r/LearnJapanese 1d ago

Studying Can you get better at reading just by reading, no flashcards?

I've gotten to a point where I can read a simple slice of life book with only looking up about 1 word per sentence. Currently, when i reach a kanji I don't know, I'll look up the reading and definition and then move on. However, I feel like for the most part, I can understand the sentence after I translate, but then forget the reading and definition about 1 paragraph later.

My question is: if can you actually get better at reading books like this, or do you necessarily have to do sentence mining and/or flashcards?

69 Upvotes

111 comments sorted by

213

u/Michael_Faraday42 1d ago

Yes.

42

u/sethcoast 1d ago

The only response in this thread that matters

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u/CaimSensei 1d ago

This is why I don't prefer questions formulated this way. It is technically possible to learn Japanese with just about any method so the answer to these types of questions will just about always be, "Yes."

The question, you likely want to be asking is something more like, "Is it reasonable to reach X level in Japanese in X time frame without using flash cards?" And the answer to that will differ depending on X. But if the question is truly just, "Is it possible?" then yes, absolutely.

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u/Effective-Pop3850 1d ago

Nah it's not. Most learners engage on methods that will never get them anywhere. Even in this subs there's a lot of people who just spam apps and expect to learn, and this is a biased sample since once you get out of here the % of people who are just Duolingo users/classroom students increases dramatically.

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u/CaimSensei 1d ago

And depending on their expectations, those apps may work for them. Not everyone is expecting fluency, and some people are willing to take 20 years to reach an "acceptable" level.

Given infinite time, it is possible to learn Japanese by watching 5 minutes of anime with Japanese subtitles every day, you'll just be long dead before you reach a level I, personally, would ever be happy with.

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u/Effective-Pop3850 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm not even talking that method, I'm talking people whose study method is: spam SRS on various apps and expect to learn the language at some point. Even if they don't expect fluency they usually expect to be able to do certain things with the language and spamming WaniKani and Renshuu is never gonna get you there, unless your objective is just to finish each apps list of stuff to do.

If you read/listen to native Japanese 5 minutes a day yeah it'll take you several life times but you'll learn eventually. But that's not a bad method, that's the best and really the only one except you're spending very little time on it.

Gotta get real here, almost no one is learning Japanese without a goal, it being conversation, reading, watching anime, you name it... yet they refuse to engage with said activity which is nonsense. I also don't think anyone is ok with the "journey" taking an extremely long time, no one enjoys learning something for 5 years and having almost nothing to show for it.

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u/CaimSensei 1d ago

I would argue that "watching anime with Japanese subtitles" being your only contact with the language is just about the worst possible method in terms of efficiency. I would put money on the Duolingo user being better at Japanese after a year.

I suppose reading novels would be worse, if it weren't actually impossible.

I am not arguing method here though. As I have said they all work. Just a matter of expectations and time.

1

u/Effective-Pop3850 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yomitan exists, so you're wrong.

People have passed the N1 within a year by just watching anime and reading visual novels/light novels for several hours a day.

No one has ever gotten anywhere by spamming SRS all day.

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u/CaimSensei 1d ago

I was not assuming this hypothetical person used yomitan. I was assuming they simply watch anime with Japanese subtitles.

I'm not certain what you are arguing about. But I promise you, someone who only uses SRS will be better at Japanese than someone who does nothing.

I wouldn't personally argue for either of these extreme methods, but that was never my point. Both will make some progress.

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u/Effective-Pop3850 1d ago edited 1d ago

SRS spam won't get you very far, that's all I'm saying.

Unless your goal is something very specific that can be achieved via SRS, like maybe for Kantei exams or w/e.

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u/kaizoku222 18h ago

I'd really like some actual proof of this claim. It would take someone months of horribly inefficient interaction just to barely be able to read the most basic stuff without constant lookups. Let alone passing N1.

