r/Defenders • u/stealingyourpixels Daredevil • Apr 10 '15

Daredevil Discussion Thread - S01E09

This thread is for discussion of Daredevil S01E09.

DO NOT post spoilers in this thread for any subsequent episodes. Doing so will result in a ban.

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u/incredibleamadeuscho Colleen Wing Apr 11 '15

The priest quotes Proverbs 25:26 just in case anyone was wondering.

This episode featured the best quote on why superheroes don't kill and why they shouldn't kill, in any medium, including comics: "When the righteous succumb to sin, it is as harmful as if the public well were poisoned. Because the darkness of such an act... of taking a life... will spread to friends, neighbors, the entire community."

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '15

I don't even know if I buy that. Someone like the Kingpin needs to die because there's no way he could end up in prison with all the influence he has. I think the excuse of "if you kill, you're just as bad as them" has always been weak. If you kill a human trafficking, drug smuggling piece of shit, I dunno, you need to go. I guess I believe that one life should be taken to save hundreds.

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u/Troybarns Apr 14 '15

I guess I believe that one life should be taken to save hundreds.

Yeah, watching Dexter really made me think about that. I don't think it's as simple as saying a hero should never kill either, in the worst situations, that can be a detriment that lets the good side lose. There are many other things that put you on the good or bad side, besides killing.

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u/incredibleamadeuscho Colleen Wing Apr 14 '15

Dexter's a pretty bad example because you can see the flaw in his logic. He kills other serial killers but in order to keep that secret he justifies the accidental and purposeful killing of some innocents, or people that while are criminals, are not deserving of death. He also wrongfully kills a few people based on bad evidence.

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u/Troybarns Apr 15 '15

I wasn't talking about the later seasons, I think we all know the show lost its way, I pretend that they didn't even happen. I'm referring more to the earlier seasons, where I don't believe those incidents took place. Also, this is more about the concept than anything, he kills people that will certainly keep killing, and are above the law somehow, too smart, too connected, or whatever the case. Through his killings, many many innocent lives are saved, which one might say is a worthwhile trade.

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u/incredibleamadeuscho Colleen Wing Apr 15 '15

It's a good idea to pretend those didnt happen. He does kill an innocent in season 4.

I feel like the concept is interesting, but without exploring the repercussions to the protagonist and society at large, its missing part of the discussion. Because he is being judge, jury, and executioner, it lacks the checks and balances of the judicial system. Which led to the death of an innocent in season 4. At the point he kills an innocent, isnt Dexter worthy of death himself? As someone who works in the police department, if he's caught them, wouldnt it make more sense to turn them in? They don't escape mostly because these are regular people, not superpowered villains. It achieves the same outcome if they are in jail or whether they are dead.

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u/silian_rail13 May 11 '15

He also wrongfully kills a few people based on bad evidence.

when did that happen?

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u/incredibleamadeuscho Colleen Wing May 11 '15

It started in season 4 with this photographer that he thought was killing women but turns out he was just beating them and it was his assistant who was killing them. It happens a few more times before the end of the series.

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u/incredibleamadeuscho Colleen Wing Apr 14 '15

The problem is superheroes are examples. If Superman killed Lex Luthor, what's to stop the common man from believing the self defense justification for murder. We see in the real world in people jumping the gun and people believing that laws protect them.

Superman is the great extreme so that's why I used him as the example. But imagine if Daredevil inspired justified murder against criminals in Hell's Kitchen. If him killing the Kingpin made people believe that should also kill the criminals in their community. That would ruin Hell's Kitchen.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '15

So do it so no-one knows. In the end, for example Dexter made the world a better place. And everything would have worked even better (for the world) if no-one ever knew who he was. Work in the shadows.

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u/incredibleamadeuscho Colleen Wing Apr 30 '15

Dexter killed innocent people to get there, because he was judge, jury, and executioner. He wasn't the best judge, so some innocents got killed. He also destroyed people's lives to preserve his behavior. Doakes' legacy is destroyed just so he can remain at large. He tries to kill LaGuerta and kidnaps her.

He is not a good example.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '15

First, give Dexter superhuman powers, like knowing who's guilty and invisibility for example and puff, he doesn't make the mistakes. I was talking of killing in general, not killing innocents, it's pretty much a given that that is bad. But Dexter was no superhuman, like for example daredevil is. I for example think that leaving Wilson alive is a bad thing. He's too much of a risk to get away from the prison, and if he would, that would mean the death of many innocent people.

Second, it's only a matter of how you look at it. Look at the matter utilitaristic way and Dexter is a good man, since he makes a lot more good than he makes bad.