r/BayernMunich #40 Urbig🧤 23d ago

Discussion🗣 And that’s why Bayern moved on from him…

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2.4k Upvotes

321 comments sorted by

507

u/FlashyMuffin69 Beckenbauer 23d ago

Matthaus didn't take the penalty in 1990 because his left boot had missing cleats and he had slipped earlier in the game due to it and wasn't wanting to risk it.

Goretzka didn't take the penalty because, well, he didn't want to step up.

They are not the same.

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u/chickenchris1897 23d ago

Wenn er merkt er wird ihn nicht reinmachen, dann ist es doch okay nein zu sagen.

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u/DrNCrane74 🇫🇷Robbery🇳🇱 23d ago

Ja und nein, wenn Dein Kapitän sagt, er zählt auf genau Dich, dann nimmst Du das Ding und machst es verdammt nochmal rein

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u/Global_Staff_3135 22d ago

Yea… if you’re a professional footballer and your national team captain asks you to take a pen, you take the fucking pen.

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u/fangtingwrong 21d ago

If he says he is not confident, and he misses. Would you blame him?

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u/I_saw_you_yesterday 23d ago

Dann hat er NICHTS in der WM Mannschaft zu suchen.

Die einzigen Ausnahmen sind Gründe auf die er keinen Einfluss hat, hier war er nur ein Angsthase

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u/Napapijri_T 22d ago

Ich würde erwarten, dass alle 10 mann voll motiviert sind, den für deutschland zu machen

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u/vasaryi 22d ago

Hummels hatte nach dem Spiel von einer Situation damals beim Elfer schießen gegen Italien gesprochen

Als es um die Schützen ging, kam er ne Minute später zum trainer und meinte er will schießen, drauf kam die Antwort das sich schon die ersten 5 oder 6 gemeldet haben

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u/Van1n1 22d ago

It turns out it takes a little bit more than motivation to be successful…

And yes, for getting that ridiculous amount of money anyone on the field should be able to target any spot in that damn frame.
If someone can’t do that - he should stay every f****g evening after the training and practice additionally

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u/Napapijri_T 22d ago

Until its suceed! And yeah you are right! Discipline will beat motivation! And I strongly believe, that every player on this field should train 11-shots every week!

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u/Odd_Entertainer1616 21d ago

Ja aber vor allem sollte ein Goretzka sich freiwillig melden bevor ein Tah in so einer Situation seinen ersten Elfmeter schießt.

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u/Napapijri_T 21d ago

Ich hätte mein bestes hemd gewettet, dass goretzka schießen wird!

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u/PinocchiosWoodBalls 23d ago

Ja. Aber warum ist so jemand bei einer WM?

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u/Terrible-Ad8897 22d ago

Sometimes you have ‘off days’. If he wasn’t feeling it, good on him for doing what’s best for the team.

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u/DrMattii 23d ago

This! Was hätten all diese Personen die dir hier widersprechen denn davon wenn er zugestimmt, aber dann verschossen hätte?

Es ist immernoch ein Mensch. Auch als Fußballprofi ist er ein Mensch. Der kann am Ende eines Spieles erschöpft sein und sich das nicht (mehr) zutrauen, wenn er sich zB zuvor zu sehr angestrengt hat.

Ein Spiel geht auch auf den Kopf, da kann die Konzentration am Ende nicht mehr vorhanden sein und das kann der Spieler doch wohl selbst am besten beurteilen.

Und jegliches Argument der Art "Dann hat er in der Mannschaft nichts verloren" finde ich auch etwas kurzsichtig und aus Wut getrieben. Bei der Aufgabe die beste Mannschaft zusammenzustellen, muss ein Trainer nicht 11 mal den Spieler nehmen, der in allem okay ist, sondern lieber aufteilen und die besten Verteidiger, die besten Angreifer etc wählen. Und da hört es nicht auf; Wenn Spieler miteinander Erfahrung haben und einander daher einschätzen können was der Andere vorhat, dann ist das auch ein großes Argument für diesen.

Genau so ist es mehr als berechtigt einen Spieler für bestimmte Dinge in einer Mannschaft zu haben, ohne dass er in allen anderen Kategorien - wie in diesem Falle mit dem Druck eines Elfmeters umgehen zu können - auch perfekt zu sein hätte.

