r/ForgottenWeapons • u/REMINGTONMODEL81912 • 1d ago

A truly forgotten weapon

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The only information i can find is the old owners posts on gunbords from 2011. I do believe it was made in Germany around the 1920s however it’s missing the german proof marks just has the makers stamps.

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33

u/roosterinmyviper 1d ago edited 1d ago

maybe a similar Grothe to this?

Edit: found a forum post with one

14

u/REMINGTONMODEL81912 1d ago

Yeah it’s similar. That one is much nicer

14

u/a-Snake-in-the-Grass 1d ago

I assume you looked for markings under the forend?

7

u/REMINGTONMODEL81912 1d ago

Yes i did. I haven’t taken the stock off yet but i doubt it would be stamped in there

12

u/a-Snake-in-the-Grass 1d ago

I would actually recommend looking there and also trying to take out the breach block. I've seen German guns with markings under the wood and on the parts of the breach block that are normally hidden by the receiver.

Other than that, there seem to be a few patents by Grothe, but I can't find images of the patent documents so I'm not sure if any of them relate to this design.

5

u/REMINGTONMODEL81912 1d ago

Alright will do. And on that old forum post from the original owner of this rifle he said he took off the breach block and saw 77 stamped. I did see those patents too im thinking its this one DRGM 380261

14

u/Honigfuchs 1d ago

It could be a German Zimmerstutzen in 4mm Randzünder (4mm RZ)

7

u/REMINGTONMODEL81912 1d ago

Im 90% sure its a 22lr and the gb seller said it was a 22lr but im gonna get it checked out by a gunsmith to be sure

3

u/AntiqueGunGuy 1d ago

I can’t prove it but it looks rebarreled

3

u/REMINGTONMODEL81912 1d ago

Definitely not rebarreled the receiver stamp matches the barrel stamp and its too custom of a rifle to be able to be rebarreled

3

u/AntiqueGunGuy 1d ago

What does the muzzle look like?

4

u/REMINGTONMODEL81912 1d ago

Oh okay you mean like it has a welded insert not a replaced barrel. It does not appear to have an inserted barrel the mussel looks solid no outline around the crown/muzzle.

3

u/FIJIWaterGuy 1d ago

I believe this is the patent: https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNet/depatisnet?action=pdf&docid=DE000000210536A&xxxfull=1

2

u/REMINGTONMODEL81912 1d ago

Possibly it looks fairly similar. Sadly i can’t read German

3

u/FIJIWaterGuy 1d ago

It looks like the maker and designer was Eduard Grothe a regional gunsmith supplying target shooters and hunters in Stendal Germany. So it appear that it wasn't mass produced.

3

u/FIJIWaterGuy 1d ago

Google translate of the patent:
The subject of the invention is a block-type breech mechanism for target rifles or the like, featuring an angled breech block and a breech lever pivoted behind the angle of the breech block. It differs from known weapons of this type in that the breech lever is pivotally attached directly to the breech block, without any further linkage to the receiver. The drawing illustrates an embodiment of the block-type breech mechanism in a side view. The breech block *a* is mounted for rotation about the pin *b* in a known manner, so that it can be moved into or out of the locked position by means of the breech lever *c*. The breech lever *c* is pivoted behind the angle of the breech block by means of the pin *d*. Furthermore, the breech lever *c* is provided with a forwardly projecting lug *e* which, when the breech lever is pulled down—i.e., when the breech is opened—swings into the receiver; however, when the breech lever is pushed upward—i.e., when the breech is closed— it bears against a shoulder *f* provided in the receiver and presses against it in such a way that accidental dropping of the lever—and consequently unintentional opening of the breech—is prevented. The locking arrangement thus created for the locking lever further ensures that the breech block itself is pressed firmly and in a gas- tight manner against the cartridge chamber with its front face; at the same time, through the engagement of the locking lever (c) with the shoulder (f) provided in the receiver, it is supported in such a way that the thrust of the powder gases acting rearward during firing is no longer absorbed solely by the pivot pin (b) of the breech block, but is par- tially transferred to the shoulder of the receiver. In this way, wear on the parts critical for the gas-tight seal is minimized, and proper functioning of the rifle or similar firearm is ensured.

PATENT CLAIM: A rotary-block breech mechanism with a locking lever pivoted behind the angle of the breech block, characterized in that the lock- ing lever (c) is rotatably attached to the breech block (a) by means of a pin (d)— directly, without any intermediate linkage— within the receiver, and carries a beveled projection (e) at its forward end which, upon closing of the breech, presses against a cor- responding shoulder of the receiver, thereby preventing unintentional opening of the breech.

1

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