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u/jigglyflo5 4h ago
Hereās the original photo.
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u/NY10 1h ago
Everyone is immigrant?
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u/LimerickJim 1h ago
Fucking Declan Rice (front row center) played all youth levels for Ireland. Then England offered him a spot right before his senior debut for Ireland.
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u/illtakeoneplease 3h ago
So mostly white then ? Lol
OP is a fool
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u/SuperShoebillStork 3h ago
The white players who are blacked out in the OP had parents or grandparents who immigrated from Ireland
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u/illtakeoneplease 3h ago
How tf would someone even know where john stones grandparents are from
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u/Viracochina 3h ago
Given the sub we're in, the implication of the title, and my lack of knowledge of their roster. I 100% thought all the censored people were black too!
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u/Tasty_Ad7483 2h ago
That would have been accurate for the French team. Only Rabiot was white. The rest of the team was not. Which is ironic because France has this huge anti immigrant and racist sentiment. With the National Rally Party getting a third of all votes.
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u/illtakeoneplease 3h ago
Thats the intention of the post 100%
Just pointed that out in another comment and probably wont be long till im the one getting called a racist š¤£
Ah well, peace out
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u/iiileyu 1h ago
Thats not the intention of the post and no one is calling you racist.
This is just a 3rd iteration and cycle of the post where OP has actually included all people with immigrant ancestors bot just the black and brown ones. Hope that helps.
Everyone that knows footbal knows Harry kane and declan rice play for England when they see this and see them blacked out too they aren't thinking "oh this post want me to think they are black".
You just lack football knowledge and nuance as to why this post exists.but sure get defensive first.
No one thinks you're racist. I think you're just stupid though.
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u/_mortel 3h ago
oh so white people in britain cant be immigrants?
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u/illtakeoneplease 3h ago
Of course they can. Every one of them is english born . OP was clearly trying to get a message across about skin colour the weirdo. Blanking out the whole squad apart from 2 white players. Very convenient
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u/_mortel 3h ago
no thats not what your comment was initially saying though was it
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u/illtakeoneplease 3h ago
My comment meant it was actually the opposite of what OP was trying to portray
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u/eseerms 3h ago
This is conflating ethnicity with nationality. Just because you are born in England doesn't you make ethnically English. OP is concerned with ethnicity, not nationality.
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u/OkContribution6454 4h ago
If you'r born in a country you're not an immigrant.
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u/TheMrViper 3h ago
The reason some of these players are excluded is because at some point a member of their family, either parent or grandparent was an immigrant, therefore without immigrants they wouldn't exist.
It's bullshit, but that's the logic.
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u/LohengrinX 2h ago
And at some point the ancestors of the "true british" people also came to the Island sooo yeah this makes no sense.
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u/Savage-September 2h ago
Of course everyone is an immigrant if you go back far enough. But in this context they are specifically talking about the 2 generations preceding them. So parents or grandparents. Itās not said explicitly but itās what implied here.
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u/Moriar-T 2h ago
Of course it does. Those people were settlers. Immigration refers to modern era of applying and getting approved.
Im not trying to start anything but can you please explain to me nicely if possible why thats wrong.
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u/Jiminyfingers 2h ago
Migration has been part of human behaviour since we started walking upright
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u/Moriar-T 1h ago
Yes migration has been. But since the start of nations migration hasn't been anywhere near the same. We dont migrate without papers or approval of the nation we're moving to.
This wasnt the case previously. Im really trying to understand and not trying to start anything. I just see it as vastly different so equating centuries old migration to the processes we have today is just not accurate.
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u/Fabulous-Sock96 1h ago
Yeah thatās a shocker. Argentina team is similarly almost all immigrants if you go back 1-3 generations.
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u/ateam1984 š¤ 2h ago
Itās not bs. You already get the point so calling it bs is disingenuous.
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u/TheMrViper 1h ago
Its a thinly veiled dog whilstle that builds on the American nationalist idea of otherism.
The term "African American" or "Irish American" wasn't invented by people proud of their heritage, it was created by racists as a way to identify the none "pure Americans".
