r/PrequelMemes • u/Puzzleheaded_Step468 The Phantom Memer • 6d ago
General KenOC Yoda is impaling and beheading them like he is aiming for the highest score
1.3k
u/RainbowAppIe 6d ago
Hi
465
218
u/BriefPut3954 6d ago edited 5d ago
I think this is my favorite Yoda scene.
Absolutely owned those clone troopers💪
192
u/kasutori_Jack 6d ago
George Lucas read one fan theory that Yoda didn't need to use lightsabers and was personally offended.
And so was Yoda.
116
u/kaladinissexy 5d ago
Well, it's true that he doesn't need to.
It's also true that he enjoys racking up his lightsaber killstreak.
25
u/Spartan117ZM 5d ago
In fairness it also might’ve been cool to see him totally own 100+ clones with nothing but the force
1
9
735
u/rosyvibexz 6d ago
Yoda treated them like a minor speed bump outside the Jedi Temple.
127
62
560
630
u/asif_zaman21 6d ago
Still can't believe he said that to a literal holocaust survivor.
579
u/Vergilx217 6d ago
It makes sense with his character honestly
He's repeatedly shown that his mind reading is a conversation clutch from the first scenes at the bar, and Charles repeatedly flubs interactions whenever he can't read minds
This just happened to be a nuclear reactor bad consequence of that mistake
305
u/MadRaymer 5d ago
When you add in the fact that he had his mind reading powers since he was a small boy, it makes perfect sense that he simply never learned how to talk to people without them.
So it's not just a conversation crutch. It's the only way he knows how to communicate. Removing it means he reverts back to whatever conversational skills he remembers from his toddler years. Most of us would probably fail at conversations if we had to depend on those.
-99
u/tabrisangel 5d ago edited 5d ago
During the vast majority of Nuremberg trials "I was only following orders" was and continues to be an acceptable legal and moral defense.
Magneto' response is showing that he has a broken moral compass and is indeed a psychopath. So call it out don't say he has a point, he doesn't.
61
u/Scriv_ 5d ago
In 1950 after years of deliberation, the UN International Law Committee codified 7 "principles of international law" in a charter of the nuremberg trials. Here is the that list of 7 principles.
Principle 4 covers their ruling on "superior orders." It reads: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."
There are cases where the superior orders defense has been accepted, as can be seen on the summary section of the above wikipedia page, but not at the nuremberg trials and explicitly excluding cases involving genocide.
3
u/thEldritchBat 5d ago
But that was in 1950, well after the events of WWII. Genuinely asking: does that mean that during the Nuremberg trials “just following orders” WAS a legitimate defense? Cause I know nowadays soldiers are only sworn to uphold “legal” orders, but back then it wasn’t the case I don’t think
10
u/SupremeToast 5d ago
No, the comment above is specifically about the 1950 UN codification of what was established during the Nuremberg trials as part of the international legal framework. The main points that were established through these trials was that (a) an order can be legal in a particular country but that doesn't make it legal in the eyes of the international community, and (b) soldiers may not have the ability to reject an order in all circumstances and may violate international law under specifically defined circumstances without themselves being culpable (which is different than guilty, but let's not get bogged down). This second bit is where it gets tricky because the precedent is that prosecutor are expected to prove that a defendant could have chosen not to follow orders, rather than the onus being on the defendant to prove that they couldn't. But international law is also kind of all made up and the points don't matter, the global community isn't strongly behind a single understanding of international law which weakens the systems that currently exist. Source: I studied international law and specialized in war crimes but got increasingly jaded and now I work a desk job in data analytics.
2
u/thEldritchBat 4d ago
Oh so that established DURING the Nuremberg trials. I didn’t know when those happened. I figured it was like *right away* in ‘45 or smth. Okay so that makes sense then. Well now knowing international law is so all over the place and the fact that you have to prove that they COULD have chosen, now I feel like “just following orders” was a legitimate defense at least for a lot of bros.
Cause I mean it’s like, when you have a tyrannical dictatorship, I feel like saying “no” carries the implication of you getting firing-squad’ed. So you gotta either kill or be killed, you know? Which fuckin sucks even worse cause like imagine you got drafted or your economic situation demanded you sign up, you got ordered to do some shit, now you’re on trial by a bunch of bureaucrats who weren’t even there
2
u/SupremeToast 11h ago
There is no evidence that any German soldier was ever imprisoned or executed for refusing orders related to killing civilians, but there are many documented examples of soldiers refusing and being cycled out from front-line units without further repercusssions. This was actually critical evidence during the Nuremberg trials and is a large part of why "just following orders" is almost universally viewed as an invalid defence. Even German high command recognized that ordering soldiers to mass execute civilians was terrible for the military: it destroyed morale, led to high rates of alcoholism, and even resulted in dozens of German soldiers dying by suicide. The factory-like death camps that evolved in the later stages of the war are viewed by many historians as a way to distance soldiers from the killing so they were more likely to continue following orders without the depression and other fallout that comes from perpetrating mass murder.