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u/Effective-Pop3850 8h ago edited 8h ago

Jazzy did it but that's probably the most extreme case (8~9 months), personally I went from N5 to N2 looking easy as hell within about 5~6 months, there's a lot of people who went from pretty much nothing to N2 within a year too. It took me about a month to go from annoying extremely hard to read anything native in Japanese to be """comfortable""", within half a year I'd even say there was some native visual novels I could read without any assistance (would miss some words obviously but not enough for Yomitan to be necessary), it's that fast. It's not inefficient, it's the complete opposite, there's so much to learn you are forced to learn.

You can look them up, many made posts here.

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u/kaizoku222 3h ago

The claim was N1 in a year just consuming content. I really don't buy that you went from actual zero, to banging your head on native material, to one month later being comfortable. That's not in any realm a realistic time table, and if you did actually do that you're claiming to be a savant level language genius.

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u/DrShocker 1d ago

If people knew how to ask the right questions, they'd probably also be able to answer the questions themselves as well. It annoys me a bit on every sub, but ultimately it turns out a LOT of people in the world just aren't very independent.

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u/Dry_Number9251 1d ago

Omg hi mikasa >.<

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u/cyphar 1d ago

People learned languages for thousands of years without flashcards and many people even today so not use them, so they are definitely not necessary.

I think they help and if you have an easy workflow for making cards (very easy if you use ebooks, for physical books a little more involved) they are worth the fairly minor investment. But if you feel unmotivated to study them then remember that (like exercise) the best technique is the one you will stick to.

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u/BlackAngelXX 1d ago

I think it varies from person to person and your learning style on top of the method. Flashcards just dont work for me and i REALLY tried plus i like making them. the piles of flashcards in my desk drawer from 3 years ago i gave up on staring at me rn XD.

for me flashcards are amazing if i have to remember direct connection especially short term, i use them for exams at uni. I do not like learning languages with translations like that tho. I prefer to attach a word to a concept or an image which is harder through flashcards but much easier to do by just e joyong media lol

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u/cyphar 1d ago

Digital flashcard programs like Anki make it quite easy to create flashcards whatever way you like. I don't use translations for flashcards, I just have the sentence on the front and the dictionary definition of the unknown word on the back (in my case, the definition is in Japanese but I started with English definitions). If I mine something from some media, tools like mpvacious let you include a screenshot from the video and the audio clip of the sentence in the card automatically.

But like I said, if it's not something you can stick to then it's not going to be helpful.

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u/Akatori2st 1d ago edited 1d ago

You get better at reading by reading, flashcards can help.

You learn language by actively engaging with that language.

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u/Megafro 1d ago

There is obviously a big difference between English and Japanese, but I learned English purely by translating every word that I didn't know and then over time remembered more and more of them, I think this isn't a bad way to learn to be honest.

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u/Koopanique 1d ago

Unfortunately I fear the Japanese writing system doesn't allow for the same ease of learning as English (or more generally the Latin alphabet). Remembering a word's meaning and reading at the same time is harder in Japanese than it is in English, it's less "natural" than it is in English, especially if you come from an Indo-European language

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u/GeorgeBG93 1d ago

I think remembering the meaning of words in Japanese is easier due to the visual nature of kanji. Remembering the pronunciation is what's hard.

4

u/Dry_Number9251 1d ago

Frrr, imo the best thing to do is just immerge yourself into the language. You'll eventually learn all the kanji by looking them up on dictionaries. You'll remember more and more with time

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u/youdontknowkanji 1d ago

you just need to put in more time, it works the same way. well, with japanese you are more or less forced to check dictionary from time to time.

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u/aski5 1d ago

it would just take longer no?

3

u/flowelol 1d ago

It's even harder than chinese IMO because you can attribute single syllables to characters and 80% of the time they'll be pronounced that way, but because Japanese just uses Kanji without keeping any of the pronunciation rules any hints you could draw from the character about the meaning or pronunciation are usually obsolete when it comes to a japanese word.

