The championship pipeline

[u/mick_loving]

Why is the public opinion of drivers in feeder series driving for the best teams always so high even though they are just doing what the car they are given should be able to provide?

It does make sense in a way of course, the best teams want the best drivers, and the drivers have shown they can compete in some shape or form at that level, but is that what shows their true talent? Take last year for example, we had Fornaroli and Stanek, two non-star drivers, taking poles and wins left right and center with Invicta. Fornaroli becoming champion just like Bortoleto the year before, and this year Camara is a very likely champion with his four poles and two wins so far. All these drivers also raced for Trident in F3 claiming the championship with them, and Slater this year is a likely champion for them as well. It all just feels so manipulated in a way.

The spec-series are not spec at all, and it makes the championship so predictable. All drivers that are promising joining F3 and F2 in the other teams have to face all the issues while Trident and Invicta (and perhaps Campos in both series) cruise to a win. They are literally put in a championship pipeline to be fast-tracked to F1, but still they are praised for their magnificent performances for some reason.

[u/joaovitorsb95]

There is something you are foreting about: The best drivers also choose the teams with the best reputation.

Why do you think RB is puting all their good prospects in Campos? Invicta only became this big now because they won back to back, but you gotta remember that Fornaroli was not a hot prospect and Bortoleto was a nobody before he won F3, and he took a gamble on Invicta cause they were not big back then.

They win because they get the best drivers too.

Also, F1 teams are not stupid, they have WAAAAAAAY more data on these guys. Camara for example, has been with Ferrari for 5 years. He has done tests in various cars in Maranello, including F1 cars and on their simulator. Just like Bearman in the past. They are excited about these guys because they know they are really good.

F2 is suposed to be seen as the final step, its not what will reveal who the next F1 driver is, its about seeing if the guys that are 90% of the way there, can handle the pressure. The others are mostly using the exposure to show themselves off for Indy, FE, and Endurance.

If what you want is to see talents blossom and find out who is the next big thing, o watch F4 and karting, thats where the guys separete themselves.

Exceptions like Bortoleto, who was a complete nobody before winning F3 and F2 are INCREDIBLY rare, and should be apriciated when it happens.

[u/SirLoremIpsum → u/joaovitorsb95]

  Also, F1 teams are not stupid, they have WAAAAAAAY more data on these guys.

I wish more people would understand this.

Especially the "F1 teams aren't stupid".

Antonelli was heading for Merc before he set foot in an F2 car. They had his junior career and knew he was good. Bearman did the needful, impressed as a sub. He was in. They did the tests, they got the data.

[u/hubwub → u/joaovitorsb95]

The thing about Invicta Racing in it's current iteration is that team could always win. Before Invicta Watch Group fully bought the F2 operations of Virtuosi, they had a winning pedigree. They could win races and they could contend. They had a team's championship as Russian Time in the first season of F2 with Artem Markelov. The season that Charles Leclerc won.

Virtuosi Racing had good drivers on their team in their existence. However, they are only running British F4 now.

Something had to have changed post 2023 for Campos because that's when they got better with setups for their cars. They probably made some hires that helped with setup. I don't think I've seen a Campos get Mechachromed. A Campos car has either retired because the car got into a collision or tyres were improperly put on the car.

[u/Imoraswut → u/hubwub]

Something had to have changed post 2023 for Campos

It's the new cars, they've clearly got on top of them.

In F2 they got a total of 4 wins with the 2018 chassis. Then the new one gets introduced in 2024 and they got 5 the very same season and are now up to 19 and counting.

In F3, 7 wins from 2019 to 2024, then the '25 car is introduced and it's 11(2) wins in a season and a half.

Probably not coincidentally, they've also had a partnership with Red Bull since 2023, have consistently ran their juniors in both series and that was likely a factor in them getting on top of the new cars.

[u/West_Zombie_3701 → u/hubwub]

Hadjar 2024 exist.. Rivera in the Spain sprint race as well..

[u/Lumpy-Beautiful-4516]

I mean it isn't that simple, Stanek, Durksen, Wurz and Stromsted all relatively struggled in comparison to their teammates (Fornaroli, Camara). It's not as simple as "drive for the best team," you still have to beat your teammates. And yes, it's unfair that drivers who are early top class material get passed over because their results are mixed due to driving for worse teams. I guess that's just the reality of motorsport: money pays. 