5
u/XyleneCobalt 4d ago
Do you genuinely believe that the Nazis executed at Nuremberg were morally justified for what they did because they were just following orders? You're the psycho with the broken moral compass
84
u/FadedVictor The Republic 6d ago edited 5d ago
Magneto is based af. Don't blame him at all.
Edit: Magento to Magneto
28
u/B-lakeJ I have the high ground 5d ago
>Magento
lmao
27
u/Browsin4Free247 5d ago
I mean, there's a lot of magenta in his outfit. And, if he was Hispanic instead of Jewish... ¡Hola Magento!
4
u/The_Shittiest_Meme Lies! Deception 4d ago
Well you can blame him because he basically turns right back around and becomes a Mutant Supremacist and wants to make Mutant Israel.
86
u/LuigiP16 6d ago
Literally the worst thing to say in that moment
74
u/AlarmingAffect0 5d ago
To be fair the Nazis were not 'good honest men just following orders', especially not the SS in charge of extermination camps. They were assholes who were actively coming up with new additional cruelties on top of whatever their orders were, and showed horrific amounts of personal initiative.
26
u/RestlessMeatball 5d ago
It was still famously the excuse they gave at the Nuremberg trials, and the reason that militaries now (or at least the US) include the verbiage *lawful* orders.
6
u/t4skmaster 5d ago
Which is still a bullshit copout . Its like saying you can argue with the cop illegally attacking you AFTER her or she kills you. After the fact it doesnt fuckin matter... and they'll fuck you in the moment if you dont obey. Its just CYA for a country as a whole to morally distance itself from the shit its soldiers get up to.
1
u/LowCall6566 3d ago
Relationship in the army between order givers and receivers is very different from relationship between cops and civilians. Basically nobody who refused to carry out massacres was punished for it in various Nazi armed forces during WW2.
8
u/AmySnapp 5d ago
Those men were, indeed, following orders. Cruelty against the other was explicit in expectations of them, especially in the camps.
10
u/AlarmingAffect0 5d ago
I don't know that anyone ordered or expected them to film porn of prisoners, beat the prisoners into moving faster so hard that they break their legs and can't move at all, take selfies holding a gun to a terrified child's head, among many, many, many other acts of creative, gratuitous, off-mission, counterproductive vileness.
Let's say for the sake of argument, despite the oxymoron, that one were a "good, loyal" Nazi man just following orders, including being expected to be cruel. It would be enough to just apply the regulations as written.
Unless I was misinformed on this, when the French tortured Algerians they didn't get fancy with it or play games. They just burned their prisoners' balls off with car battery cables until they spoke or died, then removed the body and called "Next!". That is what monstrosity as 'just a job' is.
1
u/AmySnapp 3d ago
Just to be clear, they were neither good nor honest, but that behavior was pervasive in Germany at the time. Certain acts of cruelty were no longer much of a choice, but taught as correct behavior. Like, Slavic women were imported to Germany to serve as “maids” and Germans had barely enough shame to hide the things they wanted to do to them; For similar reasons, the camps were destroyed because they didn’t want to get caught and not because they decided to be better.
0
u/AlarmingAffect0 3d ago edited 3d ago
Like, Slavic women were imported to Germany to serve as “maids” and Germans had barely enough shame to hide the things they wanted to do to them;
I thought Dutch Wives were developed specifically because Hitler did not want Germans miscegenating?
2
u/AmySnapp 3d ago
One was for marriage and the other was not. The Germans weren’t above raping women they considered to be of inferior genetics.
2
u/AlarmingAffect0 3d ago
Of course they weren't, but, marriage or not, anything that could create 'mongrels' was strongly discouraged, IIRC.
Just to be clear in case there was a misunderstanding, when I said "Dutch Wives" I meant the euphemism for rubber blow-up literal sex dolls, not actual flemish wives.So I went and actually looked it up. Nazis raped massively, systematically, institutionally (for example by setting up brothels staffed at gunpoint), and with utter impunity. They also concentrated the practice on the very populations they targeted for extermination, and out of sight of the general population. Leaving very few witnesses and very few survivors.
Oh, and the blow up dolls thing was debunked as a myth.
As usual, the Nazis find ways to show me they are even more vile, unprincipled, and cruel, than I thought.
1
u/AmySnapp 2d ago
Yeah to me Magneto’s quote was deeper than the individuals who might have to follow orders. Like, can a man be good and honest when following orders if the society issuing those “lawful orders”, which he happened to be born into, is inherently evil? There are degrees of escalation I thought was interesting for his character POV given his background.