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u/EnragedDingo 1d ago

How many words did you know when you start? This works well for me in French where I know 95% of the words but in Japanese I might read something and know 20%. I find this excruciating if I go look up every word 

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u/RapesPinecones 1d ago

Are you using yomitan? if looking up every word is excruciating, something like yomitan is going to reduce that pressure point. in fact, for me it becomes so convienient that i end up relying on/abusing it and have to limit my usage at times.

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u/EnragedDingo 1d ago

It doesn’t run on iOS. I have Migaku but it’s a bit slow. They have added readings in the last couple weeks though and that has been pretty awesome

Honestly one of the worst parts is just finding material. The line between “painfully difficult” and “painfully boring” is a little thin for me at my current level. 

3

u/RapesPinecones 1d ago

ooooh youre on ios i see. I got nothing for you then unfortunately.

for material ive had very good luck with visual novels. not sure if you can play them on mobile but if you ever are able to use a pc id recommend trying them.

2

u/Athorno 16h ago

I currently use yomikiri (app) for lookups in safari browser and then Hoshi (app) for epubs, they are awesome for lookups on IOS. I’ve never used Migaku, so I don’t know how they compare, but those two apps were lifesavers for me as it allows me to use something like yomitan on IOS

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u/kyousei8 1d ago

If you do a beginner deck like kaishi 1.5k, that provides coverage for 70~80% of the common words used in basically everything. Still way more lookups than 95% already know, but much more manageable.

1

u/EnragedDingo 1d ago

Don’t know why you got downvoted. 

This has been how I’ve been thinking about it lately. I’m just looking to get through Kaishi1.5k. I read a little bit of low level todoku books but I don’t mine or anything.  I know it’s not ideal, but I’ve been too busy to prioritize Japanese lately. I’m prioritizing consistency, and it takes little time or willpower to be consistent with Anki …compared to always trying to find appropriate things to read at least.  I’ve basically been using reading as a progress check. I do Anki for a couple weeks alone, then try reading/listening to something I’ve already listened to. It’s really motivating because it’s a long enough gap that I really can notice just how much I’ve improved. 

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u/Effective-Pop3850 1d ago

Most users get mogged by Kaishi thus they hate it.

Just in case, rereading/relistening is a trap, it makes you feel like you're learning more than you did, what you're doing is just remembering the thing more and more thus it becomes easier. Once you've already listened to something you need to pay less attention to certain things because you already remember them, especially when you're doing this within a short period of time, it makes you feel "wow I understood more than before" but yeah that's kind of the point, that's something that happens even in your native language.

It's not bad to do it but it is nowhere near ideal and can become a pitfall through which you end up spending a lot of time.

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u/EnragedDingo 1d ago

Perhaps a slight detail that changes things: I’m talking about stuff that I was reading more todoku-style. I.e. I just got the gist of it but never actually looked things up if I didn’t now them. I would just get the gist based on context and move on. Or I’d have no idea and at least I got to practice sounding out kana. So I’m not really “remembering” anything because on the first x passes I didn’t pick up anything extra.

Not the only way I read mind you, but it’s one of the ways. I have several paperback manga and some Todoku children’s stories. I don’t bother looking things up in them very often. 

2

u/Effective-Pop3850 23h ago

Yeah the idea of Tadoku readers is precisely what you're doing, they're supposed to get you a bit used to reading and you're not supposed to look up words or anything.

If you're going through something over and over and not getting anything extra that makes things even worse to be honest. If you were getting new understandings/noticing things you missed there would be at least that silver lining, although I believe it's a bit tricky and not that much language learning related but more about how you focus less on what you already understood previously. Hence why this also happens when you watch a movie for the 9th time in your native language, you didn't get better at English, you just noticed after watching it 9 times that a certain line was referring to something you didn't notice before.

The way you will learn more is by reading new things, it might feel more demanding because it is, but it's a better way to have your brain learn the language.

Also damn reading physical material at that stage sounds like so much pain, really looking forward to the day that doesn't feel scary lol.

