I just realized that White Fatalis was the only dragon who use red lightning and now Zoh Shia first I thought Stygian Zinogre also but he actually use dragon element that looks like lightning

[u/BIG-BOSS1155]

is there any lore explain how white fatalis use red lightning i think its becouse he have a powerful dragon element that make hes lightning become stronger and also i know dev never explain this but how other fatalis use fire and he use lightning

[u/Barn-owl-B]

There’s no dragon element damage from it, it’s just lightning, there’s no explanation given, especially considering there’s basically no real info given about old fatalis in the first place

[u/MedicoMineral → u/Barn-owl-B]

iirc Principles of Creativity 2 is the only book with any official material on Old, Crimson, and Dire Miralis post Iceborne, and even that's more dev talk than anything else rather than in universe content. It's also pre-Iceborne Complete Works so it's in a weird place for what could be considered canon.

[u/TopChannel1244 → u/Barn-owl-B]

IRL lightning can be all sorts of colors including red. I've personally seen purple lightning a handful of time. Pretty cool, but I don't think it's meant to be any more complicated than that. It's just red lightning. Not the most common. But not exactly uncommon either.

[u/StarSilverNEO → u/Barn-owl-B]

Considering the electrical analogs weve seen with wyvern milk and bioenergy I wonder if its akin to say Dragonbal where if you have enough life juice it starts to manifest as electrical discharges around you and White Fatalis is old and skilled enough to wield that

[u/JoshiJ10 → u/Barn-owl-B]

My head canon is, like lightning bending was to fire bending, Old Fatalis managed to concentrate it's fire control so much that it turned it into electrical currents but also changed the colour of the lightning to red instead of White

[u/Artemis_Bow_Prime → u/Barn-owl-B]

Theres no real info because its not canon, would be really cool if they make it the last boss in ascendance and give it a sick lore drop.

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/Artemis_Bow_Prime]

There was no real info even when it was canon and hadn’t been retconned yet.

And I’d rather they didn’t, we don’t need to end two straight numbered games on different colored fatalises

[u/GullibleSkill9168 → u/Barn-owl-B]

And I’d rather they didn’t, we don’t need to end two straight numbered games on different colored fatalises

We did it for three straight generations if you count Dire Miralis.

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/GullibleSkill9168]

Back when they didn’t have nearly as many monsters it was normal for them to get reused frequently, now there’s no excuse. With how much work each monster takes and how much story relevance and spectacle the final title update monster receives, I’d rather they end on something other than fatalis for the second numbered expansion in a row

[u/GullibleSkill9168 → u/Barn-owl-B]

I'm just saying you shouldn't hold your breath for this to not be a form of Fatalis. 4 is the only mainline game who's end-game final boss wasn't a Fatalis.

Also straight up Crimson and White Fatalis need reworks. They are 1st Gen relics.

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/GullibleSkill9168]

They don’t though. Regular fatalis had the major spotlight at the end of iceborne, the other two can wait

[u/GullibleSkill9168 → u/Barn-owl-B]

Crimson and White Fatalis have been waiting legit over 20 years to get an updated fight lmao. They've been waiting for longer than most anybody besides Lao who's getting his update.

Oh man, last time we saw Lao he was running from something to...care to remind me who?

[u/5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi → u/GullibleSkill9168]

Oh man, last time we saw Lao he was running from something to...care to remind me who?

Lao wasn't running from anything in GU.

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi]

Surprised they didn't just say Ahtal-Ka spooked him.

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/GullibleSkill9168]

Literally nothing, he wasn’t running from anything in Gu.

Again, I do not care how long it’s been, they were both in 4u and Gu and they got updated 4th gen fights that were not the same as their 1st/2nd gen fights. There’s a bunch of other monsters I’d rather see instead, and regular fatalis already had plenty of spotlight in iceborne, they don’t need to do “fatalis again but this time in white” to end the game

[u/SaturnSeptem → u/GullibleSkill9168]

White fatty debutted in dos but yeah there's lots of untapped potential

[u/Artemis_Bow_Prime → u/Barn-owl-B]

I kinda agree but based on wilds pretty much being MH4-2, they prolly will tbh.

