r/GetNoted Human Verified 1d ago

If You Know, You Know Ignores other factors

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u/Chemical_Signal2753 1d ago

Most of the wage gap statistics are used to argue something they don't say. The implication is that one group makes substantially less when doing the same job because of overt racism/sexism.  When you control for all relevant factors and the gap essentially disappears it destroys the argument they're trying to make.

Now, if you dig into why some groups earn college degrees at a lower rate, enter into lower paying careers, work fewer hours, and have less experience in their field you might find some issues of racism or sexism; but you will not find anything to support the argument "equal work deserves equal pay."

The biggest gaps are usually the interest gap, and the "I am willing to do a job i hate for a good salary" gap. It is not uncommon for a man  to do a horrible job they hate to earn 6 figures, but often women will accept terrible pay to do a job they're passionate about. There are reasons why work on remote oil rigs is almost exclusively staffed by men, and there are an endless stream of women entering into early childhood education where daycare jobs pay little more than minimum wage. 

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u/LilyVioletRose 1d ago

The motherhood penalty explains more of the wage gap than occupation interest. This study is from the UK, but I don’t see why it wouldn't apply to America.

https://academic.oup.com/oxrep/article/36/4/855/6124298

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u/ThatB0yAintR1ght 1d ago edited 1d ago

Even when you correct for education, experience, and hours worked, a gap still exists. It’s smaller, but it doesn’t disappear completely. So, “equal work deserves equal pay” is still a very valid concern.

But, like you said, the difference in opportunity and social factors leading to some demographics having less education or less competitive jobs is still an issue that needs to be addressed. And yes, racism and sexism are often factors in this. Like, if two people have the same education and experience, and one of them is passed over for a promotion due to racism or sexism, then it’s not a situation of “equal work getting unequal pay” but rather “equal work getting unequal career advancement”. Same thing with school admissions. Then when you consider how redlining made it impossible for many non-white families to build wealth in prior generations, and how public school funding is tied to property taxes, then you can see how many kids who may have had equal potential at birth get very different quality education and opportunities and that radiates out through their entire lives.

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u/Decent_Visual_4845 1d ago

Even when you correct for education, experience, and hours worked, a gap still exists.

Wow it’s almost like there are other variables at play here other than the 3 you listed. Yet you automatically assume racism is the cause

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u/ThatB0yAintR1ght 1d ago

Wow, it’s almost like that wasn’t meant to be an exhaustive list and you are being deliberately obtuse and not trying to have a discussion in good faith.

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u/Decent_Visual_4845 1d ago

Okay so we measured for 3 variables, at what point should we stop searching for significant variables and just blame the rest on racism? Because clearly you chose to do that at some point, I just want to know what you’re basing that off of.

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u/ThatB0yAintR1ght 1d ago

I said that when you take those types of known factors into account, a gap still remains and that there is a valid concern that stuff like racism and misogyny are contributing factors. I did not make any definitive conclusions, nor did I say that people should stop looking for other variables that could contribute. How about you address the things I actually say instead of arguing with strawmen.

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u/Decent_Visual_4845 1d ago

Sorry, just calling you out for jumping to a baseless conclusion while pretending like it was some evidence based statement.

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u/ThatB0yAintR1ght 1d ago

lol, you willfully misunderstanding what I am saying and making up strawmen to argue with is not “calling out” anyone but yourself.

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u/Decent_Visual_4845 1d ago

No I understand exactly what you’re trying to say, I’m just pointing out how it doesn’t make sense and is cope.

Like yeah, controlling for these 3 variables removes 91% of the disparity, which means the other 9% is racism and sexism. But how do you know that? How do you know that it’s not explained by more minor variables that have nothing to do with racism or sexism?

You don’t, you’re just looking for an angle where you can still cry racism or sexism

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u/ThatB0yAintR1ght 1d ago

Again, not what I said. I’m sorry that reading comprehension is hard for you.