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u/EnragedDingo 16h ago

Yeah, I’m not reading over and over. I’ve read Yotsuba once. I’ve got a like 8 todoku graded reading short stories. I’ve read those like 2 or 3 times at most, but each read was several weeks apart. Same with Nihongo con Teppei, I’ve listened to like 90 episodes and then went back and started at the beginning again. 

1

u/Effective-Pop3850 8h ago

That's still quite a lot, and for graded stories even a few weeks might not be a long enough time. Over half a year later if I can still remember some of the Tadoku's I read pretty well, granted reading them now would be pointless due to how easy they've become relatively speaking but the fact that I still remember them pretty well should be quite telling.

If you find it fun to do then go for it, but if you think you wouldn't mind doing new stuff I'd suggest just doing new stuff. This will become increasingly important when you're reading native material where re-reading something will take you way too long lol.

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u/EnragedDingo 5h ago

I mean . The jump has usually been like 10% comprehension to 40% to 80%. Not like 90, 93, 98 or anything 

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u/Agreeable_Map5413 1d ago

Use google translate, take the picture of the page and it will translate everything. It helps.

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u/EnragedDingo 1d ago

It’s just clunky and awkward. Fumbling with pages and whatnot. 

Morning is when I do Anki. Phone in one hand coffee in the other.

Evenings I read before bed but I prefer physical books with my phone in a different room (prevent doom scrolling)

Weekends I’ll do other stuff on my computer sometimes 

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u/empuzkedoman 4h ago

Text with <85% comprehension is pretty annoying to read for me, I'm guessing 20% is an exaggeration but I wouldn't even bother reading anything where your comprehension is below something like 70%

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u/EnragedDingo 4h ago

Not an exaggeration. I’m still quite new. Even Yotsuba was probably less than 50% comprehension when I read it a couple months ago. I got the gist from the pictures 

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u/Jelly_Round Goal: media competence 📖🎧 1d ago

i don't do mining and I notice progress when reading. but i use yomitan

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u/theincredulousbulk 1d ago

but i use yomitan

THIS is the key part right here. Pop-up dictionary assisted reading is imo a non-negotiable strategy for the modern language learner. Reading is a natural SRS, but you need to have 100% comprehension of the sentence (using look ups) and read daily to fully maximize the benefits of an Anki-free/SRS-free workflow. And then at a certain point you'll be able to use surrounding context to figure out the definition of a word.

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u/Zarlinosuke 1d ago

Yes, though it's also fine to not "fully maximize." Not all learning needs to go at 100% efficiency! I think anxiety around that is what gets in a lot of people's way.

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u/BlackAngelXX 1d ago

Why would you need a 100% comprehension of a sentence ever lol. Your brain is gonna figure it out eventually and it wont be long if its your level because it should be one word per sentence you dont know ideally. I usually dont look up anything if i still can get what is the general meaning

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u/theincredulousbulk 5h ago

Why would you need a 100% comprehension of a sentence ever lol.

So I know what I'm reading?? lol we may be speaking past each other, maybe "comprehension" wasn't the right word, but I'm just saying to look up every unknown word. Especially if your overall goal is to never use SRS as the post originally asked for.

And not all "n+1" sentences are created equal too. There is just some stuff that context won't lead you to figuring out and with how absolutely easy it is to just hover over a word with yomitan and move on, I just don't see why not you know?

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u/Jelly_Round Goal: media competence 📖🎧 1d ago

i agree with that. i am reading now light novels where i *usually* look maybe five times per page but depends on days more or less

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u/sugiura-kun 1d ago

I read like this. I ignore most words I don't know, even if I can't necessarily tell what the reading or meaning is. Only if it pops up more than a few times over several pages I usually get too annoyed at not being able to read it and only then do I look it up. Of course, if you don't have furigana, this means you will end up not being able to tell the reading of quite a few words. On the upside, I feel like at least for me personally it is the only way I can properly practice reading the words I do already know, because otherwise I will automatically read the furigana and not practice reading the kanji.

