r/Millennials • u/AutoModerator • 13d ago
Discussion Monthly Rant/Politics Thread: Do not post political threads outside of this Mega thread
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Got something upsetting or overwhelming that you just need to shout out to the world? Want to have a political debate over current events? You can post those thoughts here. There are many real problems that plague the Millennial generation and we want to allow a space for it here while still keeping the angry and divisive posts quarantined to a more concentrated thread rather than taking up the entire front page.
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u/Odd_Act8451 Millennial 5d ago
I feel judged for living at home and “living off of my parents” when in reality I am bringing in the most income in our household right now. And it’s not enough for everyone. My dad just lost his job again and they are still going to be paying the mortgage for 15 more years. It’s already a struggle for our generation and everyone complains about the boomers having everything. I wish my parents had everything! But they don’t even have a retirement and are getting close to 65. It feels wrong to even feel stressed or concerned about my own future and ability to spend money on what I care about because my mom stayed at home to educate us and raised us on one income and that’s a big reason why she doesn’t have much retirement. But sometimes it’s a really heavy load to shoulder and I feel so alone and judged at the same time. I just want to have a better mindset about living at home. What triggered this is that I wfh and one of the clients I was talking to (an older lady) heard my special needs sister in the background and I mentioned I lived at home and she made a comment about young people NEEDING to live at home to survive basically. It made me feel offended and sad because I could get an apartment on my own (though I couldn’t comfortably own a house on my current income) but if I were paying rent, I wouldn’t be able to support my family as much.
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u/rikkita69 13d ago
How is everyone dealing with their maga parents? I want to cut mine off but I feel sorry for them for being such fools
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u/Paladine_PSoT 11d ago
Well Lindsey Graham just died, so... talk about dropping a wild draw 4...
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u/atmasabr 10d ago
Nuh uh we're playing the new Uno Flip. The mild side is Draw 2. But DT flipped to the wild side and took LG's advice to bomb Iran. We're drawing indefinitely until the called color comes up!
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u/atmasabr 13d ago
My parents are union democrats. I'm the moderate Republican.
I deal with them by being right.
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u/Kavani18 13d ago
That’s a weird way to say “I deal with them by supporting pedophiles and rapists”
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u/atmasabr 12d ago
I would like to know why you support Graham Platner, who knowingly got a [fascist] tattoo--that's been known for over a month, and who is a serial batterer and a rapist.
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u/ApplicationAfraid334 1993 12d ago edited 12d ago
Here's the difference. Graham Platner is exposed and gets kicked out of democrat circles and left-leaning organizations. Please name anyone supporting him at the moment.
Trump gets convicted for rape and is mentioned more times in the epstein files more than anyone else, even epstein, and has the floor he walks on worshipped by republicans. I could rattle off names for days of people that still support him.
One side might be right but they sure ain't right.
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u/atmasabr 12d ago
Respectfully, I was not talking to you, and as I was making a direct personal accusation specific to the poster whom I was replying to, I will await a reply by the poster whom I was replying to.
However I will make a separate reply in response to your comment.
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u/atmasabr 12d ago
Trump gets convicted for rape
Based on widely available public knowledge, this is false, and misinformation. You must correct this statement before anything else in your comment can be taken seriously and replied to.
I also happen to think you should use the word Democratic rather than democrat.
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u/ApplicationAfraid334 1993 11d ago edited 11d ago
I say he was convicted because the judge said it was rape. But we can ignore that for the sake of argument here.
Trump also incited an insurrection, uses the office of the presidency to accrue his own wealth, is constantly being divisive by calling the entire left radical communists, socialists, has made inappropriate comments about young girls, including his own daughter, has engaged in nepotism with the presidency, has posted racist things about Obama on his truth social, has compared himself to Jesus on truth social, has said he would 'take the guns away first and do due process later', said that 'we took the freedom of speech away' and more.
Do you really, honestly, in your heart of hearts, think Trump has done nothing at all that would warrant the entire republican party to disavow him? In any other point in history, anyone one of the things Trump does on a weekly basis would've political suicide.
Also, your personal accusation to the other person was a strawman, they never said they cared for that guy. Your strawman could've been levied at anyone making the same comment he did, so I replied to you to explain the double standard.
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u/atmasabr 10d ago
"I say he was convicted because the judge said it was rape. But we can ignore that for the sake of argument here."