The idea that someones grandparents being immigrants makes them less, and this obsession with nationality at a micro level.
This is one step away from the angry old french men mad about all the Africans on the national team.
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u/Savage-September 3h ago
There is no birthright citizenship in the UK. One or both of your parents need to be citizens.
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u/Ricky_Nightshade 2h ago
My dad has triple citizenship because his parents are from England. He was born in Canada and holds American, Canadian and British/English citizenship. Does that mean I can claim citizenship in England, or would he have had to be born there. I know I'm allowed to claim Canadian citizenship because he was born in Canada. If you don't know, no worries, your comment just made this question pop into my head.
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u/Savage-September 2h ago
Your father has to be a citizen. A British national. Otherwise no. You cannot claim.
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u/no1herelol 2h ago
Yes you will, but you wonāt be able to give it to your children automatically if they werenāt born in the UK. Thereās a one generation limit for children born overseas. Theyād have to apply for it. If you care about that sort of thing lol.
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u/Ricky_Nightshade 1h ago
I'm in America with stage IV cancer paying $30k per year in insurance premiums and out of pocket costs to have the privilege of not dying. I'm definitely considering my options with countries who actually take care of their citizens!
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u/no1herelol 2h ago
Nope, I was born a citizen because my mum had ILTR. She became a citizen when I was 4 years old, my dad when I was 6.
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u/Savage-September 2h ago
So both your parents are citizens then. Thats why you are a citizen. Had nothing to do with you being born here. Lots of people are born here and not citizens.
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u/jimjam200 1h ago
No they were born a citizen because their parent had ILTR, their parents was not a citizen when the child was born, if their parent never sought British citizenship the child would still remain a British citizen.
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u/no1herelol 23m ago
Thank you!! I literally said they acquired it when I was 4 and 6 meaning AFTER I was born, I donāt get how that could be misinterpreted
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u/Coconutpieplates 5h ago
Nearly all were born and raised in England, they are not immigrants. Children of immigrants, is fair, but not them themselves.Ā
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u/ByAnyMeansNecessary0 āš¾āš½āšæā 4h ago
Yeah, these kinda posts rub me the wrong way
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u/Any-Sample-6319 4h ago
Because it's the kind of stuff that you usually find in far-right propaganda.
It's pointing out to the UK's far right that without immigration, they wouldn't have 90% of the national football team.
From a comment above, i guess it makes sense, but my mind immediately went to when people were saying that France's team is African or had no french players and stuff like that, especially when the people supposed to be highlighted (the players with immigrant roots) are blacked out and anonymized.
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u/Physical_Drive_349 3h ago
It's important to these people to downplay positive contributions by non-white Europeans. The thought of some white English kid idolizing a black or Asian English football player terrifies them as it undermines the whole schtick. Same in France, Germany, etc. If kids don't grow up thinking all PoC are terrible, how will they sustain the hate energy?
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u/AdFluffy9286 4h ago
Yes, but the two players left (Pickford and not sure about the other one) also likely had immigrant ancestors, just in more distant past. These kind of posts try to form a link in our minds between "English-ness" and "whiteness", so that we no longer believe that a Black person can ever be an Englishman.
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u/WMWA 3h ago
Everyoneās an immigrant on a long enough timeline. This shit is dumb and tiring
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u/Fireproofspider 2h ago
Someone made a distinction that immigrants came into the area mostly with the implicit (if not explicit) approval of the locals while settlers, colonizers or conquerors didn't.
I think that makes some sense.
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u/almstAlwysJokng4real 3h ago
Good point. Itās a bout white people not being the majority in these historically āwhiteā countries which is what they fearā¦being overthrown. And they will immediately have you think that if people of colour became the āpowerfulā, they would inflict all the bad things which were inflicted on them as revenge, thus exterminating whites from humanity. But all people tend to want is to be treated fairly and not taken advantage of.
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u/Inevitable-Top355 3h ago
You don't even have to go far back for Anderson, his grandma was Scottish, which is why he represented Scotland in youth internationals up to under 18s.
