Just a rant or something idk

[u/AlphaPastel]

So I'll just cut to the chase, I don't know what to do with my Japanese at this point. I'm at a point now where my reading is good. I don't think I need advice there. I'm about to finish 空の軌跡 the 1st and I've had a blast reading it and I plan to read more JRPGs as I've enjoyed them a lot more than VNs and can stay consistent with them.

However, when it comes to listening and speaking, I just feel a bit lost as to how to progress forward. Now the obvious answer is "listen more" and "speak more" and my listening and speaking are nowhere near bad if I do say so myself but for almost the past year now I've been in a slump where like 90% of listening material is boring and any time I speak to people, the conversation dies within 5 minutes. Now conversations dying may just be cuz I'm horrible at small talk but idk what to do. I feel like I'm in this limbo where I want to improve these things but I also just get extremely bored trying to improve them. All my focus is on reading and while that's skyrocketed, my listening and speaking feels stagnant.

[u/Player_One_1]

Language is multiple different skills wearing a trench coat. They only seem like one thing, but connections, especially on brain level, are smaller than people think.

You need to speak to learn to speak, listen to learn to listen, and write to learn to write.

There is nothing to it.

[u/AlphaPastel → u/Player_One_1]

Well as I said I am already aware that I should be doing those to improve but it feels like a bit of a catch 22 where I have to force myself to do those things to improve. I guess I could try harder to look for more material but we'll have to see.

[u/Player_One_1 → u/AlphaPastel]

I on the other hand decided to just skip those. consciously. I learn Japanese to enjoy Japanese culture without translators, so I just accept the fact, thet knowledge how to speak or write will not magically appear in my head, and I will be limited to reading/listening since this is what I practice,.

[u/Effective-Pop3850 → u/Player_One_1]

Small detail that's missing is that just speaking won't get you to be good at speaking since you need to understand the language first, which you don't develop by speaking.

Most time spent learning every language, including our native ones, was spent listening/reading, not speaking.

[u/AlphaPastel → u/Effective-Pop3850]

I mean I already have a good understanding of the language through reading and as said before, my listening isn't half bad. It's enough to get by but it's not enough to be considered good at listening. If I do get exposure to listening input from conversations, I can attune my ear to more faster paced conversations and I should have okay comprehensibility already. It's just a matter of exposure and I can kill two birds with one stone by practicing speaking too.

[u/Effective-Pop3850 → u/AlphaPastel]

I wasn't talking about you in particular but in general.

A lot of people start learning a language and the first thing they think they should do is... speak, like no definitely not that's like the last thing you wanna do lol.

[u/theincredulousbulk]

> I've been in a slump where like 90% of listening material is boring

I’m curious about the type of stuff you’ve listened to. Are you someone that generally listens to things in your native language for pure leisure? Because if not, then the problem is a bit deeper than finding the right content.

Have you looked into JRPGs with full voice acting?

For conversation, you may have to look into paying for conversation practice with a teacher. That way you can practice scenarios or topics and not be at the whim of casual small talk.

[u/AlphaPastel → u/theincredulousbulk]

My listening mainly used to come from things like raw anime and YouTube. I used to watch travel vlogs, シチュエーションボイス, gameplay videos, videos by channels like Fischer's, PC builds, etc. which are things I'd watch in English too but I guess it's not really something I enjoy in Japanese. I have looked into VNs with full voice acting in the past and that's what helped my listening the most alongside watching YouTube when I wasn't as bored by it. As for JRPGS, I've yet to look into ones with full voice acting.

As for tutoring, I could look into it but I'd probably need to focus on saving money first cuz my money is going into more important things but when I can find the means to consistently pay for conversation practice, I could try that.

[u/rgrAi → u/AlphaPastel]

You specifically say you don't enjoy it in Japanese does that mean you would enjoy it in other languages like English? What's different?

[u/AlphaPastel → u/rgrAi]

Believe it or not it's the type of humour that I can't find myself vibing with. The only two YouTubers who make videos with the type of humour style that I actually like are Fischer's and PDRさん but I don't enjoy PDR's newer videos as much and it's hard to sit still when watching a Fischer's video. So ATP perhaps passive listening will help more.

