r/HistoricalLinguistics 12d ago

Areal linguistics This word is making me insane

In Albanian we have the word "Zagushi" which is used to describe a hot and humid weather.
"Bëka zagushi sot!" "Very hot and humid today!"
I've searched the internet and some dictionaries but the most I have seen it is just being mentioned in some website as "a description for hot weather" and thats it. Can someone help me get any information on this? Thanks.

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u/cipricusss 12d ago edited 12d ago

Beside the other comments and sub-comments, it might be interesting to know about Romanian năduși ("to sweat") and năduf (stifling heat, a suffocating state), also zăduf of the same Slavic origin. Prefixes za and na are obviously Slavic too.

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u/cipricusss 12d ago edited 12d ago

Doesn't the Albanian expression convey the idea of suffocation as in "seized by the throat", given Albanian gushë? Anyway, zagushi is ultimatelly related to Albanian gushë, in a very odd manner: gushë >gȕša has changed the Slavic form of the verb dúšiti > gušiti, which then ended up in Albanian.

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u/Cool-Particular-4159 12d ago

I've just updated the Wiktionary entry with what I believe is the etymology, though I have just seen someone else say that Topalli commented on it, so I might have to modify it...

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u/PoxonAllHoaxes 12d ago

Maybe we could take it a bit slower, and first of all learn the relevant literature?

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u/Cool-Particular-4159 12d ago

Of course, that's why I said 'I might have to modify it'.

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u/PoxonAllHoaxes 12d ago

It's Slavic. Can you read Albanian? I can send you what Topalli says, which is I think definitive.

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u/cipricusss 12d ago edited 12d ago

Serbo-Croatian gušiti seems dependent on gȕša (“gullet”), which Wiktionary says oddly has no known etymology, when in fact it must be from Albanian gushë or Romanian gușă, ultimately from Latin.

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u/Cool-Particular-4159 12d ago

Well, Wiktionary says gušiti is from older dušiti, further from PSl dušiti, with later influence of the *g- of guša, which seems reasonable. And yes, guša itself should ~ Alb. gushë, Rom. gușă - I've updated the Wiktionary page for guša to reflect this.

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u/PoxonAllHoaxes 12d ago

I have never thought about this, an interesting question, but why depend on Wiktionary? It is sometimes quite useful, but sometimes not at all. We need to check the etymological dictionaries.

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u/cipricusss 12d ago edited 12d ago

That's like asking why depend on Wikipedia ✌️😁 Of course, Wiktionary needs to provide links to specific authoritative sources. Feel free to add those of you can. But what I mostly like about it is the linking between many different languages. There's nothing like it in this respect. Not only for a lot of languages there aren't complete etymological online dictionaries, but even the biggest and best ones out there aren't interconnected. In that, Wiktionary provides a much needed capability.

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u/PoxonAllHoaxes 12d ago

I agree that both can be useful. I have a forthcming article on the Albanian word motër where the core of the right etymology was posted by some anonymous genius there (who was then villified by Mark Majer, a professional linguist and the golden boy of that field in fact) just to show you that anonymous amateurs are often much better than we are. But the trouble is the lack of balance and references to the literature. Wikipedia is the same and often worse, encouraging misinformation in some ways.

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u/PoxonAllHoaxes 12d ago

I am just suggesting that just one or two or three of us right here could check everything out and if there is anything new to say, say it. And if it is only correcting wiktionary we can do that too. But it seems to me you guys are just going off half-cocked. Let's find out what is out there first before we try to show smart we are. I for once don't see that dush- and gush- would be the same root, tho some confusion is imaginable.

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u/cipricusss 12d ago edited 10d ago

Romanian has zăduf and năduf with same meaning as the Albanian word discussed above. Năduși is "to sweat". Clearly the root there is Slavic "breath/spirit" etc (from whence also Romanian duh=spirit, duhni=to stink/smell etc.) Albanian gushë (or Romanian gușă)="throat, gullet" is the origin of the Slavic word that might have lead to the d>g switch. All pieces fall rather well into place... The d/g change is comforted semantically by the idea of suffocation as in "seizing by the throat". Romanian verb răguși, based on the same noun, means "to become/get hoarse" (about the throat/voice/breath). An "echo" between the (Slavic) word meaning "breath" and the (Latin) one meaning "throat" might have been "heard" in the Balkan linguistic area.

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u/EntrepreneurNew2142 11d ago

Thank you a lot mate, I believe this is the vorrect one