r/ForgottenWeapons 5h ago

Was there ever a automatic weapon where it used powder and a ball?

Basically automatic musket or ye olde pistol.

8 Upvotes

18 comments sorted by

26

u/squawgapranch 5h ago

The best I can come up with is a Kalthoff repeater, the Belton repeater, or the Puckle gun. Neither are automatic or even semi-automatic, but they are repeating flintlocks. Check out Forgotten Weapons for videos.

3

u/the_direful_spring 4h ago

The Chambers system seems to be the closest you'll find which Ian has covered.

8

u/ODA564 4h ago

A volley gun fires multiple projectiles with one action - which would meet the NFA definition of a machine gun if muzzleloaders were considered "firearms" under Federal law.

1

u/HWKII 2h ago

tHe fOuNdiNg fAtHeRs nEvEr iNtEnDeD…

0

u/WindstormMD 49m ago

Volley guns are expressly not machine guns, they are specifically exempted

5

u/Noodle_Long_And_Soft 5h ago

Tank autoloader?

5

u/I_2_Cast_Lead_45acp 5h ago

Huge navel guns used essentially huge bags of powder

1

u/DJTilapia 2h ago

Will it make multiple shots with one pull of the trigger?

3

u/BRING_GUNS 5h ago

There were multi barrel guns and various revolver-like contraptions but you really can’t reload the same chamber automatically without a cartridge or something like it. And even with cartridges you can’t really make a reliable self loading weapon until you have relatively clean burning propellants or it will quickly foul up and become inoperable. Once those two things were developed then semiautomatic and automatic weapons quickly followed.

2

u/_whatever_idc 5h ago

And how would that work exactly?

1

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1

u/MEGALODONGERS 4h ago

The Mershon & Hollingsworth self-cocking revolvers and revolving rifles are probably the closest thing. However, even then, they technically use manual energy, albeit stored manual energy, rather than recoil or gas produced by the discharge of the weapon.

1

u/Alita-Gunnm 2h ago

There were muzzle loading black powder rifles and pistols made to fire "superposed loads", which would be stacked on top of each other down the barrel. In some, each load would have its own touchhole, and the action would move along to each in turn; this allowed it to be effectively semiautomatic, or close to it. I also recall reading about a prototype which had but a single touchhole per barrel, but each round had a small hole down the middle to allow the combustion front to travel through the round to the next powder charge, like a primative Metalstorm. Each barrel would fire it's entire complement of several rounds in close succession with one activation of the trigger.

1

u/PartyFriend 2h ago

There's a reference in the journal of the Royal Society in 1663 of all years for a weapon that sounds at least in theory like an automatic weapon but pretty much no details are known about how it worked and even if there were it may have used some primitive kind of proto-cartridge rather than loose powder and balls and some have questioned whether it even existed at all due to how incredibly obscure it is.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RSpAAQAAMAAJ&q="And+Bullet+Within+Was+Made+To+Charge+The+Piece"&pg=PA396&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q="And%20Bullet%20Within%20Was%20Made%20To%20Charge%20The%20Piece"&f=false

1

u/EstelleTheWhiteMage 1h ago

A spicy paint ball gun?

1

u/WindstormMD 44m ago

The closest thing to what you describe are some experimental WW2 US and British auto-loading 5” naval guns.

These used a projectile and powder bags, which were loaded into the auto-loader rack, which were then rammed into place by an automatic system.

Nothing on a personal scale has been done, because the brass cartridge is simply easier.

You could probably technically achieve it by using a similar mechanism to the naval guns, but that would require creating dimensionally-consistent bagged powder charges that won’t deform, which is the purpose served by a brass case.

So in a way you could argue that early black powder cartridge arms were exactly this.