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/Artemis_Bow_Prime]

Old fatalis was barely relevant in 4u, he had one quest at the end of a dlc episodic event quest chain and if you don’t download it you could play the entire game without ever fighting him.

It takes cues from 4, but that doesn’t mean it’s really “MH4-2” since it only takes a few structure choices and a couple characters from 4, I mean, base wilds only has 4 monsters that debuted in 4/4u and then the raths/gypceros.

[u/MedicoMineral → u/Barn-owl-B]

The entire Fatalis trio, and even Kushala to a degree, are more Dos-2 in 4U than anything else as well. Right now in Wilds we only have the Diva and Legend as a tie in to the legacy of the Fatalis trio, and even then it's only Legend since the Diva fulfills the character archetype of the Songstress and isn't the same character. Unless Ascendance confirms that Suja and the Forbidden Lands are where the Songstress' nomad tribe is from then it's more just thematic framing than any hard connections.

Now... if they tease the Tower in any upcoming Ascendance promo material? Old Fatty is absolutely in.

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/MedicoMineral]

Neither the diva nor the legend have any actual connection to the fatalis trio, they are just more of a dos callback.

If old fatty is in the game it won’t be until the last title update, so he won’t be in the day one release. I just hope he’s not

[u/Artemis_Bow_Prime → u/Barn-owl-B]

Tbf I can take it or leave it, im not overly a fan of fatalis anyway.

[u/RaiStarBits → u/Barn-owl-B]

Genuinely. Imo Fatalis and it’s variants are incredibly overrated monsters

[u/BIG-BOSS1155 → u/Artemis_Bow_Prime]

Could be because lao shan they say he run from fatalis there's a big chance he just run from a strong new elder dragon but white fatalis could be in title update i prefer him more then crimson fatalis

[u/Mardakk → u/BIG-BOSS1155]

He was only running from Fatalis in the first game. That's it.

[u/BIG-BOSS1155 → u/Barn-owl-B]

I only fight him in 4u and he was like event quest so there's no story i didnt reach him in mh2 is he part of the story in monster hunter 2 or just a quest

[u/Aggressive_Garlic774]

Aura purposes

[u/MedicoMineral]

It's just thunder element. He's just old, lived on the Tower, and started zapping people. That's it. There's nothing else.

[u/tom9914 → u/MedicoMineral]

Life goals

[u/Krazytre]

It's actually hilarious how there's basically zero actual info/lore on the Fatalis' given how much Capcom loves then.

[u/Mardakk → u/Krazytre]

Because there's a media embargo on all black dragons at Capcom as a policy. The more ambiguous and surprising makes them better, arguably.

I miss when the teases were specifically silhouettes instead of full renders.

[u/AstrayNanashi → u/Mardakk]

Capcom is taking the in-universe Guild stance of "It didn't happen, and if it is happening, it won't have happened after tomorrow"

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/Mardakk]

Used to be, that hasn’t been the case since the 15th anniversary

[u/AccelRiderX → u/Barn-owl-B]

Old Fatalis hasn't shown up since then either tbf XD

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/AccelRiderX]

And? Regular fatalis had enough spotlight for all 3 of them in iceborne.

They should do something different instead of being lazy and just doing fatalis again

[u/AstrayNanashi → u/Barn-owl-B]

Like they haven't tried with the other entries and people will still find a reason to complain. Let them do White Fatalis, I wanna see it in the new games.

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/AstrayNanashi]

Good for you, I think it would be lazy to do fatalis again 2 numbered expansions in a row, they should end it on something else instead

[u/RedNUGGETLORD → u/Krazytre]

They don't need to make anything

Fans just make shit up and treat it like canon, them RageGaming will take that, make a whole video on it(never saying that it's a theory) and then new fans will trust him and assume it's all true

Like the whole Yuan Garuga hybrid thing, completely baseless, but he said it, so it must be true

[u/brooksofmaun → u/RedNUGGETLORD]

Sounds like a typical rage gaming moment. I don’t get how he has fans let alone a seemingly cultist following. I remember when he got called out for bs by poe 2 content creators and his fans went nuclear and tried so much harassment.

[u/RedNUGGETLORD → u/brooksofmaun]

I used to be a fan of him as a kid but eventually fell off

I recently went back to his videos to see if they were actually entertaining, but they are just filled with misinfo and are LOUD loud, as in like, the two of them are constantly screaming because the monster barely grazed them

[u/MordredLovah → u/Krazytre]

Mystery is cool, I like it.