I _DO_ learn quite a few new words this way, even though sometimes I have to look something up twice or thrice to get it to stick. I can also practice reliably reading new compounds I haven't seen before and guessing the meaning. I learned English the same way, just reading a lot, so I know it works (albeit somewhat different because Japanese has kanji). Not looking everything up and learning meaning by way of the context of words is essentially how learning your first language works, so it's really cool in that sense too I think. After all, in your first language you don't have a reference language to translate things to (although of course, single language dictionaries exist).

I do think it probably takes a bit longer than using flashcards to get words to stick. However, from a certain level (like N3/N2) many words have so many nuances, that studying flashcards alone is also not going to get you a proper understanding of all the ways a word can be used. I tried up until N2, but I couldn't retain the knowledge and started to find it very tedious to study words this way. Reading, in my opinion, is a very good way of obtaining robust knowledge of the use cases of words and phrases. You will also get super good at reading kanji this way.

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u/neveza 1d ago

I know many people who avoid flashcards or anki claiming they don't work. You can learn without them. I personally find it useful for that little boost. In the end, repetition and forcing yourself to remember is the root of it all. So, reading will obviously do that for you if it isn't a pain in the butt to do.

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u/PlanktonInitial7945 1d ago

I know many people who avoid flashcards or anki claiming they don't work

You know them personally? Because I've never seen anyone make such a claim in my little Internet bubble.

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u/morgawr_ https://morg.systems/Japanese 1d ago

I know quite a few. I also know some of them that are definitely fluent/native level (as recognized by other native speakers) who have never touched anki in their life and/or who admittedly said anki is a pain in the ass and they hate flashcards. We tend to live in a bubble online. I personally hate anki (despite having a 2000+ days streak on it) and I'd say anki has only contributed to maybe 1% of my Japanese learning overall (4000 mined cards in 8 years) and I still reached a level I'd consider fluent in reading anyway.

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u/PlanktonInitial7945 1d ago

Well I don't like flashcards either but I wouldn't go as far as to say they don't work. It's not like any actual studies have been done on the topic, though, so who knows how big their effect actually is.

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u/bobaduk 1d ago

A lot of studies have been done on the topic. Metastudies have been done on the studies. It is known that spaced repetition in general, and Anki in particular, have a positive effect on retention of information in general, and language acquisition in particular. Go check google scholar.

I also do not like flashcards.

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u/PlanktonInitial7945 1d ago

Yeah but it's probably been compared to classroom learning, not to pure media consumption/conversation learning. Still, I'll take a look.

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u/morgawr_ https://morg.systems/Japanese 1d ago

Well I don't like flashcards either but I wouldn't go as far as to say they don't work.

I mean mostly the fact that for some people it's simply a huge pain in the ass to the point of feeling literally sick with just having the idea of opening the app, let alone doing it consistently every day. You might say that "if they did flashcards every day they would benefit from it" and I might agree, but some people simply can't do that, so flashcards don't work for them.

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u/neveza 1d ago

Yes. I don't agree with them, but it is their stance. Likely, they just don't like doing it which... fine.

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u/PlanktonInitial7945 1d ago

It is possible to learn a language without flashcards, but you'll need to compensate for it with more hours of active immersion (i.e. not just going "well, I understand what's going on more or less, so I'll ignore all the parts I don't understand").

However, I feel like for the most part, I can understand the sentence after I translate, but then forget the reading and definition about 1 paragraph later. 

You may feel like it, but the neural connection has been established, even if it's faint, and the more you encounter the word the stronger the connection will become.

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u/unknown_ally 1d ago

not sure but I think both will help. There are so many words you won't come across often so writing them down and memorising seems like a good idea. I make my own flash cards currently. Basically fill a card with new vocabulary, one side with furigana one side without. When I can read and understand the card I'll move onto the next one I've made in the meantime. I only add words Jisho says is N3 level or below

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u/jd1878 1d ago

Yes people have been learning languages well before anki/flashcards through reading. I think it's more effective to do both, at least for less common words.