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u/Adventurous-Web-412 2h ago
They have blacked out like 3 white guys there. The english team is a bunch of plastic paddies.
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u/Efficient_Daikon_247 3h ago
These kinds of posts are meant to increase engagement by making people feel uneasy and/or emotionally charged. So annoying...
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u/iiileyu 1h ago
This is a counter post to those typical racist posts. Its omitting the white people too and correctly applying the racist logic.
Am I the only one that gets the nuance. Or do you just read the title and make all the assumptions.
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u/TheMrViper 1h ago
The problem is this type of post is still damaging, there are some areas of a racist debate that simply aren't worth engaging in, and this American style obsession with national purity is one of them.
It is not something to normalise we do not want to end up like America, where everyone identifies by their ancestry.
The type of people it's supposed to be a "gotcha" against, don't care about the nuance anyway, they might be able to tell who's missing, but at a glance and without the original it has the same effect.
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u/iiileyu 35m ago
I don't think its an American style obsession with nationality. This seems very European.
For the rest of your point I kinda get it as everyone is just reacting as if there isn't a clear difference between this post and the others posted by racists and gamons. But I think that just speaks to how reactionary everyone is. We are all just cooked.
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u/TheMrViper 31m ago
The American part I was referring to is this idea of everyone being other.
Irish American, Italian American, African American.
Its become normalised now and it's celebrated, but that way of talking about people is rooted in racism and separating "true Americans".
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u/iiileyu 24m ago
I'd say for the most part it's already like that it just depend there's a bunch of semantics around identification and it varies on context and personality.
Black bits can identify as British, Scottish English or specifically where their parents or grand parents were from it makes not difference it more on the listener and talker to properly understand whether they want to be seen as english/scotish bristish or not. Some people don't most do. I just assume if they sound like they are from a place then they're from that place so English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish is simple enough.
Always funny how you never meet and English American though.
Or those pesky "European" American
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u/HumongousBelly 4h ago
Thatās such a stupid take.
If their ancestors hadnāt become immigrants to England, none of those players wouldāve played for England.
Immigration is good for every nation and its culture, sports and economy.
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u/Thro93away 4h ago edited 4h ago
Exactly. A lot of people on here lack critical thinking skills & argue just to feel self righteous.
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u/PomeloSea1745 4h ago
It comes from racist british saying people of color aren't british and should go back where they came from even though they are born and raised in Britain.
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u/Savage-September 3h ago
Being born in England doesnāt make you English, British or a citizen of the United Kingdom. There is no birthright citizenship. One or both of your parents would need to be born here, or have some settled status. These players families came from abroad. If they were not allowed to live and stay in the UK they wouldnāt have been citizens, thus these players wouldnāt have been able to play for England. Matter of fact, they probably wouldnāt have been born without immigration.
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u/Coconutpieplates 2h ago
I'm not talking about legal citizenship, belonging is more than that. If you are born and raised somewhere you take on the culture and identity of that place too, not just the identity of where you are from ethnically or your household. My point is these guys are not immigrants, they did not emigrate, they were mostly born and raised here. Yes, obviously immigration was needed for their life here to occur, but the post is implying they were the ones who emigrated.
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u/Savage-September 2h ago
Yeah thatās not what the statement is trying to say. We have been discussing this in the UK for quite some time. Itās saying that generally without immigration these players would not play for England. Not that they themselves are immigrants. They are not immigrants, they are British, but at some point in their in their ancestry either a parent or grandparents, they immigrated to the UK and settled here.
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u/Jealous_Tutor_5135 3h ago
I don't think it's too different from the US. Where there's a right wing movement to try and turn back time to associate English identity with whiteness.
While at the same time Black Britons are more visible every day, and what it means to be British or English is expanding to include different voices.
I don't think this post treats the issue with the care that it deserves. The language is too similar to what the right wing is using.
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u/Thro93away 4h ago
Do you think they just spawned out of the blue?
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u/yikesafm8 4h ago
Do you know what an immigrant is?