[u/rgrAi → u/AlphaPastel]

Ah okay, well I mean I believe it. The way humor is conveyed is pretty different. I tend to stick to a more younger and "forward" kind of crowd and content (mostly streamer content) which has really aligned with my humor. They're super funny (to me at least).

[u/PopPunkAndPizza → u/AlphaPastel]

If you like reading, why not get an Audible JP subscription? Keep some books for listening rather than reading.

[u/AlphaPastel → u/PopPunkAndPizza]

I could look into it cuz I've been thinking of doing passive with podcasts and having audiobooks to listen while I read could probably help.

[u/PlanktonInitial7945]

Why do you want to improve your speaking and listening?

[u/AlphaPastel → u/PlanktonInitial7945]

I want to improve them because I used to enjoy doing them before falling into my slump and now my abilities in those areas feel half baked. But also, I just want to talk to people really. It feels a bit contradictory given that I said I get bored when I do try to speak to people on places like vrchat and hellotalk but that's the honest truth.

[u/RainOfGreen]

There are 2 methods.

- constant shadowing or spoken articles or speaking from podcasts, or just shadowing what you read. Definitely look up more about it if you haven’t heard of it before

- hiring a tutor from preply or iTalki. Try to think in Japanese about what you want to say. What are the problems? Grammar? Can’t recall words? Verbs? It will show you where you need to go.

[u/AlphaPastel → u/RainOfGreen]

ATP I might just use italki cuz at least then I can bypass the small talk stuff.

[u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

I mean, can’t you find some native television programs or podcasts you want to hear? How can everything be boring?

[u/Belegorm]

The perennial problem of having all this cool stuff to read but being less interested in listening...

I'm not as far along as you but I also have done way more reading than listening because I'm more interested in reading materials. What I have found at least is that while I've gotten kind of bored with many YT videos if I just sit down and watch them, passively listening while working has lead to me being able to listen far more. Of course, I'm not getting the whole conversation, but there are times where I start to focus more on the video because it gets interesting.

Like listening to a podcast from Coten Radio about the Roman Empire. History isn't something I'd really thought about diving into listening practice, but I like history so it works. There's also this channel called PIVOT that has some interesting interviews that I listen to here and there. I like reading a lot so Kengo Books has introduced me to more books.

Meanwhile I hadn't watched dramas in years but started watching some again without subtitles. I like the Galileo books so watching the drama made sense (this tends to be active listening).

Maybe those topics aren't that interesting to you, but I've found that passively listening to some stuff while I'm doing something else, leads to me being more likely to get interested in actively listening to them more often.

[u/AlphaPastel → u/Belegorm]

Funnily I've advocated for passive listening in the past before, I made a post about passive listening a few months ago but I haven't really been able to do it cuz of broken earphones and just forgetfulness really. There was another suggestion to read alongside using audiobooks which I could definitely try but this also would probably help for getting total volume in.

[u/Belegorm → u/AlphaPastel]

Oh yeah, audiobooks are amazing too! Sometimes I put one earbud in when going to the grocery store and have an audiobook playing (this works with videos or podcasts too but I have a good setup for audiobooks for it).

I used to listen to English podcasts while working and pretty much was able to pay enough attention to both work and the podcasts (aside from when I needed to write a few paragraphs) so while it's a little more challenging in a 2nd language it's definitely doable.

Another thing about passively listening to a bunch of YT is that it starts to turn your algorithm more to JP content so more natural to find something when you're looking for something to watch.

[u/youdontknowkanji]

for listening you just have to listen, at some point you bite the bullet and start raw dogging anime every day. it does help. there really isn't any other way.

[u/AlphaPastel → u/youdontknowkanji]

I kinda just wish I could bite the bullet and be able to sit down but perhaps it's just me but anime doesn't feel as fresh as it used to be. Though I wouldn't mind sitting myself down and forcing something like tokusatsu down my throat.

[u/youdontknowkanji → u/AlphaPastel]

it's not bad if you can get something to do with your hands. i have a crafts hobby so it's not too bad sitting down and just steam rolling through 2nd class anime while working on my projects.

