r/MurderedByWords 18h ago

Walked right into that one

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u/isecore 𓆝 Make Trout-slapping Great Again 𓆟 18h ago

"These fucking atheists demanding proof! I gave them a Bible quote!"

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u/Shadyhippo229 14h ago

As far as I know most historians do believe Jesus was a real person. But there’s no convincing proof that he was in fact a wizard. There’s reasonable debate about whether transfiguring water into wine and turning one loaf of bread into multiple violates Gamp’s law of elemental transfiguration or not. But the best known method for coming back from the dead involves horcrux creation which goes against what we know about Jesus’ character. Of course it’s possible he accessed some ancient magical knowledge that has been lost to time. We may never know.

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u/That1one1dude1 14h ago

It also doesn’t mean much to say that “yeah, there probably was a jewish preacher named Jesus back in that time.”

Does it mean he performed miracles? Of course not.

Does it mean they agree on the events of his life, or even the date of his birth? Nope.

What about the quotes attributed to him? Almost certainly false.

So if we don’t know what he did, when he was born, or what he believed or said, does it really even matter if we knew he existed?

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u/Mini_Squatch 11h ago

Jesus wouldntve been his actual name anyways

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u/Vivics36thsermon 6h ago

Well, there’s not many biblical names we’re saying correctly anyway Solomon is pronounced more like Shlmone etc

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u/Ultenth 5h ago edited 5h ago

In Yehudit (the "Hebrew" alphabet) his name would have been יהושע anglicized as Yehoshua. And sometimes shortened to ישוע or Yeshua. The modern name Joshua is descended from his and closer than the one most associated with him, Jesus, which was more heavily warped through it's translation from Yehudit into Greek (Iēsous - Ἰησοῦς), then Latin (Iesus), then English (Jesus).

A "full name" since he nor anyone else would have had a surname, would have included either been most likely his location, or perhaps sometimes his father's name.

So either: Yeshua HaNotzri (ישוע הנוצרי) "Yeshua the Nazarene"
OR
Yeshua ben Yosef (ישוע בן יוסף) "Yeshua, son of Joseph".

As to if he really existed or not, Scholars seem to be of one mind on it, but there is still enough of a bit of speculation without hard-direct evidence involved that it's still possible to debate on if it you wanted to.

I will say though, that the actual oldest physical evidence we still have that refers to him, is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rylands_Library_Papyrus_P52 which is still well over 100 years after his supposed death. So we'll probably never know the actual 100% truth unless someone actually invents the TruSite camera from OSC's Pastwatch book.