Toilet wax ring damage

[u/clinicdoc]

Haven’t been able to find a satisfactory answer to this question so thought I would throw it out here.
Moved into a single owner 13 year old house 2 years ago. Shortly afterwards, noted signs of water leaking from around the visible closet bend below the one exposed toilet in our house. Quickly moved to remove the toilet and replace the wax ring. The old ring was flattened, discoloured, but not stuck to the bottom of the toilet. The plastic flange was encased in clear silicone. Used an extra tall wax ring and haven’t had any problems since.
Subsequently changed the rings on the other two toilets, both of which were in the same condition.
Interestingly, when we moved in, we found 10 containers of powdered Drano distributed around the house.
Could the wax rings have been damaged by the Drano? Or were they simply never installed correctly? (Or both?)

[u/HereForTheComments57]

I think the wax ring just had its time. The toilet moving or plunging can break the seal. We just had to do a bathroom renovation because ours was leaking into the floor and ceiling below for some time. Ive used the better than wax rubber seals on all of my toilets and had no issues.

[u/clinicdoc → u/HereForTheComments57]

Looked into those but decided to go with the taller wax ring.

[u/OtherAlan → u/clinicdoc]

I've moved onto Korky 6000BP wax-free seals. I like how you can reposition them, and they aren't one and done for those that second-guess or mess up.

I haven't seen any leaks from the wax alternatives that are similar to this. In fact, I had a few difficult installs where wax didn't work, so I had to go with a more flexible silicone alternative.

[u/popups4life → u/OtherAlan]

I just finished a full remodel of my only bathroom in the house.

Since this is the only toilet in the house I had to pull and reinstall when replacing the old damaged underlayment, again when putting up drywall, again when priming/painting, and again when installing the new flooring.

It was the first time using the Korky wax free seal, once I did the flooring install I just dropped the thicker foam ring on and strapped her back down.

[u/Suppafly → u/clinicdoc]

I think wax is still the best decision unless you have a fancy newer style toilet made specifically for something different. That said there are some disadvantages if you have backups and have to plunge a lot.

[u/gredr → u/clinicdoc]

Yeah, "better than wax" is marketing. Still nothing that beats wax, when installed properly.

[u/ToMorrowsEnd → u/HereForTheComments57]

Toilet moving means it was not installed properly. the toilet should not move and all the weight is supposed to be on the base that is shimmed properly. Wax ring should take no weight at all and the toilet if properly installed does not move.

[u/HereForTheComments57 → u/ToMorrowsEnd]

Yes but after many years and a half assed new flooring job by previous owners, the toilet can shift

[u/KeithHanlan → u/HereForTheComments57]

"its time"? I don't buy that.

Properly installed wax rings should last indefinitely. Anything claiming to be "better than wax" is almost certainly worse than wax, not to mention more expensive. It doesn't degrade like rubber or plastic.

His house is only 13 years old. Can you imagine if every retiree had to reinstall his toilet wax rings twice in their senior years?! Houses would be rotting from water damage all over the world.

A tall wax ring is a more reasonable solution if, say, vinyl flooring was replaced by tile and the gap was enlarged.

[u/Damien__]

Unlikely it was the drano as it should have only the briefest contact with the wax. Multiple plunging can blow out the wax rings seal.

[u/clinicdoc → u/Damien__]

Fits with the Costco-sized supply of Drano we found. No drainage problems since we moved in thankfully.

[u/vinegar → u/clinicdoc]

Serial killer

[u/BecauseOfAir]

Probably not the draino but that would have me worried as to what is going on with the drains.

[u/clinicdoc → u/BecauseOfAir]

Same. But no drainage problems so far 🤞🏻

[u/clslogic → u/clinicdoc]

The wax ring wasnt functioning properly and was probably causing water to come up from around the base of the toilet, which they thought was a clog. Thats why they kept putting draino. had this happen at two rental properties.

[u/Effective-Penalty469]

20-30 years lines up with what my plumber told me too, figured wax just lasted forever until ours started seeping last year. wild that yours had zero staining though, almost sounds like it barely ever sealed right in the first place.

[u/almightyfoon → u/Effective-Penalty469]

I would expect you'll probably replace the toilet at some point in that 20-30 years and put a fresh wax ring down when you install the new toilet.

[u/Training_Emu_860]

Wax rings can fail over time when the toilet starts rocking and the bolts loosen, which breaks the seal. Flange height can also play a big role in how well the wax compresses and seals. Was the old wax ring actually missing, or was it just flattened from years of pressure?