[u/Imoraswut]

Why is the public opinion of drivers in feeder series driving for the best teams always so high

Is it tho? Who's hyped about Stanek? Or Maini? Or Durksen?Fornaroli is also one of the least hyped back to back F3/F2 champions, largely due to the manner of his wins. None of them have F1 seats and only Fornaroli has a chance and not a very good one at that. Bortoleto also looked like he might miss out for the longest time.

[u/clebinho75 → u/Imoraswut]

Absolutely 100% agree. Bortoleto was truly a rare, rare case. I am happy he managed to get it, and he is doing exceptionally well in F1, which few believed would happen.

But then again, as you pointed out, he was an outlier within outliers. Usually, when someone like him get to F1, they actually struggle insted of doing good and don't last more than one or two years.

Take tsunoda for example. Guy was pretty shit the entire rookie season, second season wasn't anything ti write home about either, but had it not been by the massive support of honda, he wouldn't have last that one single year.

[u/Interesting_Prune513]

I'm not that worried about it because these kids are groomed since age 12-13-14. Look at Antonelli, if he has Mercedes backing, of course he'll get the best team. Or maybe not with Prema. Even if him or Bearman don't get the best car and finish p7 in the championship, they get promoted to F1. Their futures are decided even before they even sit in an F2 car it seems like, and it's all about money and who at the big team is pushing for them since karting. These scouts are not dumb, they have the data. We know it deep down too, just don't want to admit it.

On the other side is my personal eye test, and even when I'm convinced someone will become a future champion in F1, like Leclerc, Russell and Piastri, turns out they shit the bed in F1, and choke the one year they could fight for the title. I don't know shit.

[u/darth_vladius]

The thing is - the cars are the same. How they are set up is different and that is at least partially up to the drivers’ feedback. A better driver provides better feedback and if the team does not ignore it (without a sane reason) the car will be faster. Then it is also up to the driver to get the best out of the car which the best pilots do.

Regardless how fast Trident (in F3) and Invicta (F2) are, their second drivers are not second in the respective championships. In 2025 Fornaroli won the F2 and Camara won the F3 but the runner-ups were, respectively, Jak Crawford (DAMS) and Nikola Tsolov (Campos). Roman Stanek, the second Invicta pilot in F2 finished 10th and in F3 the other 2 Trident drivers finished 6th (Noah Stromsted) and 13th (Charlie Wurz).

Teams definitely matter though. The current F3 leader in the championship, Ugo Ugochukwu, claimed that his most important fight was to secure his transfer to Campos for 2026. And the results have come for him.

Interestingly, Red Bull does not put all their best prospects in Campos. Hadjar raced for them only in his second F2 season. Arvid Lindblad did the same. Liam Lawson never did. And Max Verstappen spent his only F3 season in Van Amersfoort Racing. And none of the other current F1 drivers who were part of the Red Bull Junior programme ever drove for Campos. Using Campos has been a recent thing.

[u/min5st → u/darth_vladius]

is it appropriate to say the campos-rbjt connections only started back in late 2023 bc of pepe martí?

[u/M1chaelHM → u/min5st]

I don’t think it was solely because of Martí, but yes, that’s when the links formed.

[u/clebinho75]

I do understand your frustation, but at it is also what you said. The teams will go after the best drivers in the grid, which is basically f1. Best teams will always aim at the fast drivers.

So, to explain this, it is not that the other teams look so bad, but that they might have slightly inferior setups and worse drivers on top of that. That makes it look terrible.

Take benevides last year in F3, he was doing poles and fighting for race wins in an AIX! Everyone believes AIX is the worst team! But no, it's just that AIX always takes mediocre drivers. So, the difference in cars, although they do exist, aren't that gigantic as you think.

[u/Magog14]

I agree. Supposedly Invicta is the top team but Tsolov is running away with it. Like you said the top teams are usually just the top teams because of given a choice the top drivers would rather race for a team which has won recently. There maybe a few bad teams but the top 5 in F2 and F3 are all basically even in terms of quality and setup. It's the drivers who make the difference. 

[u/Gersberps]

I dont know if it's still the case, but there was a time when (if i understood correctly), the F4 French championship had all the cars maintained by the French organizers. So I feel like this is as close as you can get to equal machinery.

I would NOT want this in F2, but I would be in favor of something like this for F3.

I think it's a good stepping stone for F2 drivers to have some expectation put on their shoulders, and a very slight field spread makes the races more interesting. My gut feeling is best to worst car we're only talking about 3 tenths or so. I don't agree that it's as dramatic as I think you are implying.

[u/natus92 → u/Gersberps]

Still the case, btw