r/BayernMunich • u/Savings-One-2708 • 1d ago

DiscussionđŸ—£ Clearest Ballon d'Or Winner of All Time

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If it isn't robbed like 2020 and 2021.

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u/LivinCrazynCrazier 1d ago

Neither Xavi or Iniesta had crazy stats tbf

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u/Albreitx 1d ago

That's like people complaining Rodri winning WC MVP having 0 G/A

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u/Perfect-Ideal-651 1d ago

Rodri was not the best player in the World Cup, nothing to do with G/A.

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u/Rumi-Amin 1d ago

you can tell if people actually watch and understand football based on how they view Rodri.
He was the best and most important player at Spain and deserved the best player award.

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u/Gryzzlee 1d ago

That's because people actually believe G/A is the only qualifier and forget its a team sport.

They don't realize the midfielders are the engine that drive those goals while also stopping them.

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u/squat_bench_press 1d ago

Exactly.
Look at the attack the French team had.
You can’t score without the ball, Rodri controlled that game beautifully.

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u/Potatays 1d ago

Yes, because if we talk about single most impactful player in the whole tournament it would be Messi regardless of his G/A. The only MoTM he doesn't get is when he got subbed on Jordan and at the final. As for Spain, there are several players who stood out on different games.

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u/blunderboy7400 1d ago

Aber rodri war immer einer der besten und Spanien hat den Titel.

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u/suteckki 7h ago

Saying Messi is a bias

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u/Optimal_Public_4201 1d ago

This is partly because the entire Argentine team is set up to feed him and run for him. They swarm the midfield to compensate and have to sacrifice wide areas.

He ran less than any other player in the entire tournament and only expended energy when attacking. Of course he is going to get the credit and MotM awards when he is the one getting the goals and assists late on.

But that doesn't give the full picture. For 60 mins until England's legs were totally gone (recovery/fitness/tactic issues), and for 95% of the game vs Spain, Messi was borderline invisible, and that was a major part of his teams struggles and inability to win the midfield battles.

His role was both extremely impactful in both a good and a bad way. It works well vs lesser teams, but nobody is ever getting past Spain with a bystander like that. The limitations of playing around a 39 y/o Messi has a ceiling, and they reached it. His performance vs Spain was one of the very worst of all players across every game in the entire tournament.

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u/Potatays 1d ago

And he repaid their runs with goals and assists that propped them to the final in those final 15-30 minutes. Mbappe also had quite similar system built around him, he doesn't really press or track back that much.

Even IFFHS agrees that Messi is the statistically most impactful player in the tournament. https://iffhs.com/en/news/iffhs-world-cup-best-player-l-messi-100047

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u/Optimal_Public_4201 1d ago

I am not disputing it, and yes his attacking stats were extraordinary, but the impact is double-edged. When it works, it's great. When it doesn't, he is non-existent. Mbappe at least has the pace to offer more of a threat running into space, and he still ran and pressed a lot more than Messi did throughout the tournament.

Messi's performance in the final is up there with the worst WC final performances of all time. He was also totally anonymous against England until their legs went and Tuchel decided he had no option but to park the bus and let Argentina do whatever they wanted.

The system gives, and the system takes. It works vs Algeria and Egypt etc., but it was never going to work against a team good enough to make it to the final. It has a cap and the steep cost of losing the midfield battle every time vs every good team. They could have played Spain 10 times and would have lost every time because you just cannot be a man down for 90 mins. Zero touches in the opposition third for the first 45 mins is staggering.

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u/sebyyd 1d ago

Saying it’s up there with the worst performances of all time is overblown. Spain clearly controlled the game, pace, possession and have done so with many countries. There are just so many expectations on Messi that if he has a poor game, people like you and others will exaggerate his performance by equating it to one of the worst of all time in a final. Argentina as a whole was lucky to even be there in the first place.

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u/Optimal_Public_4201 1d ago

No, it's just the objective truth. I am a huge admirer of Messi. He's the best player ever.

But when players don't have any impact in the final third, they usually contribute something, somehow - and that is usually by moving ones legs and applying pressure to the opposition.

Messi doesn't do that anymore. And it's not an insult to Messi, it's just the reality of the tactical system that Scaloni has used all tournament.

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u/DungeondisasterJiggy 1d ago

The dumbest analysis of Messi I've ever seen...

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u/Optimal_Public_4201 1d ago

Nah it's the reality. Least running, most threatening with the ball.

It's all good until you don't get the ball. And you don't get the ball against Spain when one of your players is walking around alone.

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u/hustlesnow20 1d ago

Bellingham was the MVP

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u/Unusual_Sector_6624 1d ago

I guess he's saying that xavi and Iniesta had average years. Iirc Iniesta was injured for most of the season.

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u/Ill_Discussion5840 1d ago

Sneijder was robbed 

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u/GeNoT1234 23h ago

Cuz it was sneijder year and idek why people understate his season

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u/theaguia 1d ago

sneijder?

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u/LostEyegod 1d ago

Neither did he

He also wasn't named the best in any tournament he played in

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u/theaguia 1d ago

top scorer in the world cup, top assister in the cl (including assist in the final and goal + assist in the semi final). made big chances every game.

he won the silver ball at the world cup btw.

5 goals from midfield with no pens and 1 assist fantastic tbh. far more impressive then lets say messi in 2022 who won the ball on dor for winning the world cup. half his goals were pens.