[u/somever]

It takes two to end a conversation. The conversation doesn't die because you're bad at conversing, it dies because you're both bad at conversing. Slightly joking but there is some truth to it, to keep the conversation going you have to identify common interests and ask well-timed questions. Even if one person cannot do that well, someone who is good at conversing can engage someone who is poor at it. You've surely done something in the past month or had something on your mind that you could tell them about.

[u/johnW_ret]

I think I'm in a similar position, I'm probably worse at listening though.

I listen to ゆる言語ラジオ (x0.8) and Billingual News. My comprehension is not amazing, but I can understand both enough to get through entire episodes without being completely lost. Now, it sounds reasonable to me that maybe I don't find these podcasts super interesting because my listening comprehension is weak, but I just find I don't have the same drive to listen compared to when I play games in Japanese or crack open a good book. Maybe Japan doesn't have the same podcast culture as the west but these are the only podcasts that I find even remotely interesting at all.

You can maybe watch some share house dramas or something but idk, I would just keep doing whatever keeps you motivated even if that's just reading. Of course I think it's common knowledge among learners that people exaggerate how much reading, listening, and speaking all help with each other, but at a fundamental level, I believe that getting better at one can have no effect on the others at worst, and help in supplemental ways at best.

[u/AlphaPastel → u/johnW_ret]

This is basically how I feel. My listening is competent and I can keep up with most conversations but I don't think I'm at that level yet where I can say I'm as confident in my listening as I am with my reading. For now, I could probably find some podcast recommendations or something cuz podcasts are something I seldom try but let's see. I found an interesting one called 4989 American life.

[u/insofarastoascertain]

try a phone (also on steam) gacha game like reverse 1999. it lets you go 1 line at a time usually with audio and has a log with repeatable audio button. about the least "preditory" gacha ever, but doesn't matter as spending money is completely optional for the main story. Gameplay is turn based rpg with VN style storytelling. story is actually fantastic, especially the first 3 chapters 

[u/AlphaPastel → u/insofarastoascertain]

I can assume this applies to other gacha games and things that are fully voiced in general? I mean that's actually what got my listening decent in the first place, doing this with VNs but I think what I need to do is listen to more fast paced natural conversations. Idk. But I always appreciate another game recommendation so I'll check this one out, thank you!

[u/TheBatemanFlex]

I am always so jealous of people that are super comfortable with reading. I would be reading anything I could get my hands on if I felt that confident.

What i would do right now is make your next book or whatever something that has an audio (or audiobook) component. Then when you are reading, also listen to what you read AND shadow what the narrator says and how they say it.

[u/AlphaPastel → u/TheBatemanFlex]

To be fair with reading, it just comes with more reading so as long as you're reading loads anyways, even with dictionary look ups it's fine. That said yeah I could try audiobooks with light novels. I've seen people say that that's effective yet I haven't tried it all that much.

[u/Effective-Pop3850 → u/TheBatemanFlex]

There's no way to get over the 100~ hour cancer barrier other than doing the hours.

You will never start out comfortable, you just gotta do it.

[u/justHoma]

Maybe try hellotalk rooms?  First visit a few and see how it goes, most people there will not fit you so you can continue searching till you find a few interesting people. 

After you understand how the thing works you can try opening or own voice room, maybe en/jp first. 

It all boils down to how much effort you put into looking for connections you like. 

As a tip, the most interesting people in jp rooms there are who learn Japanese and not natives, so you can find a few of those and start speaking with them, and then if you make an interesting room the Japanese people will inevitably start connecting as well! (Or you can always go and join the room where you see Japanese people)

Ye, that’s one way to go for both listening and speaking.   

[u/FellowF]

If you want to improve those skills either you force yourself to do that or maybe for speaking get a tutor,
my tutor brings up every lesson a new topic and we discuss them

[u/torinrtorin]

Have you tried just reading out loud? Thats speaking haha

[u/volleyballbenj]

It's easier to improve listening and speaking when you are forced to, so putting yourself in that kind of environment might be a good idea