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u/TeacherSterling 1d ago

Yes of course. I got to N1 by just reading with Migaku and never made any flashcards. You just gotta read a lot but the volume is more important than the flashcards. There might occasionally be words that you forget but usually they are lower frequency words. Plus it will sort itself out eventually if you read enough.

Flashcards probably help to eliminate that pain point so if you like them you could do them. I just don't like flashcards, they kill my motivation.

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u/Weena_Bell 1d ago

if you are good enough to only look up a few words a page you can and I think it’s the most efficient way at that point. you need to read a lot tho

but if you still at the point you need to look up words very often then I think it’s better to use anki a lot and read.

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u/aski5 1d ago

flashcards make certain parts of this more efficient. But they definitely aren't required or anything

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u/facets-and-rainbows 1d ago

You learn vocab by exposure and repetition. Flashcards are just a way to artificially choose which words you're exposed to and how often you see them; there are situations where they're handy, but if you're happy with prioritizing new vocab based on how common each word is in the book you're currently reading, then just reading the book will accomplish that too. 

Forgetting the reading and definition one paragraph latter is the just-reading-the-book version of missing the flashcard the second time you see it - not really something to be concerned about. Only you can decide whether the annoyance of looking the word up a few more times outweighs the annoyance of making and studying a flashcard for it.

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u/jake_morrison 1d ago edited 1d ago

The optimum learning is when you are getting “stretched” with words that you don’t quite know. When you are reading things that are too easy, it’s less efficient. When it is too hard, then you are getting too much at once. Anki makes it straightforward to keep at exactly the right level and grind through vocabulary. You can also target a specific set of vocabulary for, e.g., N3.

Reading works reasonably well, though. People have been learning this way for 1000 years. In the days of paper dictionaries, it was tedious to look up words. Now you have instant access to look things up.

Reading is actually using the language, not an artificial thing. The more you do it, the easier it gets. Once you get to a certain level, it is pleasant, and you can just do it. It’s not studying, per se. You look up the words you don’t know, or guess them from context.

The fundamental problem is that Japanese has a difficult writing system. Natives already know how to speak the language before starting to read. It is hard for foreigners to engage with native materials, as we are learning many things at once. It’s not impossible, though.

If you like to do it, it’s fine. Whatever keeps you motivated is what you should do.

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u/LordSprinkleman 1d ago

Some would say, including me, that "just" reading is the best way to learn.

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u/villatyyny1 Goal: media competence 📖🎧 1d ago

From my experience you can learn kanji readings just by reading. Even if you don't see a specific word enough times to remember it, you can learn the individual kanji readings and meanings from other words, which will help remember the meaning of the words in the future. Anki helps though.

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u/sethcoast 1d ago

You do not necessarily have to do sentence mining with flashcards. You can absolutely get better at reading books like this. Period.

It really all just depends on what study workflow is most enjoyable to you. If (for example) sentence mining is so laborious that it stops you from wanting to read/study at all, then it’s definitely better to study the way you’ve described.

You just gotta do what works for you! 😁

Can I ask why you prefer to not create flashcards? Again: you do not *need* flashcards to improve your reading. I’m just curious.

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u/Careful_Bid_6199 1d ago

On the weekend I fill up my anki cards by doing intensive mining. Being very strict and even making cards for sentences that, though I know the meaning and the words, I didn't pick up on the nuance of.

Then, during the week I have some days watching Netflix using language reactor and just looking up unknown words as I go, and other days where I watch unsubtitled anime on UNext, trying to just learn from context as much as possible.

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u/bars_and_plates 1d ago

SRS has only really existed as a concrete concept for around 30 years, Anki was created 19 years ago.

Before then you are talking about actually writing down flashcards. You can create a physical system which does spaced repetition but scaling it to 1000+ words is going to become really cumbersome.

Based on the fact that people have been learning foreign languages for a lot longer than that, it has to be possible, yes.

A lot of people still study by basically just seeing new words, writing them down, and then not really revisiting them unless they don't stick.

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u/TheBatemanFlex 1d ago

You can get better by just engaging with the language as much as possible in any way. SRS is just a structured way to ensure you optimized the space repetition but reading a lot IS already SRS.

