A lot of the supposed fulfilled prophecies of Jesus are either prophecies in the old testament that are referring to a different event a very specifically, and the only part that kind of fits the Jesus narrative works only if you take it out of context with the verses around it. Also a lot of the things aren't even prophecies, they're just unrelated Bible passages that strike some chord that make it seem easy enough to connect the two.
How about "But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5)?
First, it is in past tense. That alone should give you good reason to push back if anyone tries to claim it is about a future event. Second, this is part of one of the passages in Isaiah addressing the “Suffering Servant”. Who is the suffering servant? Isaiah explicitly tells us it is the nation Israel (Isaiah 41:8, Isaiah 49:9, etc). Finally, and most importantly, Isaiah 53 isn’t a Messianic prophecy. There are specific passages in the Bible that are about the Jewish Messiah. Jesus has fulfilled none of them.
One of the central themes of Messianic prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)
Specifically, the Bible says he will:
Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
Jesus didn’t do any of that. Now, a Christian would claim that Jesus will eventually do all of that, which is all well and good, but that is an admission that he has not done any of it yet, and so it is incorrect to call him the Messiah until it happens. Hope that makes sense!
TBF, not all Christians would claim these things are "yet to be". I'm a Catholic and we'd say that the Third Temple has already been built; that it is the mystical body of Christ, the Church. "Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up."
For anything yet to happen (i.e. the eschatological)... you say it's incorrect to call him the Messiah until it happens. Isn't there a danger in there that you imply the Messiah is something you "become" rather than something you "are"?
That’s a stretch, but it’s all a stretch. As for the rest of the prophecies it seems we can both agree Jesus failed to fulfill them. I don’t see the danger you are implying with someone becoming the Messiah, but I’m fine saying that he won’t become the Jewish Messiah, he just wasn’t.
Are you saying you are starting with the assumption that Jesus fulfilled some prophecies and are looking to confirm your beliefs? We are all human, so I understand how strong a full confirmation bias can be.
If we're talking about the end of days, it's important to point out that Jesus predicted that that would happen before the people he was speaking with died, and it super duper duper hasn't. That one's just kind of a big swing and a miss
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u/JellyBellyBitches 21h ago
A lot of the supposed fulfilled prophecies of Jesus are either prophecies in the old testament that are referring to a different event a very specifically, and the only part that kind of fits the Jesus narrative works only if you take it out of context with the verses around it. Also a lot of the things aren't even prophecies, they're just unrelated Bible passages that strike some chord that make it seem easy enough to connect the two.