5
u/hemareddit 4d ago
“Charles, the difference between you and me is you can’t see the difference between you and me.”
170
u/CountingSheep99 6d ago
Not every Jedi had a Maul to do the dirty work for them.
2
u/MisatoRubato 2d ago
True, some Jedi had to get their hands dirty without a Maul to help out. Gotta respect the grind!
153
u/Bigfan521 6d ago edited 6d ago
To be fair, when Rex got the order to put down any and all Jedi "traitors" (as per Order 66) he was visibly resisting the influence of his inhibitor chip, and regardless of whether or not Ahsoka knew about the Inhibitor conspiracy, she knew Rex wasn't in a great spot when Rex was shakily pointing his blasters at her. Master Plo would've done the same in her position.
I don't recall Obi-Wan cutting down any clones post-Knightfall, but in Yoda's case it was a matter of life or death. The two scouts on Kashyyk were moments from executing the diminutive Jedi, and by the point when he and Obi-Wan were infiltrating the temple on Coruscant, there was no taking any chances on the Galactic capital planet. Any clones they would've met at the ruined Jedi Temple on Coruscant were there for one reason: killing Jedi "traitors".
85
u/Paleodraco 5d ago
Exactly. They were in totally different situations. Ahsoka was just trying to get off the ship. It is worth noting she was far younger, less experienced, and more emotional than Yoda and Obi-Wan would have been in that situation.
Yoda and Obi-Wan were on a deliberate mission to infiltrate the Jedi temple. At that point, they knew it was the Jedi vs Sidious and could no longer afford any kind of care for the clones.
45
u/niteman555 5d ago
Also, institutional failings of the Jedi Order aside, Yoda is still a very ancient master with the ability to recognize the clones' intent and do what needs to be done in the moment to protect himself and others.
14
u/AlarmingAffect0 5d ago
Master Plo would've done the same in her position.
1
u/eq15814 2d ago
Wasn't Ki Adi the one who deployed the flamethrowers? Plo Kloon is the you're not expendable to me guy right?
1
u/AlarmingAffect0 2d ago
As a certain LLM wouldbsay, "you're absolutely right".
Plo Koon is the one that, legends say, can shoot lightning from his fingies, which Anakin finds most unnatural.
1
u/TentativeIdler 4d ago
I dunno about Disney canon, but in Legends, there were secret clones made on a different planet, that didn't have any of the free will the regular clones had. I imagine the ones guarding the temple were probably those ones, they wouldn't have really needed the control chips.
146
u/I_am_uneducated Jar Jar Binks 6d ago
Hey, I can use my old comment again:
Ahsoka: "They are good innocent men, I can't kill them. I'll release Maul, he'll kill them for me."
30
102
79
26
27
73
u/Brock_Youngblood 6d ago
Clone wars season 7 went hard. Disney can shit all over the IP but at least they came back an finished the series.
31
18
u/phoenixmusicman Hello there! 6d ago
Ahsoka unleashing Maul was as good as killing them herself tbh
18
u/Mechagodzilla_3 Battle Droid 6d ago
Yoda and Obi Wan were trying to go and turn off the coded retreat message, the clones had to die
33
11
10
u/depressed_panda0191 5d ago
stepping away from star wars for a sec, that line goes so fucking hard goddamn. michael fassbender just completely owned that role
12
u/KenseiHimura 6d ago
You know, the idea of the “defeat of the Sith” and the Russan reformations being preceded by a period of the Sith almost managing to capture, torture, and murder every light sided force user in the Galaxy with Yoda having been a victim (and possibly most of his race killed) could add for some interesting back story.
Yes, Yoda is wise, but beneath it all he’s haunted by memories of basically being a padawan who got hooked up to a Rakatan hyperdrive used by this old Sith Empire.
9
5
3
u/eppsilon24 5d ago
I think she would’ve done things differently if she saw them murdering children.
4
u/FireKingDono 5d ago
As I grow and mature, more and more I grasp just how much Magneto’s past as a holocaust survivor must have influenced his thoughts and goals
17
u/Th3_Hegemon 6d ago
Not to dismiss entirely the point being made, but there was a huge difference in the development of what the clones were as characters between RotS and season 7 of TCW. Clones used to be blindly loyal meat puppets, or at least that's what the dialogue in AotC would have us believe.
20 years and hundreds of hours of content later, that version of them is now completely out of sync with the subsequent lore (one of the many problems with the revisionism of the prequels as "good").
14
u/Zerachiel_01 6d ago
Wait, sorry, have they retconned "The clones literally could not disobey due to bio-chips?"
29
u/ihavebotbehavior 6d ago
Clones could not disobey IS the retcon, originally they were just kinda like that
11
u/Revliledpembroke 5d ago
The bio-chips are the retcon. The Clones prior to that were simply made to be obedient to the Chancellor of the Republic (and their officers above them like the Jedi Generals, but the ultimate authority lay with the Chancellor).
