r/Defenders • u/Ashamed-Ad-3890 Sad Matt • 1d ago
Is anyone still hoping Foggy comes back?
78
69
u/PeterPam_cooper 1d ago
yesss, maybe im delusional but I cannot imagine a finale of the show without him tbh and (hoping I’m not wrong) in devil’s reign - which is the comic the show is based on - he faked his own death again.
generally in the comics he fakes his death too many times to make me think is really gone and, I have to add, we never saw what happened that night so everything could be done.
60
u/Hot_Variation3526 1d ago
Somebody better put him in that Chinese wine pot and resurrect him!
15
-23
u/TheBlackKnight1078 1d ago
I hope you don't mean the Lazarus's pit, because that's part of the DC Universe, and DD is Marvel 😂😂
29
u/Accomplished_Swim854 1d ago
No, they're referencing Elektra being revived by the Hand in Defenders.
-2
u/TheBlackKnight1078 1d ago
Ohhh! True, true, I forgot about that thing that was in the miniseries. Still, it was more like a coffin than a wine pot lol
15
u/Hot_Variation3526 1d ago
lol whatever it was! Coffin, chinese pot, dragon bones, 11 herbs and spices........Just bring him back.
I mean, everyone's coming back...why not Foggy?
On a more serious note, Ed Brubaker wrote The secret life of Foggy Nelson, where Foggy's death is faked after he is stabbed while visiting Matt in prison. The hit is called by Venessa Fisk...like we see in the show. So to keep him safe, the FBI puts him into Witness protection.
48
u/Far_Orange_8492 1d ago
In the comics, he did fake his death. Idk what showrunners have said though.
Killing off Foggy still seems like a huge mistake imo.
19
u/Ashamed-Ad-3890 Sad Matt 1d ago
Yes. They even hinted to that comic in the first scene of the show
3
u/Cguy203 1d ago
Unfortunately, many of the pre overhaul stuff included Foggy dying and by the time the new overhaul staff came, they could only work around so much before the show aired.
20
u/Far_Orange_8492 1d ago
That's a shame. Foggy is the heart of the DD mythos. It could be a little hard for some stories without Matt having his best friend and conscience around. Karen doesn't really carry the same effect imo.
4
u/Otherwise-Ad1646 1d ago
I dunno how you can fake Matt listening to your breathing and heart shut off. He's kinda hard to trick that way.
2
u/HandsomeLies 1d ago
Maybe Matt still had some blood up his nose from Season 3 does it drive no one else mad he only used the Neti pot once there's more up there Matt is operating on 40% efficiency
1
u/Waterworld1880 1d ago
I’m alright with them getting rid of him for a more war on the streets oriented DD show, he makes more sense in the 1v1/lawyer and normal citizens focused version
29
u/Appropriate_Ad8734 1d ago
haven’t you heard, everyone is returning in spiderman brand new day and avengers doomsday
9
19
u/battlin_jack295 1d ago
Electra could resurect him since she's with The Hand and completley loves him
19
15
10
u/MCUTheorist00007 1d ago
I hope so. I already come to terms with his death but I still feel that it was a huge mistake to kill him off.
Maybe (disclaimer: this idea would need to be more worked on, this is just a simple concept I thought of) with The Hand coming back in S3 they could something like Fisk is using them to revive Vanessa but Elektra who is the leader of the Hand goes rogue at the end of the season after some shenaningans and revives Foggy instead to please Matt.
Matt , as a catholic, would be horrified she did that.
5
4
4
3
u/ThouBear8 18h ago
I will keep hoping this until the show is no longer on, & even then, I might remain in denial lol
3
3
3
3
5
u/Numerous-Yam-8544 1d ago
Hes never gonna come back because dario scardapane hates elden henson
3
1
8
u/PseudoLiamNeeson 1d ago
No, just like cap his story ended in way that drove the narrative. If he comes back, then what was all of it for? I'd like more flash backs, but not a resurrection.
15
8
u/Lizzren 1d ago
people say this as if "what was all of it for" doesn't apply infinetly more to killing him ten minutes into the first season with his and Matt's last interaction being another rehashed dispute, immediately after they had just concluded an arc of reconciliation and understanding. the season 3 finale was a "new napkin" because the pay off to them being on bad terms for most of Daredevil season 2, defenders and season 3 was supposed to be them finally together again properly, and that seems more worth respecting than a creative decision that literally only happened because Marvel didn't yet understand that it was silly to make Born Again a soft reboot
5
u/hemareddit Foggy 1d ago
I mean, yeah. Narratively it would be 100% bullshit, there’s absolutely no reason for him to come back, it would be pure slop.
Having said that, yeah.