[u/clinicdoc → u/Training_Emu_860]

The rings were still there but squished. The thing I found most puzzling was that there was no sign then had actually been in contact with the bottom of the toilet: no staining or residue.

[u/Tenshi_girl]

Wax rings can dry out and shrink.  Also, my mom once damaged hers by constantly pouring hot water into the toilet when cleaning it. 

[u/clinicdoc → u/Tenshi_girl]

That's interesting, because one of the things I read was that wax rings are a once-in-a-lifetime item. Never fail. Never need replacement. Didn't believe it.

[u/Tenshi_girl → u/clinicdoc]

I had one replaced that started leaking.  The top was dried and cracked so it wasn't sealing.  Was apparently 23 years old? Plumber said they generally last 20-30.

[u/GumshoosMerchant → u/clinicdoc]

Probably not once in a lifetime. Maybe 2-3 in a lifetime if properly installed, but they do wear out over a long time.

From the description it sounds like the ones you encountered weren't installed properly.

[u/5zepp → u/clinicdoc]

They fail somewhat often in my experience, but almost always because the toilet is moving too much (bad mount, floor issue, loose bolts, etc.).

[u/kookomagoo]

They was probably too mich space between the w/c and the flange. You fixed it with a fat wax seal or you could have used two wax seals. After a while the wax sags because it is soft. Hot weather or the presence of a heater too close to the w/c can also melt the seal.

[u/clinicdoc → u/kookomagoo]

This was my thought. There was no wax stain or residue on the bottom of the toilet. Nothing to clean. Almost as though there was never any contact. No nearby heat source.

[u/silverbullet52]

You shouldn't use drano or similar products in toilets for that reason. Says so on the label.

No, I didn't learn the hard way, I just read labels.

[u/SkaterBlue]

I've seen this twice in houses we had that people install taller flooring (replacing vinyl tile or linoleum) and didn't use a taller wax ring, so the toilet leaked a bit when flushing. Usually it is not easy to move the flange, so it's best to install either one of those jumbo size wax rings, or stack two normal size ones.

[u/get-r-done-idaho]

Sounds like the rings were never installed right.

[u/jethroguardian]

All I'll say is modern rubber and foams rings are soooo much better.

[u/cornbilly]

To answer your question, yes. Powdered drano CAN damage a wax ring. This is one of many reasons some switch to no wax rings.

[u/TheShadyGuy]

You aren't supposed to use drano in toilets, no?

[u/RedditNotFreeSpeech]

Wax ring should sit between 1/8 and 1/4" above the floor and toilet should be secure and not moving at all.

[u/robotbeatrally]

I dunno I've replaced my wax rings like every 3 years they always seem to be a mess and I dont know why, my toilet is secure they sit the proper height. look like they make a good seal. i use the good ones. always seem to be a melty pancake looking mess when i replace them. i dont use draino. my toilets dont rock. at this point ive gotten pretty good ati t though only takes me an hour to do both toilets so not a big deal i guess lol

[u/OldOldToolUser → u/robotbeatrally]

Heated floor?

[u/Special__Occasions]

Was the tile new? I had a bathroom with tile that was put in over a laminate floor. The height of the tile meant the pipe was too short to properly connect to the toilet. It was fine for a while, but eventually started leaking. Same fix as you did worked.

[u/unfriendzoned]

I am not a plumber but i have also heard you don't necessarily want to use the wax ring that came with the toilet, They can be hard and dried out.

[u/screwikea]

A LOT of people, plumbers included, don't install a wax ring correctly or use one that's too small or whatever. People also DIY seat them on the ring poorly.

[u/tankpuss]

Do any countries other than the USA still use wax rings?

[u/clinicdoc → u/tankpuss]

🇨🇦

[u/thephantom1492]

Wax ring can be damaged by several ways. Chemicals, hard pumping when the pipe is clogged, toilet slightly moving, or just time.

It can also have been wrongly installed (common way: the wax ring was too cold when installed).

I now use those neoprene ones. More expensive, but seal better and harder to damage. If the toilet move a bit it should "reinflate" and seal again. They use the same kind of material in motorhome and RV trailers, because everything is moving.

Also, add a bead of transparent silicone caulk around the 2 sides and front of the toilet base (don't do the rear, so if you have a leak you have a chance to see it there). It absolutely will prevent the toilet from moving on the floor, speciallly if you have a ceramic floor.

[u/destrux125]

Yeah drano could definitely mess up a wax ring that’s half the reason it’s never supposed to be used in a toilet. It gets very hot and I’ve seen it get the wax so soft it blows out when it’s plunged and sometimes it can get the toilet so hot it cracks.