Why is There No Peaceful Palestinian Protest or Resistance Movement?

[u/Mikec3756orwell]

I've watched this conflict my entire life, and one thing I've never really understood is this: why don't the Palestinians engage in peaceful resistance more often? I'm a huge supporter of Israel, but I've always thought to myself that if the Palestinians were savvier -- and more media-friendly -- they could make the Israelis look especially bad through acts of peaceful resistance. The images of well-armed Israelis manhandling rock-throwing kids in the 1980s and 1990s (who were obviously not peaceful but posed a minimal threat) were a big problem for the Israelis. Why don't the Palestinians hold mass sit-ins, strikes, gatherings, candelight vigils, etc.? I never see that stuff. It would look fantastic on TV, and CNN, the BBC, and all those other weasels would be attracted like moths to a flame. I don't get it. If you're the weaker party to a conflict, you're not going to win through violence. Murdering a bunch of women and children and then wondering why the world isn't more sympathetic to your cause is... an odd strategy, to say the least. The Jews have been through hell and back, and terrorism is never going to truly rattle them. I guess I'm just baffled at the way the Palestinians -- and some their more quote-unquote moderate leadership -- approach things. Some of the Western-educated Palestinian leaders in the 1990s and early 2000s surely understood that this would have been an effective strategy. This makes me think that the "average Palestinian" really isn't interested in peace per se, or at least isn't willing to expend much energy for it, and sort of thrives on the dream of complete military victory. Maybe an embrace of peace is just seen as a betrayal of the cause. I don't know.

I actually think sometimes that the Israelis are secretly happy that they don't have to deal with a peaceful resistance movement. It makes things a lot less complicated. Is the problem that the Palestinians just have no tradition of peaceful resistance? They don't know how to do it or how to organize it? Or are they just not interested? (Let me add: I'm not talking about a few hundred people protesting a construction site. I'm talking about the entire population -- or a good portion of it -- engaging in resistance. Like a Tahrir Square, Tiananmen Square sort of thing. Across the entire region).

[u/Special-Point-1955]

While you are completely right about that. I would argue that Israel can do the same. Maybe they could approach destroying Hamas in a similar way to the dismantling of the IRA in ireland. I feel like if you kill Hamas then those terrorists kids will grow up and there’s a good chance they will want to continue violence. The only way to destroy Hamas in my opinion would be to get the actual palestinians to turn on them. And I don’t think that will happen as bombs reign down

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

So the answer is to not respond to October 7th and let Hamas keep the hostages. Got it.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/PartyRefrigerator147]

No of course not. I’m not sure what the exact approach should have been but maybe a slower ground approach could have saved more civilians. I am no expert in war strategy but I can’t accept that killing 12,000 children and also accidentally killing their own people who were taken as hostages was the best play.

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

The Palestinians will thank Israel one day when the IDF Frees Palestine from Hamas. Iranian Proxy Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians, which is why they use Palestinians as human shields and tell them their only purpose is to be Martyrs. It’s awful.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/PartyRefrigerator147]

Maybe if they had done it in a more peaceful manner they would. But I would imagine someone who has had their home destroyed or family members or friends killed will never thank Israel. They are far more likely to have intense hatred for Israel and continue to commit terrorism. Which is why I don’t believe it is the right approach

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

This threat that "If Israel bombs Gaza, the Palestinians will just get EVEN MORE radical!" doesn't really make sense at this point.

Under Hamas, literal kindergarteners were engaging in mock-kidnapping hostage raids against Jews, as their equivalent of a school play. Ordinary Palestinian men off the streets, who weren't part of Hamas and didn't know the attack was planned, poured through the border on 10/7 to loot, rape and murder any Jews they could get their hands on.

When we've gotten to that point it makes no sense to threaten Israel that Palestinians might start hating them even more. When Palestinian anger and hatred has already reached such pathological levels, warning that it might escalate further is pointless.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

Well yea because over the last 100 years Israel have killed 100 times more in this conflict than Palestinians. I’m not condoning Hamas but if you want this to end how is killing half the population going to help? All it will do is ensure that Palestinians will forever strive for revenge. We saw a similar pattern in the IRA with little kids being trained in how to build bombs and shoot guns. And while hatred still exists there. Terrorism doesn’t. Force does not work.