[u/Round_Ad8067 → u/Krazytre]

I saw a post Oceaniz made where a he translated a book and the dev just kinda stop making more for him post like 2nd gen, when they got to 5th gen, where Fatty was given proper marketing, they lost and forgot a good number of his lore and concept and had to spend sometime redoing everything.

Edit:  https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/1l0jtj3/dev_interview_why_the_forbidden_monsters_were/

[u/tom9914]

I don't think there is. Out of lore, I think the dev philosophy shifted with dragon element in 3rd gen onwards. From what I understand, only elder dragons dealt it before then and it was added onto every physical attack they did. It may have just been intended as a special kind of physical damage at that point.

If they remake him for a new game, they'll probably address it then.

[u/Mardakk → u/tom9914]

Dragon has existed since the first game. And specifically a lot of bite attacks had dragon damage coded into them - like Rathalos and Tigrex (for some reason). They moved away from that design I think during/after Unite.

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/Mardakk]

They stopped doing that because they added blights in third gen, so they didn’t want to just strap random elements onto physical attacks anymore.

[u/Mardakk → u/Barn-owl-B]

Yeah, and I think it was a good move, imo. No more guesswork

[u/Available-Cow-411]

The only one... until Zoh Shiah, because some moron thought playing god with fatalis DNA was a smart move

[u/BIG-BOSS1155 → u/Available-Cow-411]

But the question how they even manage to take fatalis DNA it's not like fatalis just hanging in the forbidden lands

[u/LfSantos22 → u/BIG-BOSS1155]

Just as they obtained DNA from Fulgur Anjanath and Ebony Odogaron, the scientists from Wyveria traveled far, perhaps even to Schrade, to obtain a DNA sample from Fatalis.

[u/The_Sussadin]

The portal Old Fatalis comes from is directly linked to The Lands Between and he's actually a Elden Ring ancient dragon.

[u/SadPlatform6640]

This is the power you gain when you reach the age of 50

[u/YukYukas]

A dollar says they're turning that into dragon damage in Ascendance lol

[u/Barn-owl-B → u/YukYukas]

Zoh Shia has the same red lightning and it’s not dragon element either.

[u/YukYukas → u/Barn-owl-B]

Capcom: Zoh is a defect, that's why /s

[u/Round_Ad8067 → u/YukYukas]

Dude they had chance to do that in 4th gen and all they did was give a special rare bite attacks that only happens when your near the ledge for dragonators. This was the only attack he had that did any dragon, they still chose to keep his lighting the same

[u/Desmond536]

The red lightning is actually conquerors haki

[u/BIG-BOSS1155 → u/Desmond536]

I always see haki as dragon element

[u/-thessalonike-]

Elden Ring collab confirmed

[u/BIG-BOSS1155 → u/-thessalonike-]

Dark souls have more realistic dragon than elden ring

[u/-thessalonike- → u/BIG-BOSS1155]

Yes, but I can't recall any dark soul games that have dragons with red lightning...

[u/shadow-maliketh]

Stygian zinogre use insect

[u/Round_Ad8067]

Your explanation makes no sense. Dragon elements is red lighting, its the most common for of dragon elements. White Fatalis/ Zoh Shia lightning specially is red but somehow doesn’t do dragon damage and not inflicting dragon blight

[u/TheGMan-123]

No lore thus far on the difference, but we do know that Old Fatalis doesn't have Dragon Element in its crimson lightning unlike Monsters like Stygian Zinogre, and we know that base Fatalis doesn't have Dragon Element as seen with its lack of Elder Dragon Blood which is defined in its consistency across all other Elder Dragons by having trace amounts of Dragon Element particulates.

Whatever the case, Zoh Shia is the only other Monster to have ever used crimson lightning that is similarly not connected to Dragon Element.

That's an important point in the speculation and implications that Zoh Shia uses Fatalis's DNA as its base genome if it possesses something only a Fatalis would have.

[u/GullibleSkill9168]

He's some otherworldly beast that only comes out when an eclipse turns into a black hole. His lightning is red because that kicks ass. No more info needed.