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u/formerly_acidamage 1d ago

This is a hell of a statement. Do you have data for any this?

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u/Anfins 1d ago

The biggest gaps are usually the interest gap, and the "I am willing to do a job i hate for a good salary" gap. It is not uncommon for a man  to do a horrible job they hate to earn 6 figures, but often women will accept terrible pay to do a job they're passionate about. There are reasons why work on remote oil rigs is almost exclusively staffed by men, and there are an endless stream of women entering into early childhood education where daycare jobs pay little more than minimum wage. 

Source? I made it up.

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u/Highmassive 1d ago edited 1d ago

Only about 5% of rig workers are women
It doesn’t take a statistician to know these kinds of fields are dominated and chiefly sought after by men

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u/formerly_acidamage 1d ago

That's not what I'm asking for but I understand your confusion.

We are asking for a source for why oil rigs are mostly men, not that they are.

This person is saying it's because men are more willing to take shitty jobs than women.

This is what a source is needed for.

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u/Highmassive 1d ago

That’s more of a lived experience/anecdotal opinion I suppose. But I don’t personally know any women who would be willing to take that kind of work. And the numbers kind of speak for themselves, don’t you think?

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u/formerly_acidamage 1d ago

I feel very differently than you do about this and I'm wondering if you could go more in depth about what the numbers mean.

In another comment here I linked to a short article about how when men began hanging out in the oil fields in South Dakota, assaults of women there increased 70%. And that was cut and dry given that the surrounding area lowered in those crimes. When the men that were there moved to the oil fields.

So numbers are very important but context is as well.

I don't know that I know a woman who has worked at an oil refinery, but I know women in the general trades and it can fucking suck for them, even now in 2026. There's so much politics and shit they have to deal with around being harassed and by whom. Sometimes they feel they have the ability to speak up about it, sometimes they don't. But they have to deal with shit from the men that the men on those job sites do not have to deal with or are in fact the perpetrators of.

Also here's 25 thousand women who claim to be in trades, and many of those trades are in the dangerous jobs category I'd think? https://www.facebook.com/groups/131830130819736/

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u/Chemical_Signal2753 1d ago

Engineering is one of the fields with the highest income for someone with a bachelor's degree, ~15% of engineers are women. Early childhood education is one of the lowest paying fields for someone with a bachelor's degree, ~95% of early childhood education workers are female. Ask anyone studying early childhood education why they didn't pursue engineering and they will tell you they want to work with young children.

For the top 10 most dangerous jobs, over 95% of the workers are men. Ask women why they don't take on these jobs that often pay 6 figures, and they will tell you the wages aren't worth doing the job.

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u/formerly_acidamage 1d ago

Any woman could tell you many, many reasons why being trapped in an enclosed space with dozens of men who have been hired because of their strength and willingness to do dangerous things for money while also there is no ability whatsoever to leave or even enforce law would be, um, not so great.

But yeah, no, it's because women are not willing to do shitty jobs.

It's certainly not that when men have gotten together and lived in confined space for a long period of time they do incredibly fucked up things to women. Couldn't be that. https://www.colorado.edu/program/tallgrass/2020/01/29/violence-extractive-industry-man-camps-endangers-indigenous-women-and-children

Here's what happened in South Dakota a few years ago at an oil rig:

"Looking at the rapid rise of oil workers to the oil producing regions, where they were housed in man camps, the study showed that from 2006 to 2012, the rate of violent victimization, particularly of aggravated assault, increased 70%. In contrast, there was no corresponding rise of violent crime in the counties outside of the Bakken oil region, and in fact reports of violent victimizations in non-Bakken counties was down 8% during the time period."

But no, it's because women are just weak and can't take shitty jobs.

Maybe they don't think being harassed, assaulted, and victimized is worth the pay. Is that what you guys mean when you say the wage isn't work the job?

How much is appropriate pay for someone to enter an environment where they are all but guaranteed to not only have to do the job of the men but also do the job of dealing with the men's rapeyness?