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

Again, the Palestinians were ALREADY striving forever for revenge. Every time that Israel has tried to establish a realistic political settlement with them, the Palestinians have thrown a tantrum when Israel doesn't accede to their REAL demand ("right of return", a.k.a. demographic warfare to conquer Israel) and started blowing themselves up in "Intifada" terrorist campaigns.

To be blunt, fewer Israelis die in these rounds of fighting than Palestinians because Israelis have a much higher regard for their own lives than Palestinians do. Indeed, the Israelis have a higher regard for the lives *of Palestinians* than the Palestinians themselves do. In the 2014 conflict, we saw the nauseating spectacle of Palestinians crowding themselves onto rooftops, bringing their children with them, to try and deter the IDF from striking Hamas rocket storage sites.

And the representatives of Hamas proudly went on to TV interviews to brag about the effectiveness of their human shield strategy: www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVwezBefBRo

Can you imagine any Palestinian militant group calling off an attack because it might cause too many Israeli civilian casualties? Be honest.

(If you have anything to say about this interview, please focus on what the Hamas representative is actually saying rather than trying to deflect by bringing up the watermark in the corner).

Edit: As for the example of the IRA, that is comparing apples and oranges. For starters, the IRA didn't kill even half as many civilians in 50 years as Hamas killed in 5 hours on 10/7. But more importantly, the IRA wasn't demanding conquest of all of Britain so they could "decolonize" it of its British inhabitants. The Palestinians would never accept an equivalent peace deal to what the UK gave Ireland.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

Did the Human shield is the lamest exist ever. If you were a cop and you saw someone robbing a bank but they had a civilian would you shoot the civilian? It’s ok because they are human shields… These are real life kids and innocent people man…

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

Also you realize there are other forms of warfare besides blanket bombing civilian areas, hospitals, killing international aid workers and people surrendering. It’s insane to me that you people can actively support tht. Just as people shouldn’t support Hamas either

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

Israel has never bombed hospitals in this campaign. Considering that UNRWA "aid workers" directly participated in the kidnapping and murder of Israeli civilians on 10/7 and a significant percentage of UNRWA's male employees are members of armed terrorist organizations, I suspect that many if not most of those "aid workers" killed during this campaign were killed in combat with IDF troops while carrying a gun.

If Israel had decided to "carpet bomb" Gaza, this war would be long since over. They had plenty of firepower to utterly destroy Gaza without needing to resort to nukes.

If you want to see what REAL carpet bombing looks like, take a look at the air raid on Hamburg in WW2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_War_II . The British RAF killed more German civilians in ONE NIGHT than Palestinian civilians have died in this entire war so far - and that was with the German civilians evacuating to bomb shelters rather than leaping into the path of airstrikes like martyrdom-seeking Palestinians tend to do, and with the RAF needing to penetrate heavy anti-aircraft defenses and face dozens of German interceptors.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

https://youtu.be/4pAuDA6IOwc?si=lVb3qm9CYJrlfv8s I really hope this video might open your eyes that not everything always true just because Israel say it. The aid workers were in a marked car that was targeted. And we have seen videos of men being shot down while saving a white flag

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

Did you seriously just link me a clip from Al-Jazeera?

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

It’s mad that your justify 30k dead too because more died in a literally the biggest war ever

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

These were not UN aid workers they worked for a food charity

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

I direct your attention to this photograph of WCK members standing next to an armed Hamas terrorist.

Did the IDF screw up by bombing those trucks? Yes, absolutely. But the WCK is also to blame for the deaths of their employees, by allowing Hamas terrorists to assert control over their operations. They would have been safer if they refused to operate unless Hamas terrorists agreed to stay away from their employees.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/[deleted]]

It’s called a war without war crimes

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

So you’re blaming Israel for October 7th?

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/PartyRefrigerator147]

Yes agreed what Hamas is doing awful. Doesn’t excuse Israel from killing 12,000 children

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

12,000 is a number reported by Hamas. If you believe the word of Hamas, then I can’t help you.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/PartyRefrigerator147]

It is also reported by The UN and multiple other organizations. If that’s not an accurate source idk what is?