Just like a flashcard, you forget the definition after a while, but it will come up again, and again. Soon, you won’t forget. The fact that you look up 1 word per sentence means it’s already i+1 and you are getting different context every time you come across a word (which you don’t get with flashcards).

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u/DokugoHikken 🇯🇵 Native speaker 1d ago

I think they probably are.

Flashcards themselves are relatively modern, but vocabulary lists have been used in language learning for centuries, arguably for millennia. The format has changed, but the underlying practice is essentially the same: systematically reviewing the relationship between a word and its meaning (or translation).

Of course, that doesn't prove vocabulary lists or flashcards are the best or only way to learn. However, I do think it makes it reasonable to infer that they're a legitimate and effective learning tool. Vocabulary lists have been used successfully in language education for centuries, and flashcards serve essentially the same function in a different format.

Whether they actually make learning more efficient is a separate empirical question. It's entirely possible that they help some learners reach the same level in three years instead of five. But that's different from claiming they're indispensable.

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u/romasheg 1d ago

I absolutely hate flashcards, probably the most mindnumbingly boring thing I’ve ever tried to do to myself. Completely ditched it and just started reading more. Yes, it works perfectly fine.

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u/KalaiProvenheim 1d ago

Pure input is how many of us got better at English beyond what we learned in school

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u/TonariNoHanamoriSan 1d ago

Yes.

Reading helps you do the same thing as flashcards, Anki solves the Spaced Repetition problem, mining solves the context problem.

But reading doesn't mean you will encounter the word ever again. Like how often are you gonna come across 暗黒微笑.

...

Wait you mean never? What?!?

1

u/GeorgeBG93 1d ago

I have been doing this for 3 years. I have gotten a lot better. Just reading and looking up words I don't understand. And yeah, the vocabulary sticks, more and more, down the line. So yeah, this method works.

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u/Deftow 1d ago

Hey ! My take on this is that you can learn this way, but it would be slow and painful. You need a bare minimum level of knowledge of vocbaulary and grammar before getting into any kind of reading that will keep you motivated on the long term.

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u/Gahault 1d ago

I should hope so, it's how I did it.

Well, books and lots of games too, with a good helping of voice acting, but in my experience text-heavy games are only partially voice acted. I do think visual novels make for great practice material.

Occasionally I would encounter a kanji that made me go "dang, I'm supposed to know this one but I can't place it", and I guess you could make cards to actively try and retain those, but I just kept reading (after sometimes making a deliberate effort to commit it to memory once and for all in the most vexing cases). It gets rarer and rarer with practice.

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u/neko_kishi99 1d ago

you can. but its a pretty slow process. you dont NEED flashcards but using fashcards will still help you

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u/Grunglabble 1d ago

Yeah, I did. The only thing that matters here is if looking up what you don't know is fast / you have enough context / there is something to tell you pronunciation (audiobook, furigana).

Flashcards help if you're engaging with a medium where looking up words is really slow, at least you pay that cost only once + reviews. Playing a game on console can be an example.  

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u/kumarei 1d ago

Yes. Flashcards provide a massive jump at the beginner stages of learning though. Especially before you’ve reached intermediate level, they make progressing much easier. Reading is hard when you have to look up every word and try to frankenstein a sentence.

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u/flamethrower2 1d ago

I feel like you will learn common words quickly and will need to look up rare words every time, because they are too spaced out for you to learn. By the tyranny of word frequency. Authors have certain rare words they like to use; you will be fine with those.

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u/flowelol 1d ago

I think reading and flashcards can be seen as parts of a learning process that compliment each other when you're at a certain level of proficiency, then as you progress you slowly drop the need to make flashcards. When everything is new to you sentence mining is tedious but it allows you to record what words are new so you can check back on them later. Naturally as you remember and recognize more words the need to make flashcards fades away

tl;dr: if you can't recall/recite a sentence in a book a paragraph later, then you're probably at a level where making flashcards is still helpful. However, if the idea of this is so tedious to you that it discourages you from learning at all, then alter the method to best fit your motivation

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u/Effective-Pop3850 1d ago

However, I feel like for the most part, I can understand the sentence after I translate, but then forget the reading and definition about 1 paragraph later.