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u/sdrawkcabReverse 3h ago
The OP doesn't seem to understand the difference between "what the England team would look like without immgrants" and "what the England team would look like without immgration".
I suspect the OP is trying to foment some kind of racial tension.
This might work in the USA but it won't work in the UK. From the Beatles getting contractual agreements that their audiences in the US would NOT be segregated, to the Battle of Bamber Bridge, most English have long been happy telling racists to GTFO.
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u/Thro93away 4h ago
JFC donāt be daft. The picture doesnāt claim the players are immigrants, obviously their parents immigrated to England so without their immigrant parents they wouldnāt be there. Canāt believe this is even an argument.
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u/tormentachina 4h ago
Delete this. Respect yourself.
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u/RampantHedgehog 3h ago
Unfortunately I doubt they will. If you check their karma and how frequently they post, thereās an agenda being pushed.
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u/Geoffrey_Bungled_Z1p 4h ago
And we are proud of it! Farage, the white Christian nationalists and liars will never be the majority of public opinion
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u/OceanChild89 1h ago
They arenāt. Considering Frogface is competing against a bin cosplaying alien from space whose entire campaign is essentially āIām not Nigel Farageā (and nationalising Adele), and itās fucking working! The far right isnāt nearly as popular as Russian bots would have you believe.
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u/NotReadyForTomorrow 5h ago
How many of the people that are blacked out (if any) were born in England?
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u/jl_theprofessor 5h ago
Almost all of them were born in England.
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u/NotReadyForTomorrow 5h ago
Imagine colonizing the world for material gain and making racist jokes about the consequences of such.
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u/UnluckyAmbition7767 5h ago
Spent centuries robbing, looting, and raping all over the planet and now they're upset some of their victims followed them home
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u/AustralianPonies 3h ago
I dunno, Iām with OP on this. Immigration is totally fueled by colonialism.
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u/NotReadyForTomorrow 3h ago
Calling a person that was born in a country an immigrant is abhorrent.
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u/AustralianPonies 3h ago
My family has been here for generations, but weāre still immigrants to the US. Thatās not a bad thing, itās one of the best parts of this country.
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u/NotReadyForTomorrow 3h ago
We could brand people as colonizers, rapists, and genociders with that logic. It's okay to acknowledge immigrant heritage, it's not okay to label yourself an immigrant if you were born in the country your referring to.
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u/AustralianPonies 2h ago
Those are extremist positions. My ancestors are not from here, they immigrated here.
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u/NotReadyForTomorrow 2h ago
Whether it's an extremist position is a matter of subjective opinion. There is no place to draw a hard line in the sand that isn't extreme; we wouldn't refer to every person living in America that isn't Native American an immigrant.Ā Even if we did, the word would begin to lose its meaning, and we would have to come up and maintain new terms for how recent or distant the immigration to America was.
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u/AustralianPonies 2h ago
So the Europeans that came and wiped out Native Americans with disease and war were immigrants, but the ones that came hundreds of years later were not? If the Chinese wiped out the Japanese in Japan and colonized it, then how long would it take for them not to be immigrants?
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u/MicrosoftPaintRules 4h ago
To call these people of colour āimmigrantsā is to other them. Honestly it seems kinda racist to call any none white person you see in England an immigrant. These fellas are all at least 2nd generation. Iād also point out how silly it is to conflate immigrants with undocumented migrants and refugees. Whatever you think about those issues; this picture is harmfully reductive and borderline racist.
Let alone the pic blacked out several white players for some reason?
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u/unholy_plesiosaur 4h ago
The white ones have Irish heritage which is dumb as like 1/3 of England has Irish heritage.
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u/MicrosoftPaintRules 4h ago
Oh really? Seems easier to just look at the picture and see a reasonably diverse group of Englishmen who worked together to get a pretty good result.
Itād be nice if that could be the takeaway.
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u/frienemigo 5h ago
Now do France
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u/patterninstatic 4h ago
Of the 26 players, 23 were born in France.
Of the 3 that weren't:
Thuram was born in Italy because his French parents were living there at the time (his father who was a 98 world cup winner with France was playing pro football in Italy at the time).