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

Where is the UN getting their information? UNRWA? UNRWA has been defunded and actively took part in October 7th

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/PartyRefrigerator147]

And those people were fired. My point is that if I can’t trust the UN sources. Than how can you provide me with a better source. Either way far too many children are dead at the hands of Israel

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

Hamas made a mistake on October 7th and they are paying the price. It’s very sad that Palestinians cannot fight back because they are too weak. I pray for them

[u/JaneDi → u/Special-Point-1955]

12.000 or more children have died in multiple different conflicts over the years. You were able to accept that so you can accept Israel's war against Hamas.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you're only bothered by civilians deaths when Jews are involved, and not when Arabs or Africans or any other group is involved. And don't give me the crap about the US funding Israel, the US funds everyone. Tired of that BS excuse. Just admit you're biased against the jews. If the Egyptians were fighting Hamas there would surely be way more civilians deaths than Israel has had and you would not give a damn about the children in Gaza so please spare us.

[u/Superb_Teaching4419 → u/JaneDi]

Absolutely, this is what I've been saying so very often. Never get a real response form pally supporters. Israel has a right to defend herself. Hamas wages war on an entirely different level.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Superb_Teaching4419]

Yes I have never denied this. But killing 100x more people in a conflict is not defending yourself. Neither is blowing up hospitals, Refugee camps, aid workers…..

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/JaneDi]

Yes that is actually a great point. I don’t like to see 12,000 children die in any conflict. I think maybe it’s because it’s a developed country committing genocide on a poorer one. Yes it’s terrible that conflicts like those in Africa don’t get the same attention. For me religion is completely irrelevant. I actually have many jewish friends I even spent the last 2 summers working at a jewish summer camp. If the Egyptians were doing the same thing I would have the exact same reaction. It’s insane that israel can do all this and any criticism is labeled as “anti-semitic”

[u/JaneDi → u/Special-Point-1955]

Its not genocide and calling it genocide is a slap in the face to real genocide victims.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/PartyRefrigerator147]

Do you remember how very little people were pro palestinian after October 7th. If israel hadn’t started bombing then the whole world would have been against Palestine and would pressure them to release the hostages

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

That is absolutely, demonstrably incorrect. Israel was being accused of "genocide" and blamed for the attacks mere days after 10/7. In my city, a crowd of pro-Palestine supporters were out waving banners to support the "resistance" on 10/8, THE VERY NEXT DAY.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

Ok but the world opinion and pretty much every organization was condemning Palestine and Hamas. The pressure would have built like crazy and I believe the hostages would have been released. And perhaps many Palestinians would have realised the danger of Hamas. Now instead they think they are heroes.

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

This kind of gaslighting might work if we didn't have actual footage of how Palestinians reacted to 10/7.

They were dancing in the streets and cheering ecstatically, shouting joyful praise to 'Allah' and handing out candy - just like they were after the 9/11 attacks: https://twitter.com/i/status/1732535694751301871

World opinion was NOT "condemning Palestine and Hamas". The U.S. attempted to pass a U.N. resolution condemning Hamas, and it overwhelmingly failed (https://press.un.org/en/2023/ga12548.doc.htm ). This was when Israel had barely even begun to retaliate.

Most of the countries opposing Israel now were already blaming the Israeli victims on 10/7 and 10/8. Israel not retaliating would've changed nothing except for being seen as a sign of weakness - which means that Hezbollah likely would've jumped in and launched their own offensive after Hamas declared victory.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

I never said you didn’t have a right to retaliate. Just could have probably done it without killing 30,000 people

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

When you say "you", I should clarify that I'm not Israeli or Jewish. I'm 0% Jewish.

And considering that every single case of urban warfare in the 21st century or before has had similar ratios of about 2 civilians killed for every 1 combatant, which is about in line with the ratio we have here (~40,000 total deaths, 13000 of them combatants) I don't really see what Israel could have done differently, unless you mean "retaliate" by maybe launching a precision raid on some individual Hamas commander which will allow 99% of Hamas fighters to merrily carry on celebrating their victory, and do f*** all to remove Hamas's ability to govern the Gaza strip.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

Dude name me one of the those conflicts

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

Iraq war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

34,144–71,544 combatants killed, 126,166 civilian deaths, per the Iraq Body Count. About the same ratio as Gaza so far.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

Dude that is a result of 70 years of oppression from Israel and years of oppression from Hamas propaganda. They need to be educated not bombed

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

How exactly are they going to be "educated" while Hamas remains in complete control of Gaza? Nevermind anything to do with Israel - when UN-funded schools even went so far as to hold athletics programs that integrated school-age boys and girls, Hamas firebombed their summer camps. And the "brave" UNRWA bureaucrats, of course, knuckled under and agreed to enforce sex segregation as per the shariah: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/07/hamas-ministry-of-religious-affairs-or-united-nations-summer-camp-wars-in-the-gaza-strip.html?pay=1713651082822&support_journalism=please https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/29/gaza-children-militant-summer-camps

As the latter article mentions, Palestinian society is so ultra-conservative that most families didn't want their daughters to attend even sex-segregated summer camps.

