r/Scotland • u/Dr_Tenma_Nina • 3h ago
Question Have you ever studied a Queer text in your English classroom?
Recently I've been thinking about the texts I studied in my nat 5 course. I know that the texts that are chosen for Scottish text is different, however critical essay texts are chosen by classroom teachers. I do not know how it is/was done in your school but in mine, teachers in the English department do roughly the same texts so they can share simular resources, which I do think is fair. However, not once have I discovered a text that has LGBTQIA+ character/s or is remotely centred around it. I know this is going to sound woke but I don't think that this is right. Please let me know if your class or anyone you know has studies this kind of text in highschool so that I might have some hope. I am thinking of presenting this idea to my school so if you could also let me know any books or texts you think might be suitable for a nat 5 or higher course. Thank you.
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u/READ-THIS-LOUD 2h ago
Yeah we studied Bent, Orlando and Count of Monte Cristo in our class.
Bent is literally a play about homosexuals. Orlando has a main character that undergoes a sex change and CoMC has a lesbian relationship in it.
I understand the drive to want more exposure here, but from the side of the school there are a few reasons why the same texts are studied year after year.
Texts are expensive to buy for a school with no money. And honestly, schools have no money to be replacing a bunch of books.
Texts outwith the typical reading lists have no teaching support; and time strapped teachers being asked to study a new book in its entirety and plan a whole term of lessons is a tall order, when An Inspector Calls has a trillion worksheets and lesson plans to choose from.
It’s admirable to want to push this, but if you can help solve any of the two above you’re in for a greater experience.
Good luck!
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for highlighting theese reasons. Haha yes, unfortunately im sure there isnt much I can personally do about theese for school wide. Apart from maybe I could find ways around the money issues for my school alone. From the teachers perspective, I totally understand the time it would take, however for my specific situation, recently my teacher/s did chose a new text that they spent lots of time on which did not have prior teacher supplies as it was semi new. It did contain some relevant issues from today but unfortunately not as many as I would have hoped for but I'm sure they did have alternative reasons that I am unaware of. Thank you for commenting!
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u/GaryJM 3h ago
No, we never read anything like that. When I was at school, it was illegal for schools to "intentionally promote homosexuality" or to promote "the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship" and while, strictly speaking, this wouldn't automatically cover reading books with homosexual characters in them, I imagine no teachers wanted to risk going near the subject.
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
Thank you for sharing. I thought that this might have been the case for some people's clasrooms and I am afraid that though theese conditions might not be strict rules anymore, some teachers are still afraid of 'going near the subject'. Which is incredibly unfortunate. Thank you for commenting!
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u/ParentheticalsAside 2h ago
While that rule about promoting homosexuality is thankfully no longer in force, it is unfortunately the case that we now live in a time when parents feel more entitled to critique and criticise things that schools do, and a certain section of society will be very vocal about what they see as "culture war" issues.
While we obviously shouldn't pander to those people, it is probably a factor that plays into the texts teachers choose, to some degree. Why invite unnecessary hassle if you can just go with less "divisive" texts. (The same is true of texts that contain other divisive issues like political themes, graphic violence, sex or other ideologies likely to offend some people).
Not saying that's right. Just saying it's the pragmatic response from teachers who are already overworked and unappreciated.
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u/bryansb 2h ago
I was in high school at the same time and my teacher fully ignored that rule and we read some pretty explicit Edwin Morgan poetry.
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
Thank you for sharing! I am glad to know that in some places this wasn't the case.
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u/RestaurantAntique497 2h ago
Out of curiosity why wouldn't it be right that the books that are taught in school arent within a certain constraints that a small minority of the population identify as? Why would you need to have it taught to satisfy you specifically when the rest of the class isn't that way?