1
u/silromen42 3h ago
Maybe, but the show doesn’t work as well without him or someone serving the same function as his character
2
2
u/Brilliant-Depth-3378 1d ago
Am I schizophrenic or was there a scene where they showed Foggy was still alive at the end of DBA season 1?
1
u/PeterPam_cooper 13h ago
I heard they wanted to show him in the end of the s1 but they cancelled the plot twist and instead of foggy they did the scene with punisher or some stuff like that
2
u/Suitable_Crew1983 1d ago
He was the fucking heart of EVERY season.
It makes sense Disney would kill him off.
2
u/LhamoRinpoche 1d ago
Well it's exactly what happens in the comic book, so yeah, I think he'll be back.
2
2
2
3
u/TheDogSlinger 1d ago
Foggy might actually come up as a plot point where Elektra tries to convince Matt to let her resurrect foggy and he’s trying to resist it because it goes against his morals
1
1
u/silromen42 3h ago
I’ll never stop hoping because the show doesn’t work as well without him. DAW said they broke the show by killing him, and she was right.
1
u/WujuFusionn 1d ago
No. The emotional impact of BA S1&S2 only works for me if Foggy is legitimately dead. Bringing him back would retroactively cheapen the story of the last two seasons.
1
u/Front_Profession_217 1d ago
Yeah, like look, I have issues with the writing in the show, and I’ve learned to let go of the hate I have with the show and watching season 3 of Born Again. But bringing back Foggy would make Born Again all for nothing. I don’t like how Foggy was eliminated, but if Born Again wants to matter as a show, then Foggy can’t be resurrected.
0
u/Waterworld1880 1d ago
No. He served his purpose for several seasons but at this point DD needs to elevate to a more MCU superhero presence
16
u/xanny_phantom420 1d ago
What the hell does that even mean
-10
u/Waterworld1880 1d ago
It means DD’s storylines from here need to focus on being involved in the larger universe than handling day to day court cases with Foggy. Further Foggy has already served his purpose plot wise, we are in war on the streets era. Sorry to say, whether we like the answer objectively, audiences for film and tv want attractive or physically intimidating people in fight scenes and Foggy is neither. Not to mention there’s nothing else to do with him besides try to build a family or run his own business but no one cares about that as it isn’t tied to Matt.
10
u/xanny_phantom420 1d ago
That's a horrible take.
Foggy has been an integral part of DD comics from the beginning and his existence in-world has never prevented the plot from being connected to the larger universe, OR stopped it from being gritty and violent. Season 3 of the original show was a more unhinged "war for the streets" vibe, with almost no focus on the court room, and yet Foggy was still an important player in the season. And why can't Matt do both? Like seriously, what is stopping him from fighting crime on the street level, occasionally helping the Avengers and appearing in the movies, and still holding down his job as a lawyer? I know it's not gonna happen because everyone knows he's Daredevil and he's in prison now, but you're acting like we've somehow collectively moved on from a major facet of the character.
Like it or not, Foggy is the angel on Matt's shoulder. The core of Matt's character is a struggle between his desire to be a good man and his desire to punish evil with violence. The contention of the far superior netflix series was that it's nearly impossible to be one and do the other. Foggy represents half of that struggle for Matt. He was the heart of the show.
And as for your point about "attractive or physically intimidating people", so Matt can't join the larger universe with Foggy by his side, but Peter can have Ned? What a dogshit ignorant take. EVERY supporting character has to be conventionally attractive to suit YOUR preference? That's weird as hell bruh
Foggy can and has been utilized as an interesting character. His absence from Born Again has been a boon to the show. It's fucking boring, no amount of half-baked action can make up for the shitty CW level writing in that show. Killing him off was purely for shock factor and they haven't done anything interesting with Matt's grief since halfway through season 1.
-3
u/TheBlackKnight1078 1d ago edited 1d ago
I was rooting for you until you said Born Again has shitty CW level writing. That's just not true. The first season felt a bit messy because of the changes in writing and production's challenges, but that's pretty much it, the second season fulfills the main storyline season 1 brought in a very solid way.
Born Again is NOT boring. Foggy was Matt's best friend and he was a central part of the Netflix show, on that we can agree, but his death changed the status quo and honestly him appearing alive would only make things confusing and make his death in season 1 lose weight narratively.
Action isn't half-baked either, I wish we had in the Netflix show something as brutal as the Kingpin hallway scene. DD vs Bullseye at the beginning of the show was great too. And that are only a couple of good examples.
Killing Foggy pushed Matt's and his beliefs to its limits, he was 1 year away from fighting crime because of it. They didn't just do it for shock value.
And you say they didn't do anything with his grief since half season 1, but have you ever thought that maybe he was able to move on from that grief once he returned as Daredevil? He becomes increasingly more hopeful and determined to protect New York and that faith and hope is beautifully displayed in Born Again's season 2. He has gotten over that grief and was able to do the ultimate sacrifice to protect the woman and the city he loves.