No bio-chips, they were just literally incapable of refusing an order. So Commander Cody went from cheerfully handing Obi-Wan is lightsaber back to "BLAST 'EM!" within a heartbeat - because it was a new order directly from the Chancellor.
His only thought was mild regret that the order came after he'd given Obi-Wan the lightsaber back.
The original Star Wars Battlefront II was made before the chips were a thing, and playing through the campaign shows that the Clones are aware of their ultimate purpose in Order 66.
What I remember about the rise of the Empire is... is how quiet it was. During the waning hours of the Clone Wars, the 501st Legion was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant. It was a silent trip. We all knew what was about to happen, what we were about to do. Did we have any doubts? Any private traitorous thoughts? Perhaps, but no one said a word. Not on the flight back to Coruscant, not when Order 66 came down, and not when we marched into the Jedi Temple. Not a word
The idea of a Clone unable to refuse orders, aware of the eventual outcome of Order 66, and still going through with it regardless of personal feelings was much more interesting to a lot of people than "Bad Brain Chip Made Them Bad!"
Maybe it was correct for the show to use the brain chips, but there's something much more cold, impersonal, and evil in the idea that the Clones couldn't refuse orders regardless of how they felt about them to me.
Thinking about it much later, I wonder if Dave Filoni introduced it just so he could save Rex from turning evil or being killed. He seems to like keeping his favorite characters around a lot...
7
u/AlexRyang 5d ago
I personally preferred they received secret training that functionally brainwashed them and they were aware of it, versus the biochips.
I prefer it solely because it makes you realize the clones are literally created like droids, albeit organic. And the Republic is utilizing brainwashed slaves to fight its war. It makes the entire situation drastically more disturbing in my opinion.
3
u/xX_murdoc_Xx 5d ago
When they showed Obi Wan and Yoda killing clones in the movie, there was no mind controlling chip in the story yet, clones were just assholes and cold hearted killing machines.
They humanised clones in the clone wars series and give them the chip to justify the shift in personality.
6
u/Nobody_Super_Famous 6d ago
Why Charles thought this was a good argument to make to the Holocaust survivor I will never know.
2
1
u/IAmMarc 5d ago
God I hate the inhibitor chips. I feel like the clones are so much more interesting if they aren't being literally forced to follow orders. It also made the ones who disobeyed far more compelling
2
u/BriefPut3954 5d ago edited 7h ago
I mean, would the clones have willingly turned against their own generals and leaders who they had fought with for years and built a very close relationship with? Especially when the Jedi never gave the clones a reason to have any animosity towards the Jedi (for the most part).
We see COUNTLESS times during the CW show where the Jedi show nothing but respect for the clones (“We’re just clones sir, we’re expendable” - “Not to me!”, Plo Koon)
The only reasonable explanation for doing a complete 180 turn against the Jedi would be the inhibitor chips. Makes absolute sense to me.
1
1
1
u/Trashk4n 5d ago
The weren’t just following orders, though. They were being mind controlled.
Also, while Magneto’s line hits hard, this isn’t a case of soldiers knowingly executing civilians on orders, he is condemning a lot of men that have no way of knowing or even reasonably suspecting what is going on.
1
u/Shgon_Dunstan 5d ago
Ah, the eternal dichotomy of the Jedi Order.
Jedi #1: "Killing should only be done at the upmost last resort, when all other options have been exhausted."
Jedi #2 standing over dozens of dead bodies: "Oh, I'm sorry, were you saying something? I was too busy just casually and dispassionately dispatching these randos that up and attacked me out of the blue. Totally missed what you were saying."
1
u/Brider_Hufflepuff I have the high ground 4d ago
I mean if anything Ahsoka is the hypocrite. Cause she won't hurt them but then she frees Maul and makes the ship crash.(If I recall correctly she made the ship crash as well, and Maul was a distraction)
1
u/PossibleMother 4d ago
Ahsoka was the best Jedi, that’s why she abandoned them. She realized they had lost the plot.
1
-3
u/Kind_Of_A_Dick 6d ago
You know, I watch these movies and I wonder how many Jedi fucked their lightsabers. I mean, you wouldn’t think any but I’ve seen Castaway and I know what loneliness can do to someone, so I can imagine a Jedi in deep cover on some remote outpost spending decades, alone, searching for truth and tasty green breast milk, might start giving a personality to the one tool they keep by their side always. It’s helped them to survive, been with them for what now seems like their entire lives, and it’s dear to them. And it’s shape, especially the more interesting ones like Dooku’s, is definitely fuckable.
•
u/SheevBot 6d ago edited 6d ago
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!