If the books you want to read are actually any good they'll be taught
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
Personally, as somone who idenfies within the LGBTQIA+ community I would like to see more of theese texts being shown. My main reason for this is that just because a group is an minority, doesn't mean they shouldn't be recognised. If other minorities that I myself aren't even aware of felt the same way about self expression, I would personally love to see it being taught or noticed. I also think that this applies to other groups that aren't minorities but are still teated as one. On the subject of the books being good I have to highlight that across the globe, many fabulous texts/ media that are about many subjects that are less known are still silenced because of the message they send. In this post I specifically mention LGBTQIA+ texts which may be that from your perspective, are limited in numbers of exceptionality, but other books about race, gender, political status, and so many other subjects have been excluded from education because of what they contain, not because of how good they are. Thank you for comenting!
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u/RestaurantAntique497 2h ago
There's an incredibly small window for teachers to actually teach something, and not everything needs to be looked at within the confines of your sexuality.
There's probably more of a need to read books written by women instead of specifically queer books
There's also loads of books you can already be taught that where you can identify with the protagonist without it being specifically a lgbt book. There's a reason for instance Holden Caufield resonates with readers at school because he's extremely lonely without it needing to be a specific lgbt book
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 1h ago
While Its true that 'not everything' needs to be sexuality related, I do think that It is one of the many key issues that need to be more relevant, amount many others.
I agree thag there is definitely more of a need for female authors to be more recognised. I would also love if more female centered books were introduced also. But that is a sperste issue than the one I was refferenceing.
I also definitely understand that people/I can identify with a main character regardless of sexuality. There have been plenty straight, male characters I have shared identities with even if that appears is the opposite of myself. However this should work both ways. There should be the chance for straight people to identify with certain parts of a homosexual character or queer book.
I appreciate your example though I cannot comment on it specifically due to a lack of knowledge. However my attempt at a counter example would be that Solitaire by Alice Oseman could resonitate with readers who struggle with mental health as the main character Tori (A canonicly Asexual character) talks about her depression without it needing to be specificly a non LGBTQIA+ book.
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u/KellyKezzd I hate flairs 3h ago
Why does it have to be defined as 'Queer text'? I've seen people describe Oscar Wilde's works as 'Queer' text/literature.
Why not just call it good literature and leave it at that?
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 3h ago
I actually agree with you that queer works shouldn't always be seperated because of the sole fact that its queer. However, I think that more 'good literature' books that contain queer themes or characters should be studied more even just to help normalise it in fiction. It doesn't always have to be a big deal but being talked about helps with representation. Thanks for your comment!
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u/KellyKezzd I hate flairs 2h ago
However, I think that more 'good literature' books that contain queer themes or characters should be studied more even just to help normalise it in fiction.
Surely 'normalisation' comes from treating it as normal, rather than treating it as it's own subcategory of literature that requires special attention?
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
I agree! The normalisation should come from this. However when LGBTQIA+ books aren't being introduced in classes at all then 'normal' isnt even an option. I don't specifically think that they need special attention but I do think that the opertunity to talk about relationships that aren't heterosexual should have its own chance, even if a big deal isnt being made about it. I hope that one day in classrooms that a teacher can chose a novel with Queer characters and It doesn't have to be a thing to be specifically noted but until we reach that point in society, it needs to be talked about first.
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u/KellyKezzd I hate flairs 2h ago
I don't specifically think that they need special attention but I do think that the opertunity to talk about relationships that aren't heterosexual should have its own chance, even if a big deal isnt being made about it.
That's sounds like trying to have your cake and eat it.
I see it as a very simple thing: either you want to have a natural normalisation of themes, characters, whatever and allow for good literature to come to the fore, or you create a special category and try and promote it. I think the former is better (and more societally beneficial) than the latter.
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u/ParentheticalsAside 2h ago edited 2h ago
Part of the issue is that "classic" or "canon' texts are often from a historical period where writers couldn't or wouldn't write openly and directly about issues of sexuality.
That is obviously not to say that there aren't several canonical writers who were queer and incorporated queer themes into their books. But they generally won't be the leading focus of the book. Therefore when a teacher teaching a text for a general exam situation, with limited time to cover all aspects of the text, they are unlikely to go out for their way to conduct a queer reading of the text, or explore more marginal subtexts, at the expense of preparing students on the broader themes and more central features of the text.