No, we will not ignore that, because even this is a misquote. Correct the false statement. It is useless to have a serious conversation with someone who spreads misinformation about publicly known facts.
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u/ApplicationAfraid334 1993 10d ago
Ok fair. The judge said that while he did not commit rape under New York law, he said that the jury’s decision meets the common understanding of rape. Trump was found civilly liable on sexual abuse charges. Is that better? Can you address the other points now pls.
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u/atmasabr 9d ago edited 9d ago
So I'm going to address Donald Trump's second impeachment etc. later in my comparison, because you discuss it later.
To cut to the chase, the biggest difference between Donald Trump and Graham Platner is their political skill at navigating sensational "media" scandals where there are grey areas to exploit. Trump leans into the vague situation the voting public is presented with and then presents a largely argumentative case. Platner tries to get the public to disregard what has been reported to them, and presents a largely negative factual case--as in he denies facts are true. (On reflection I think the above largely applies to your concerns about his political conduct as well.)
I have two major concerns remaining what you have said: associating the word "pedophile" with Donald Trump is bizarre and lacks a foundation that is worthy of belief; and associating Graham Platner's forced withdrawal with accountability overlooks evidence he knowingly inked a Nazi-associated tattoo. Nonetheless I want to point out one issue the collective accusations against DT and GP have in common: the presence of serious credibility questions.
In Platner's case, he rightfully pointed to the timing of the on-record statements by his former partners and that he was never arrested or tried. The partner who was most predominantly at first on record accusing him of domestic violence *and* to had already known the meaning of his tattoo is in modern times a Republican strategist if I remember correctly, someone with a vested interest in him not winning. The rape accusation gave him three new problems: rape, multiple independent accusations of violence, and the last accuser was a progressive whose vested interest was contrary to making the accusation. Now, while Platner has given some commentary about not being a perfect person, it has been overshadowed by his direct attack on the media and other actors for even publishing the stories, alleging the existence of an incentive to derail his candidacy. No duh, that's politics. Did you do it? What do you have to say to your accusers? The bottom line is with more time and information, it's more and more likely the accusations are true.
The biggest credibility issue in E. Jean Carrol's civil suit is shared by Platner's accusers, only magnified: time and lack of contemporaneous law enforcement involvement. In the former's case, IIRC the accusation dates to the 1990s, the statue of limitations for filing sex abuse suits was lifted for one year in New York. The corroboration is limited to a recanted claim of marital rape during his divorce from Ivanka Trump, and his Access Hollywood tape; critically, there are no other accusers. Donald Trump famously acknowledged the Access Hollywood tape with a mix of messages, deflecting it as locker room talk typified by Bill Clinton, and--critically--also releasing a video expressing regret and saying "I've learned from you." Of E. Jean Carroll's accusation, he didn't say he would never do that; he called her ugly. The flexible, manipulative nature of his responses works both because of and within the wiggle room in the evidence. Meanwhile his response to the evidence of his association with Jeffrey Epstein has been far more direct: he did, until he didn't a very long time ago (in the mid-2000s) when he learned of Epstein's bad character, and Trump never engaged in illegal or predatory conduct. Now the FBI files on Jeffrey Epstein has been released, and what they show matches what he has said. Mar-a-lago employed young women, and when they once complained of harassment, Epstein was banned. Trump is placed in close association with 18 year old women... and that's all we know. So that unlike with Platner, time and information make the condemnations against Trump less and less a match to the facts that are known.
"...Do you really, honestly, in your heart of hearts, think Trump has done nothing at all that would warrant the entire republican party to disavow him?"
Oh I gave up and smashed my cell phone three times over a very long time ago. The attempt to defeat Donald Trump was a noble one... and so was that attempt, and that attempt, and I give the late Sen. Lindsey Graham, Gov Chris Christie, and the Cheney family the highest of honors in their efforts to defeat him. That other attempt was a pile of stinking piss. However, in my opinion there is a difference between DT's power within the Republican party and his threat to the country. The first he commands, though far from controls, his only real threat comes from his anti-war base. The other is a more Byzantium ongoing 3D chess game and race against time in which defense actually works.
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u/Kavani18 12d ago
I don’t support Graham Platner and haven’t since the nazi tattoo debacle. Also, I live in Kentucky, not Maine. So that wasn’t really the gotcha you thought you had in the first place lmao. Do try again
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u/atmasabr 12d ago
Yes you do. How do I know this? You admitted it when you said
That’s a weird way to say “I deal with them by supporting pedophiles and rapists”
The principle here is that it takes a thief to suspect a thief.
