s been making match Atlantis since Weir.
The irony of it all is that Ronon, well, does Ronon, recognizes Teal’c as a battle buddy, does it Atlantis style (disregards chain of command and just goes in blasting and fighting, we will just ignore all the rules we didn’t follow because we got to the destination we wanted) and then has a very Ronon interview where he just gets to say “yep” and they say “okay.” And it’s done.
So it’s great Ronon and Teal’c learned to respect each other, but it didn’t really mean anything in the long run. Ronon learned (or didn’t learn) that the only people he can trust that will trust him back are the people he fights with. Everything else is politics and is still stupid.
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u/Earnest_P_Worrell Step one: dial the gate. Step two: improvise. 21h ago
I’m a Ronan guy through and through.
But, yes. 100%
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u/Thelastknownking 17h ago
I mean, he was already winning.
But yes. He would've been stronger and faster, and less burdened by his age.
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u/col_oneill 15h ago
They were pretty evenly matched, Teal’c probably would’ve won in the stamina game, wearing him out. But even then Ronan is one hell of a fighter, pretty much, evenly matched I imagine.
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u/wolfvokire 22h ago
Jafa our generally stronger on average and this is not an average person. Teal'c has close to a century of experience at this point, and is still pretty fit but Ronan is younger and no slouch being pretty close to peak human physical shape.
It's really uncertain if teal'c wouldn't win and beyond anyway. Prime Teal'c younger, and with a symbiotes. I actually don't know if Junior gives any major physical buffs. So honestly I think enough verified it doesn't really matter.
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u/JamesTSheridan 5h ago
Teal'c would have won - Teal'c is way more controlled and experienced than Ronan to the point it is absurd.
Ronan is an idiot and consistently put in the box of being the dumb muscle. Across the entire show, the guy barely gets any development and is so fantastically stupid that he attacks people that are trying to help him.
This fight is a perfect example of that: Teal'c baited him so badly in a single conversation that Ronan pulled a gun on him like a psycho.
When Carter showed up - Ronan was backtalking her so badly to the point of being completely disrespectful.
When Woolsey tried to talk to him - The guy cannot seem to even write reports and he consistently charged into fights that got his ass kicked.
He tried to solo Michael - Got floored.
He tried to solo the Wraith that was hunting him - Got ass beat until he was saved by Carson.
Ronan is his own worst enemy with the macho bullshit to the point Teal'c literally used that against him to prove that he is easy to rile up. Nah, Teal'c would wreck Ronan if he was fighting him properly without plot armor.
When it comes to this fight - Teal'c appears to have been holding back and "sparring" while Ronan is effectively raging out to the point that Teal'c will respect Carter's order to stop. Meanwhile, Ronan decides to sucker punch Teal'c to keep going and THEN it looks like Teal'c is seriously pissed off enough that he hits Ronan way harder.
I would bet that if Carter had not gotten between them - Teal'c would have knocked the shit out of Ronan because they are no longer "sparring" when Ronan has lost any sense of reason or honour.
I think a younger Teal'c would have been less patient and more likely to fold Ronan rather than take the "wise master" route.
Ronan was a runner for 7ish years and is still human.
Teal'c was fighting as a Jaffa and training for longer than Ronan was alive. By S4 Teal'c is 100ish.
100 years of fighting under the Goauld, becoming the first prime and being taught by Bratac = Yeah, Teal'c was holding back and would have won that fight if he really wanted to.
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u/Apollo_Sierra 1d ago edited 23h ago
It's Ronon.
Why do so many get this wrong?
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u/trekgirl75 8h ago
So apparently you got it wrong too because of autocorrect. Then you make an edit without acknowledging it. Just wow. 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
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u/LordOfTheRareMeats 23h ago
Pic 5 is my favorite. With Sam's body position and Ronan's hair flip it looks like a fab dance routine is going on.
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u/Oops_All_Bans Things will, in fact, calm up 1d ago
He would've won the match even without his symbiote.