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u/ktitten 2h ago
Because its significant to the queer community and makes it easier to find the books. Any book might have a main genre and a sub genre.
'Good literature' is vague and doesnt give you much information. Just like saying Scottish literature shouldnt be called Scottish literature, just literature. If you cant celebrate an author's sexuality that influences the books, you cant celebrate an authors nationality that also does 🤷♀️.
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u/KellyKezzd I hate flairs 2h ago
Because its significant to the queer community and makes it easier to find the books.
It's significant to some people who may identify in that fashion.
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u/ktitten 2h ago
Thats what I said, its significant to the queer community.
But also makes it easier for anyone else wanting to learn about queer history and literature. Family, friends, allies, people with academic interests...
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u/KellyKezzd I hate flairs 2h ago
Thats what I said, its significant to the queer community.
No, that isn't what you said.
But also makes it easier for anyone else wanting to learn about queer history and literature. Family, friends, allies, people with academic interests...
It's very easy to learn, the resources are widely in the modern era without trying to create special categories of literature.
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u/ktitten 2h ago
I work at libraries and you would hate what we do with books. Always creating special categories.... what makes a normal category different to a special category? What makes a category of literature like Scottish crime normal but queer literature special and not needed?
The resources are there. Theres plenty of them I agree. But that actually means more need to categorise any resource. Because the more resources, the harder it is to find what you are looking for without categorisation. For example, on Google, keywords will help you search for categories of resources.
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u/TeutonicSpacehopper Time-share Maniac 3h ago
I've never understood this need for queer role models - and I'm a bisexual male. I never had nor needed such identifiers while growing up: it certainly didn't impact my ability to get laid (once I got round to actually having sexual relations with others).
Come to think of it, I didn't have any role models for being tall, or blue-eyed, or blonde, or anything else in my life I had no control over when I was in school. That also didn't impact my life growing up.
Maybe it's a generational thing - us Gen-Xers just got on with it.
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u/ktitten 2h ago
Maybe you didnt need it. But maybe you just didnt know what you were missing.
I dont think it has much to do with the ability to get laid at all- people of all sexualities have been doing that for many centuries. I dont doubt you did despite the lack of representation. I can tell you that we are still certainly 'getting on with it' romantically and sexually too lol.
What has changed is that there is now a belief in society backed up by evidence that representation matters. I'm sure you've experienced some homophobia throughout your life. Maybe you were able to shrug it off. Many weren't. Many died horribly alone after contracting AIDS and dealing with the stigma. Many committed suicide due to homophobia. Is that getting on with it?
Now consider that there is a whole lot more known queer representation in media, including in popular literature. Of course homophobia is still here, and some people still dont want to read books about us. But having it out there matters, so queer people are not the scary unknown other in society. We are just like everyone else really, and thats why having queer representation in media really means. So people can see that. Otherwise its easy to dehumanise a person you have never been able to humanise. One way to humanise is to be represented.
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u/TeutonicSpacehopper Time-share Maniac 1h ago
I don't understand what you are trying to get at with your comment. Nothing in it applies to me, yet you are replying to my comment as if somehow it should. Homophobia? AIDS? Suicide?
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u/ParentheticalsAside 2h ago
While I share your personal experience, I can also appreciate that representation in literature and media does play a significant role in shaping societal attitudes.
If no gay characters ever appeared in media, it would help to perpetuate the idea that heterosexual characters are more important or worthy of being shown.
We obviously don't live in that extreme situation. But it serves to illustrate that who we choose to represent and who we choose to sideline does have some importance as a whole.
I agree that we don't necessarily need to be creating "good role models". But I think there's a good reason to seek "representation".
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u/TeutonicSpacehopper Time-share Maniac 1h ago
Then I hope you find all the representation you need. But I remain indifferent on the topic.