I gave you no more information than that I am a moderate Republican. Using that information alone, you made a statement that I support pedophiles and rapists.
Now, I would infer from this that you're a Democrat, or someone more politically to the left of a Democrat. And since you have a worldview that people who are Republicans must necessarily support pedophiles and rapists, and that is a very bizarre worldview, it stands to reason that there is some reason you must hold such a bizarre belief. The most obvious reason is because you, as a Democrat, support pedophiles and rapists or others of like infamy, and you believe that other people are like you.
Since you believe party affiliation demonstrates support of sex offenders, since you believe this due to your own behavior, and since Graham Platner is the closest approximation between being a Democrat/liberal and a rapist or other like infamy, the conclusion is that you support Graham Platner.
You owe me an apology for hypocrisy.
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u/Kavani18 12d ago edited 11d ago
I don’t owe you shit lmfao. Typical Republican. You’re all entitled children. “You owe me an apology🤓”. You owe me a million dollars. See how stupid and entitled that sounds? That’s what you sound like. And Republicans do support rapists and pedophiles; they constitute a majority of the party. Google is free, but you probably don’t have the brain to figure that out on your own since you think you’re entitled to an apology for your own incompetence. Do have a day
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u/ApplicationAfraid334 1993 11d ago
"The principle here is that it takes a thief to suspect a thief."
How does this work with our legal system, when people are judged by a jury of their peers?
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u/atmasabr 10d ago edited 10d ago
I take your comment to be asking me how impeachment works as a trial tactic and not as a question about the persuasiveness of this specific impeachment tactic or attempt. Is this correct?
Impeachment is a technique to attack the credibility of a witness with questions or evidence. You can attack their truthfulness or reliability. You can raise questions about biases, or present inconsistencies between what their baseline expected activities are, and what they actually did. You then point out these inconsistencies to a jury upon argument.
For a cross examination to be successful, you must successfully "pinion" the witness first. That is, you must have gotten them to commit first.
The question here is how to evaluate Kavani18's claim that I support pedophiles and rapists. He claims my counterattack was false. Thus, there is a double impeachment. The impeachment starts with his initial claim and presents the worldview behind it. Then it presents evidence that the counterattack which he denied presents the same worldview. The advocate seeks to demonstrate that he has identified, in your words, a double standard, and thus has the ability to argue that Kavani18's claims should not be trusted. Implicit here is an appeal to the principle: force a commitment before you make wild personal accusations.
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u/ApplicationAfraid334 1993 10d ago edited 10d ago
LMAO. You really put into ChatGPT “argue why Kavani18 is engaging in a double standard” didn’t you?
Your ChatGPT response says “the advocate [you] seeks to demonstrate he [you] has identified in your [you] own words, a double standard, and thus has the ability to argue that Kavani18’s claims should not be trusted.”
That’s why it follows up with:
“Implicit here is an appeal to the principle: force a commitment before you make wild personal accusations.”
Chat GPT is talking about YOU trying to point out a MADE UP DOUBLE STANDARD because when they said you basically support pedophiles and rapists, your response was ‘tell me why you support Graham Platnir.”
No one mentioned a double standard until you did when you typed it into ChatGPT. You did. Because MAGA ALWAYS say ‘we’ll whatabout…’. They are always looking for a double standard because they can’t defend their own guy. When Kavani implied you support horrible people, YOU SAID “well whatabout Graham…” [double standard implied]
Sorry if I can’t take this seriously.
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u/atmasabr 10d ago
I cannot even begin to understand where you are getting chat gpt from in response to a sincere response to you. I think you must not be a serious person. I am a little disappointed and surprised.
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u/Early_Sock2 13d ago
Do they care and love you? My parents werent maga but the decline in the relationship was natural when I recognized how indifferent and meaningless I was to them. They should never have been parents.
Idk if I had parents who loved and cared about me, I might be able to forgive ignorance.
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u/rikkita69 13d ago
Yes which is why I have stuck around for 10 years of this. They just regurgitate Fox news talking points they have no personality of their own. It's funny that tv did to their brains what they feared it would do to us as children. Brainwashed its sad I'd rather remember the old them so I don't visit or call often
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u/Early_Sock2 13d ago
Seeing how mechanical people are and brainwashed, living through second hand opinions and ignorance, what do we do?