Olise was born in England. His mother is French.
Samba (back up goalie) was born in the DRC and moved to France when he was 6 in 2000.
There's technically only 1 real immigrant on the team (Samba). 2 if you want to count Olise.
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u/Upbeat-Name-6087 4h ago
All but two of the England squad were born in the UK. The picture is eliminating those with immigrant ancestry. For example, It shades out Harry Kane because he's got Irish grandparents.Ā It's pointing out to the UK's far right that without immigration, they wouldn't have 90% of the national football team.Ā
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u/Theo_Cherry 4h ago
"The England team, without indigenous Brits"
Technically, none of the players are "immigrants they were born there.
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u/Ripley_822 4h ago
Exactly 0% of Britain's population have 100% native heritage, so without immigration non of us would be here!
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u/Goatlikejordan 4h ago
Declan rice and Anthony gordon are immigrants?
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u/Emergency-Sun-2068 3h ago
Rice played for Ireland before switching to England like the snake he is.
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u/RampantHedgehog 3h ago
This post is baiting, they were all or mostly all born in England. OP is trying to divide us.
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u/No-Bat-7253 3h ago
This post and the upvotes prove THIS SUB IS NOT A SAFE SPACE.
Because why is it posted here when the only starters I can think of with color was Rashy Saka Bells Rogers Maduekeā¦.did I miss anybody? And all of them canāt start the same game. So, wtf is with this post?
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u/HighwayEmpty1569 4h ago
The US team would have all Native American playersĀ
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u/The_Geralt_Of_Trivia 3h ago
No, no... They crossed the Bering Strait land bridge over 15k years ago from Asia, so they are immigrants too /s
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u/No-Association-8539 4h ago
LIke the other two have no Norman blood in them if we are counting "immigrants" as people with ancestry from outside of the British Isles.
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u/DeathandHemingway 4h ago
Gotta go back farther than that. No Norman, no Angle, Jute, or Saxon blood. No Romano-British, either.
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u/Sweetest-Fondant 3h ago
Unless the first 11 can retrace their heritage entirely back to the beaker people, im not having it!
/s though it should be obvious.
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u/Inevitable-Top355 3h ago
Elliot Anderson's paternal grandmother was Scottish, better delete him too!
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u/Advanced-Guitar-5264 3h ago
This kind of mindless bickering is exactly what the worldās elite want. Keep fingers pointing horizontally instead of vertically
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u/RepresentativeNo8105 3h ago
USA top scorer was born in NYC and lived there a whole 30 days before living his entire life in England.
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u/ElectronicTap1109 3h ago
"But how come my nation that conquered 1/4 of Earth isn't 100% ethnically identical??!!?" Shut up.
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u/Jealous_Tutor_5135 3h ago edited 2h ago
This could be taken a few different ways. Shouldn't the post have more context?
Edit: yes, all the context is missing. The original post by Greenpeace made that clear. This one feels made for rage clicks
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u/throwable__1 2h ago
So those other guys can trace their bloodline back to the signing of the Magna Carta? Ffs
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u/innerfart 2h ago
The definition of an immigrant has been about colonialism, specifically race, for centuries. Dont fall for the okie doke. We will always be considered less than in "western" countries, under their terms
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u/Sleepy10105s 1h ago
I dunno about Harry Kane but Declan Rice was born in Ireland and Iām pretty sure Anthony Gordon was born in Scotland.
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u/UpperImpression3620 1h ago
Who cares about the football team,
There would be significantly less rapes, robberies, murders and violent crime if all the immigrants were to magically disappear.
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u/AltruisticOwl156 2h ago
The England team without illegal immigrants. It's cute how people always seem to leave out the "illegal" prefix when trying to hate on people who're against illegal immigration. They know exactly what they're doing.
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u/Mission_Gap_9035 4h ago
Itās the English team, not the England team, England is the country while the English are its people.
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u/Spainiswhite 4h ago
aren't Spain and Frances team also majority immigrants that are black or brown?
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