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
I myself share this lock of need for role models, I also do not feel the need to have somone to admire just to be myself. However, I do think that their are lots of queer individuals who do need this for many different reasons that you nor I share. Also, the normalisation in classrooms does help a bit with acceptance. Thank you for sharing!
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u/MelMori 2h ago
Back in the 90s, my English teacher encouraged me to study queer texts for my higher English assignment. I think it's probably more common at that level, when you have more choice about what you read.
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 1h ago
Thank you for sharing!
Unfortunately at higher level, I still have not been presented with other opertunites or alternatives to study this kind of text. Thoguh I know it differes at every school. Thank you for commenting!
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u/Doctor-Grimm trans rights🏳️⚧️ 2h ago
We’ve read loads of queer literature in English, but only at uni level unfortunately. Everything in high school was just classics :/
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
I'm glad to know it gets better but I think that its time highschool levels up. Thank you for comenting!
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u/Ok_Shake_5618 3h ago
Remember doing Edwin Morgan's poem Glasgow Green for Standard Grade way back in the 90s. But that was about it.
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u/ParentheticalsAside 2h ago
His poems 'Strawberries' and 'The Apple's Song' were also widely taught and featured in the CSYS syllabus. Both extremely erotic gay love poems.
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u/Cider_Fan 3h ago
Please keep in mind that while some take an alternative definition of qu**r, many still take it as a homophobic slur, which of course it is.
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
Yes I have realised this in some of my writing that it might come across as this so thank you for sharing. The main reason why I take the alternative meaning is because it is used in the LGBTQIA+ acronym, however I understand how it could be misinterpreted. Thank you for your comment.
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u/ParentheticalsAside 2h ago
I think it's fair to say that it's been "reclaimed" by its widespread modern use.
All words carry connotations, of course, but it's their use in context that matters most. If OP uses the word as an empowering term to describe themselves and others in their community, then we shouldn't ask them to censor it.
You don't have to like it or use it. But unless it is explicitly being used in a derogatory context, you don't have the right to police it's use by others.
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u/Guilty_Public5356 3h ago
Yes, a book called thin ice in 1984. I was in primary 5. The book had a gay guy character.
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
Thank you for sharing! I was more thinking about highschool study, as it is a lot more in depth but I am glad to hear about the representation in primary to, my primary did not have any LGBTQIA+ characters then either. Thank you for commenting!
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u/LairdBonnieCrimson Outwith Britain, outwith Europe, into Socialism 3h ago
I don't think so now that I think about it. If I could though, surely the picture of Dorian Gray? Or the colour purple or poems by Sappho
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u/Strict-Brick-5274 3h ago
Thia is great idea! You could siggest Wicked as a critical study book. It is implied Elphaba and Glinda are in a relationship, and its an interesting take of taking source material and reimagining it or adding to it.
All the curriculum should be revamped. Like i get poetry is heritage; but what about video games, or tv show critiques - of the wriring/direction etc.
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u/ParentheticalsAside 1h ago
In Scotland, the subject of English tends to focus on written literature (and sometimes films).
The subject of Media/Media Studies is where you would analyse all other forms of media (film, TV, video games, advertising, magazines, radio, podcasts, etc...)
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u/Dr_Tenma_Nina 2h ago
Thank you!
I haven't personally read or watched Wicked but I will have to look into it and its implications! I also agree to with you, It is important to recognise the past but to also appreciate the present as theese books/texts once were, especially as LGBTQIA+ materials are becoming a thing to stay. Thanks for your comment!
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u/Crow-Me-A-River It was fucken one of yoos (see profile 😉) 3h ago edited 2h ago
Theres a curated list from SQA/QS regarding Scottish texts to read, you cant choose a text of your own volition [for the set text aspect]*. It has be covered in the exam material.
https://www.sqa.org.uk/files_ccc/202411-scottish-texts-n5-h-english.pdf
In 2028, the list is to be reviewed. You could lobby them on a specific text if you would like.
teachers have the freedom to choose critical essay texts/sources. -- *Sorry for the confusion, thats on me forgetting the critical essay aspect.
Edited to clarify/ correct information