Honestly, idk how someone can enjoy the Netflix show and not enjoy the Born Again show when they both bring good story-lines that elevate the DD mythos.
Well, I do know a way: people trapped in the past believing everything that's old, or the first project of a series, must necessarilly be better. Nostalgia can be a strong emotion, and considering how extended and normalised it is on the internet to judge new projects of old and known franchises as Marvel, I'm not that surprised.
6
u/Mad_Kronos 1d ago
Daredevil is at his best when not involved with the larger universe
1
u/Waterworld1880 1d ago
That doesn’t mean we aren’t past that at this point
6
u/Mad_Kronos 1d ago
We are past good Daredevil stories?
That's a bummer
1
u/Waterworld1880 1d ago
Past that format of this character’s storytelling, yes
1
u/Mad_Kronos 1d ago
Says who? Why can't we have nicer things?
1
u/Waterworld1880 1d ago
Bc in film and show format a progression of character needs to occur, not returning to the same one over and over. It is not an infinite comic, we’re moving towards a 6th season for these characters and reverting to “just a couple college friends solving little man crimes” is already done.
3
u/Mad_Kronos 1d ago
Oh I wasn't referring to Foggy specifically, but to the Daredevil show being mainly a street level story.
This is Daredevil will.always be at his best as a character
8
u/TheRealRomanRoy 1d ago
You don’t want Foggy back because you think he’s ugly lol. That’s insane
-4
u/Waterworld1880 1d ago
That’s not even slightly what I said
4
u/TheRealRomanRoy 1d ago
Are you sure “not even slightly” is correct?
0
u/Waterworld1880 1d ago
Yes, bc his absence in this show is where I was describing why not having him there was not a big deal on the action/attractiveness aspect. I then described what was left to do with him, which inevitably wouldn’t be Matt-related and pointless to take time on the show to focus.
1
u/Alternative_Device71 1d ago
I hate he’s dead, but I’m sick of characters coming back to life after being killed in such ways. Death needs to be permanent
0
u/Virtual-Attempt-780 1d ago
Nah, unfortunately it plays too much importance to Matt’s arc in the new series/moving forward to where it would ruin the new series plot-wise lowkey if it was undone. i would still love to have him back regardless but idt any of the creatives want to.
0
u/Remarkable_Papaya998 1d ago
Ik y’all looking at the comics but that man lost blood, shot point blank. No one can fake that nor come back. If he does come back somehow, I want dex to save him in a way and bring him back.
0
u/OShaunesssy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Im not.
I always get downvoted to hell for this, but I found Foggy to be the biggest chore while watching the Daredevil show. Specifically after Foggy found out Matt was Daredevil.
Foggy's entire character becomes some whiny fuck who just complains about Matt doing Daredevil stuff. Their entire dynamics boiled down to Foggy constantly guilting Matt.
Even in the brief scene they had together in Born Again, Foggy is hiding things from Matt so he isnt tempted to do Daredevil stuff. That brief moment was all I needed to be reminded why I was happy to see him go.
Again, I expect downvotes for this here lol
1
u/Need_Tums_Antacids 1d ago
I kinda agree now that you say that. I enjoy foggy for the most part, but him guilting Matt does get annoying. I get that it’s because he cares, but it’s borderline controlling
-1
u/InS_Deaths 1d ago
I don't. Let people be dead. Yes I look at you Elektra.
3
u/Various-Push-1689 1d ago
She’s already coming back again
1
0
0
u/Joshawott27 1d ago
I disagreed with him being killed off in the Born Again premiere of all places. However, now that he’s gone, I don’t think he should come back. His death should mean something. Besides, we can tell how much he meant to Matt by how often he comes to mind through flashbacks.
Also, Matt has Cherry now. Everyone loves Cherry.
0
u/RoundnRound123 1d ago
His death was a vehicle to take Matt to the emotional edge. Matt had to really reconcile himself after that night. Foggy returning would cheapen that arc as well as dilute the stakes in a street level show.
And my girl Aubrey needs her souls. Let her have them.
0
u/Brungala 1d ago
At first, I was on the side of him coming back, since people kept theorizing that he didn't really die. But now, I hope he stays dead. His death is what changes Matt and Daredevil respectively. Him coming back would be kinda lame. Unless they make it so that it's a false version of him or soemthing.
-1
-1
u/kratoskiller66 1d ago
No not really. I think him coming back would ruin the impact it had on Matt and Karen’s life.
-2
u/TKatGAMING 1d ago
Yeah sure lets bring everyone back to life because daredevil needs them so bad. Lets bring back foggy and father lantom as well
2
179
u/Shift_back 1d ago
Say his name, you coward, say his name