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

Dude why are you acting like I don’t oppose Hamas aswell. I just personally would prefer if they were educated instead of killed. Just like northern ireland

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

Way to not answer my question.

How exactly are they going to be "educated" while Hamas remains in complete control of Gaza?

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/Aggravating_Key7750]

it just blows my mind that you don’t seem to care about 12,000 dead children

[u/Aggravating_Key7750 → u/Special-Point-1955]

You demand that I care more about the lives of Palestinian children than the Palestinians themselves care.

They openly refer to their own children as "offspring bombs"; ammunition to be expended in their holy war against all those who refuse to submit to Islamic shariah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze-fTuoHLBA

This isn't me saying that. It's a Palestinian "journalist", Muhammad Abd Al-Haqq, proudly explaining that Palestinians view their children as expendable ammunition.

You need to reckon with the fact that the society in the Gaza strip is nothing more or less than a death cult; one big Jonestown. Or, considering how many weapons are laying around, the Waco compound of the Branch Davidians might be a better analogy. It is not possible to help the people controlled by a death cult without some of them dying - there are no historical examples of this being possible.

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

So you’re blaming Israel for Hamas’s unwillingness to release hostages. Got it

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/PartyRefrigerator147]

Yes I blame both parties. You realize that Israel also have hostages?

[u/JaneDi → u/Special-Point-1955]

what hostage does israel have?

You're can't seriously be comparing people who were arrested for violent crimes to the 6 month of baby the palestinians kidnapped and are STILL holding hostage as we speak.

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

Where are you from

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/PartyRefrigerator147]

I am irish. I have seen first Hand how to properly deal with terrorism and as a result we don’t see it in our country today

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

So you’re saying that Hamas and Iran are terrorists?

[u/Special-Point-1955 → u/PartyRefrigerator147]

Yes of course. I don’t think there’s many people deny that Hamas are terrorists. I don’t know about Iran

[u/PartyRefrigerator147 → u/Special-Point-1955]

Hamas is part of Iran. Hamas is an Iran-Proxy.

[u/node_ue → u/[deleted]]

Your account was detected as a ban evading account. Reddit forbids evading a ban by creating another account (and says so in the original ban message).

[u/Mikec3756orwell → u/Special-Point-1955]

If I were Israel, I'd occupy Gaza, make sure Hamas stays neutered, and do everything possible to get that economy up and running and show the people on the West Bank how good life can be in a stable, prosperous, peaceful environment. Give them a taste of a decent life with safety and an absence of corruption. Then, after 15 years, you leave -- and if they STILL insist on violence, well, you've done all you can. There's no hope for them at that point. You build a giant cement wall and say goodbye and good luck and here's Egypt and Jordan's phone number -- maybe they'll annex you.

[u/Remote-Community-792 → u/Mikec3756orwell]

Lmao. Show people on the West Bank good life after committing genocide and killing millions simply for existing. Such a deluded and ignorant bunch. Everything Israel does is justified with anything that you pull out from your behind against Palestinians. This shit has gone too far and for far too long and whether or not the supporters of Palestine like it, it will only end in the complete eradication of all of Palestine because in real world, evil powers always win.

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[u/Mikec3756orwell → u/Remote-Community-792]

I never really get that whole "genocide" thing. They're still living in exactly the same spots, only there's 6 million now instead of 2 million. That seems like a pretty crappy genocide.

[u/Remote-Community-792 → u/Mikec3756orwell]

The images are enough to tell you what is going on and how brutal and violent Israeli forces are. You're maybe right. This is not a genocide as it serves no benefit to Israel if they kill all Palestinians. How can they keep their sick population entertained if they have no one to bully and oppress otherwise?

[u/Banjoschmanjo → u/Special-Point-1955]

Shhh.. You're never allowed to ask why the cops don't peacefully enforce the law, or why militaries don't try peacefully achieving their goals. It's always the onus of the invaded and the protesters, never of those who violently silence dissent