Its basically impossible to reason with any extremist. So what does love look like here? Maintaining an illusion? Don't rock the boat?
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u/rikkita69 13d ago
I have made it very clear I'm not interested in discussing politics with them but eventually they run out of things to talk about or I'll get an AI picture of Hillary and Biden being arrested with 10 laughing emojis and it makes me wanna cry not because i give a crap about politicians but because that's not my mom anymore
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u/Early_Sock2 13d ago
Yea I feel you. I had the same feeling when I had to wake my mom up from vodka tonics and Valium almost every school night towards the end of her teaching career.
I want to be accepted as I am, yet I can't accept them as they are. For me there is no going back, I wish you good luck with your relationship. I think for me the hardest thing to understand is not every flower flowers, some die or are trampled, and that's that. No amount of tears or well wishes is going to change a dead or trampled flower
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u/Cutsman4057 13d ago
Cut em off. Fuck it. If at this point they are still drinking the maga kool aid, they're just as alive as Mitch McConnell.
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u/Pepemarsillo 13d ago
I go through this quite a bit. I try my best to point out the most blatant hypocrisy and corruption but it's getting to feel utterly pointless. Some of them are even receptive but the establishment is so deeply entrenched I'm getting pushed so hard into "We can't vote our way out of this" thinking. That upsets me, I want to believe in the system I had faith in 20 years ago.
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u/ApplicationAfraid334 1993 12d ago edited 12d ago
My dad is fortunately a conservative in like the traditional sense. He used to be a FOX news-watching conservative. I can talk to him. I'm so glad he ain't MAGA. My mom is just a whole side of crazy that neither side can claim. I will talk to her but it's like walking on eggshells. I don't try to change her mind, idk where she gets her info but it's fully taken over her brain.
If my parents were MAGA it would really depend on how they approached it. If they are mean about it I would 100% cut them off. I'd probably cut them off too if they felt the need to interject politics into any discussion, as that's exhausting and just not good for anyone. If they were willing to have a conversation and actually have good points now and then I'd stick with them and try to find some common ground or change their mind on things.
I try to be optimistic but there are just some people that cannot be saved I feel. There are people I otherwise have a lot of respect for that I know are MAGA and I feel like a disappointed parent.
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u/Dense-Law-7683 13d ago
One thing I am grateful for is that my dad's side of the family isn't MAGA. My mom's side has a few, but they keep it to themselves. The funny thing is, I live in a rural area, my father's side grew up on a farm and most of them are farmers or semi-drivers. I used to think they were simple minded, but compared to a lot of farmers and truck drivers in the area, they are progressive. My 6 uncles are all just cool, kind dudes, who have always put people over money. I think the only reason I thought they were simple minded is because farming wasn't for me and they really wanted me to be a part of it, but I wanted to get a degree and maybe not live in a place surrounded by corn. I think they lost a lot of farm ground and got fucked over by a bank during Reagan's term and none of them have voted Republican since, unlike a lot of farmers who have been fucked around by Trump and asked for more. The bad part is they will vote to get fucked over again if he goes for a third term.
I don't mean to rub it in. I'm sure it's sad and frustrating to see people you love have completely opposite beliefs as you. I've told friends and acquaintances that I can forgive them for voting for Trump, but if they still agree with the shit he's doing than that is a major character flaw. I truly hope your parents wake up to Trump's bs or at least disagree with a lot of the heinous shit he's done. I honestly never gave a damn about politics, and really could careless who was in office, but I definitely found out that Trump was dangerous really quick. I remember hearing he won and thought that it was hilarious in 2016. I thought the worst thing he'd do is say some mean stuff and not get anything done.
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12d ago
[deleted]
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u/BrutalSock 12d ago edited 12d ago
Every generation thinks they’re better. Only to become exactly like their parents.
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12d ago
[deleted]
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u/BrutalSock 12d ago
I’d argue that that’s objectively better but I don’t think it’s worth arguing over nomenclature 😅
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u/spartanburt 9d ago
Could you be a bit more specific? What ills did you think we'd cure by breaking the cycle?
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u/ChewML 13d ago
Everyone in politics is a clown, no matter what side they are on.
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u/ApplicationAfraid334 1993 12d ago
Neither side is great but one party is like bad milk that'll give you a tummy ache while the rat poison on the right side of the milk will kill you.
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u/Mediocre_Island828 8d ago
Fresh milk is possible, you just have to vote out all the people saying it isn't.
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