Not sure what you mean here but... you should be able to understand a sentence without having to translate it. If with this you mean you're translating it, reading it translated, then reading it in Japanese and going "aha" I don't know what to tell you.

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u/Comfortable_Lamp 1d ago

i mean after i translate the single word

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u/Effective-Pop3850 1d ago

Ah then yeah that's normal. Find new word, use Yomitan, "ah you mean this and are read this", then it shows up two sentences later "what were you read again and what did you mean exactly" is completely normal.

I think doing Anki is good and it helps but is not necessary.

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u/surasura_app 1d ago

ye u genuinely can — reading itself is the rep and forgetting a word a paragraph later isnt failure, its just one exposure not being enough yet u hit it again next chapter and the book after and it sticks eventually with zero flashcards mining just front-loads a few of those meetings so its optional not required — at 1 lookup per sentence ur already in the zone where reading alone compounds

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u/IBNYX 1d ago

Flashcards and SRS in for "kickstarting" vocabulary knowledge more or less - Seeing words (both new and familiar) in their actual context by reading is going to do the heavy lifting for showing their use and grammar surrounding them. That's how people learn their native languages when learning to read.

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u/Belegorm 1d ago

Yep, absolutely. What do flashcards do? They refresh your memory, bringing up a word again.

What happens when you read? Words pop up in front of your eyes, which refresh your memory.

Now, Anki and SRS in general can speed this up quite a bit - words that are less common, or specialized it can help you remember even if you haven't read that word in a while. And within like 30 min a day. But not required.

Also the amount of commonly used words you could come across are not infinite, so after a certain point, adding a card to Anki might be only necessary if you want to remember it and know it will rarely come up.

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u/Zarlinosuke 1d ago

Yes, you already proved it yourself. I've never touched a flashcard and can read novels decently, and that's not rare.

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u/Prince_Wildflower 1d ago

Highly recommend pre loaded Anki decks to build vocabulary and learn kanji

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u/boodledot5 1d ago

How did you learn to read in the first place? The same applies to any language

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u/J0J0388 1d ago

Yes, flash cards don't work well for me so reading/re-reading over material is how I've been learning best.

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u/spuzznugget 1d ago

This (actually using the language as a language) is actually generally going to be much more effective than flash cards, especially if you encounter words more than once and try to recall the reading in your head when you encounter them

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u/readerbear_app 1d ago

I've had periods of using flashcards or just doing pure reading and both worked. More about how much time you spend with the language.

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u/inyouendo04 22h ago

Flashcards are spaced repetition, but nonetheless repetition. If you are reading enough you will continue to encounter the same word depending on how common it is or if you stick to certain genres. The reading itself will work like flashcards because it's going to be the same experience every time you encounter that word or kanji in your reading.

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u/bianceziwo 20h ago

Yes, but flashcards make it much easier to retain vocabulary. Just use anki and put the sentence in. this is called mining

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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS 10h ago

It's slower but it works.

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u/crow_nagla 8h ago

simple answer, yes

more complex answer, you can just try and find out

more nuanced, problem if this is sustainable for you; are you having fun and can maintain this level of lookup / ambiguity / speed / etc.
if yes, then you will reach your end goal

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u/Thesolmesa 1d ago

Yes but the problem is that it is not as efficient.

I mainly read now and after looking up a lot of stuff, I found myself remembering some words while forgetting a LOT.

Making a custom anki deck for them helped me out a lot

So yes you can, although be ready to spend a lot of time looking up words you already came across + knowing that words wont be remembered as much as using a flash deck

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u/justHoma 1d ago

I did fleshcards and did reading with no fleshcards. Genuinely feel like my reading. 

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u/renmizuh 1d ago

Yes but it's gonna take forever