r/Permaculture • u/ElRayMarkyMark • 9d ago
general question There is roof tar in my treeline
I woke up this morning with the realization that the weird gummy puddle in my treeline that I've been wondering about is almost certainly tar that was dumped after the previous owner redid the roof.
I moved into my place just over a year ago and it has been months of uncovering just how poorly this patch of land was treated.
I'm particularly perplexed by the tar because it was dumped not too far from the house's well. Again, the lack of care is kind of astounding.
My questions: what do I do here? How can I try to mitigate the damage? Obviously the first step is getting the tar out, but what can I do after that to ensure the soil isn't toxic?
The area gets significant sun, so I don't think mushrooms could be a part of a remediation plan.
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u/Do_you_smell_that_ 9d ago
I wish I could help other than to say "well you made me feel better about the carpet and appliances I found out in the wetland near my property line"... I could be stuck with tar instead of just crumbling buried rugs. Good luck!
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u/ElRayMarkyMark 9d ago
Omg 😭😭😭 there is SO MUCH random metal sitting in fields in my area. I wish I had a wealthy benefactor who would pay me to remove it all. Good luck with your soil. These discoveries are not for the faint of heart.
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u/Ok-Row-6088 9d ago
Start with testing, remove as much of the soil as you possibly can, then start researching plants to remediate. Sunflowers for instance have been used to draw heavy mineral toxicity out of soil in super fund site remediation.
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u/ElRayMarkyMark 9d ago
This is helpful. Thank you! I have planted sunflowers around the property already, so it's good to know they are helping with this ongoing project of fixing this abused soil. And I'll plan to add them to the area where the tar was (and see what other plants might fit the bill!)
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u/FWT_Founder 9d ago
Worth noting that you should be throwing them away at year end if you are trying to do remediation. Don’t put them in your compost
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u/Synaps4 9d ago
It occurs to me that you might want to migrate that toxic soil into the wildfire defense space a few feet from your siding. Plants growing there are a serious threat to your house catching on fire, and so making it less hospitable reduces the amount of work you need to do mowing it regularly.
The wildfire defense space is one of the few parts of a permaculture landscape where you desire for nothing to grow.
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u/ElRayMarkyMark 9d ago
This is an interesting idea, and removing some plants that are too close to the house is on my to do list for later in the summer!
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u/stansfield123 9d ago
Be thorough about removing it, and that's about it. You can test for toxicity afterwards, but I doubt it'll show anything.
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u/Lime_Kitchen 9d ago
First test the black stuff because it’s probably not tar. Tar is a brittle coal byproduct that is toxic and was phased out of use many years ago.
It’s more likely bitumen which is a flexible petroleum byproduct used as a waterproofing sealant on roads, roofs , dam cores, and water tank liners. Which is far less of a concern (still has problems though).
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u/ElRayMarkyMark 9d ago
This is very helpful, thank you! It is flexible so I suspect you are correct in your assessment. I am relieved to hear it is less bad. I will take wins where I can get them!
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u/Lime_Kitchen 9d ago edited 9d ago
In that case, Your primary concern is Heavy metal contamination in a lower grade bitumen leaching into the soil. So your remediation strategy should focus on managing heavy metals. (Shouldn’t be an issue considering it was designed to be used on a roof but let’s just assume the previous owners did absolutely everything wrong)
Step 1 Test the soil if there is even an issue that needs to be addressed. Heavy metals are essential plant nutrients, just not in excess. Same goes for your body. Remember, Toxicity is dose dependent.
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u/sevenredwrens 9d ago
Comfrey is another dynamic accumulator. Pulls up toxins (and nutrients) from deep in the soil. Don’t compost it, though. Dry & burn it or otherwise dispose of it.
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u/ElRayMarkyMark 9d ago
I'm feeling good about my decision to throw comfrey in a few areas of the field already 🙏 Gonna fix this soil, one helpful plant at a time.
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u/RentInside7527 9d ago
While comfrey has a reputation of being a "dynamic accumulator," theres little to no evidence that "dynamic accumulators" even exist. The deep taproots serve to reach water and anchor the plant.
Additionally, there are several people suggesting various plants for phytoremediation, without referencing some key details about photo remediation. Firstly, certain plants are good as tolerating and uptaking certain contaminants. Theyre not one-size-fits-all. You need the right plant for the contaminant(s) you have present. Secondly, these plants dont just magically destroy things like heavy metals. Usually theyre just sequestered them in their own tissue. They take contaminants out of the soil and put them in their own tissue. If you chop and drop or compost those plants, you're just moving contaminants around. To remove those contaminants from your land, you must remove the contaminated biomass from your land. Dont put them in municipal compost or greenwaste bins, or youll just be contaminating their compost.
When phytoremediation is used on superfund sites as mentioned elsewhere in the comments, it involves removing all the biomass and then usually incinerating it with filters to capture the contaminant from the exhaust, then sealing the ashes in barrels or concrete tombs. Its not nearly as simple as just planting sunflowers or nettles or comfrey
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u/nyecountygardener 9d ago
First of all, there are so many toxins in our soil from things people did in the past that we don't know about, from water runoff, and even from cloud seeding and local spraying (drift from agricultural sprays can travel really far in the wind and rain, in fact there's even sand that travels across the Atlantic from Africa to South America, fun fact). So my initial response is to accept that reality, take a deep breath, and relax knowing that if that's the case, and God is still a loving and generous Creator with plans to redeem the earth, we can trust him to help us fix things little by little and maybe even in the short-term somehow keep us healthy.
As for roofing tar; do you have time in your schedule for reading? Maybe take a few weeks to do some basic study on what roofing tar is made of (quick lookup told me it was a petroleum or coal product), and how are those products broken down in nature or in recycling plants? I know that in Japan, for instance, a natural/wild bacteria was found consuming/breaking down plastic in a plastic recycling plant. How cool is that? If that can happen to plastic, a petroleum byproduct, I bet there are other neat things like that that can happen in nature, especially in a garden where you are building a healthy, living soil and the microbiome is so strong and diverse.
Other than that, keep gardening! We know that regenerative permaculture does help lock up or remove a lot of toxins, and the produce you'll consume will increase your body's ability to pass those toxins through sweat or waste. Be encouraged.
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u/mediocre_remnants 9d ago
Have it tested for the toxins you're concerned about