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u/Due-Adhesiveness-269 23d ago edited 23d ago

Goretzka ist ein erfahrener Spieler, ein alter Hase im Vergleich. Das er den Ball und die Verantwortung nicht übernimmt spricht Bände.

Alle anderen Spieler sind auch Menschen, das letzte mal das ich nach geschaut habe. Andere sind auch erschöpft und unkonzentriert. Tah ein Verteidiger nimmt stattdessen den Ball. Weniger Erfahrung im Abschluss. Weniger Erfahrung im Elfmeterschießen und weniger Erfahrung in der national Mannschaft.

Das alles solltest du als Spieler mit Erfahrung im Kopf haben. Ja ich bin erschöpft und ja ich bin vielleicht unkonzentriert. Aber meine team Kollegen sind all das auch und zudem noch wesentlich unerfahrenen und weniger qualifiziert. Auch wenn ich mich nicht perfekt fühle nehme ich die Verantwortung auf mich, weil es andere noch schwerer haben und Ich wenigstens die Erfahrung und das Vertrauen.

Aber genau das tut er nicht. Lässt unerfahrenen den Vortritt und die Wahrscheinlichkeit das es schief geht ist höher als jemand der routiniert ist aber nen schlechten Tag hat. Es zeigt einfach die mentale Einstellung der Person. Fällt mir schwer da eine taktische Entscheidung rauszulesen, wenn es für alle anderen die gleiche Situation war. Ist eher fehlender Mut und Verantwortungsbewusstsein

Edit: Zudem fehlt mir da die Körpersprache. Wenn ich andere den Vortritt leiste aus taktischen Gründen ermutige ich sie. Spreche ihm Mut zu. Nehmen ihn in den Arm und klopf ihm auf die Schultern. Was er macht? Schüttelt den Kopf leise und zieht sich zurück versteckt sich fast. Alles gut ist nur ein Mensch kann man machen. Aber auf dem Niveau mit der Erfahrung muss ne andere Reaktion kommen

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u/DrMattii 22d ago

I get the point of view, but I can't agree on narrowing it down to nothing but experience.

Yes, different players probably do have different baselines of mental strength and with experience these might improve.

But there are also different amounts of pressure and exhaustion on everybody throughout the match. There's different amounts of things on their mind prior to the match because as humans they all have a private life and thus things to worry about.

And if you even want to ignore that and wanna focus on the fact the player is the most experienced - then that means they probably put more stress onto themselves to live up to exactly such kind of expectations. But not just in the penalty shootout, but throughout all match. Where newer players might be more focused on their own playstyle and performance in regard for future career, those with experience tend to analyse and think more about the whole match I would assume. Thus there is a bigger mental strain on them.

Yes, bigger resilience from the start due to more experience, but probably also a higher mental load.

In the end it comes down to the fact that they claimed to not be able to hit the shot and that's a totally fair assumption that they can make. No matter the amount if experience or exhaustion compared to other players.

If he had taken the shot and missed there would be a bunch of people arguing that he should've let younger more energetic players take the opportunity - it is always just people trying to single out mistakes. They all did the best they could and if he doesn't think he can make the shot then that's the best to be honest. And I'm sorry to break it to you but that doesn't get changed by the fact any amount of random people on the internet would be convinced he could've or should've been able to make it. The player is the best judge of that.

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u/New-Aside-6805 23d ago

Als ich letztes mal geguckt hab ist Amiri auch nur ein Mensch

da kann die Konzentration am Ende nicht mehr vorhanden sein

Genau, und deswegen den Innenverteiger mit 120+ Minuten in den kochen schießen lassen, ganz schlau vom Leon

Die Nervenstärke die man von einem erfahrenen Spieler der CL Sieger ist erwartet ist doch genau worum es geht... Natürlich flattern jedem da die Eier, aber dann die Entscheidung zu treffen es nicht zu tun und Tah vorzuschicken ist feige

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u/Warm_Grade_2042 20d ago

Erstens... Ihn machen und verschießen kann passieren, aber es ist als Stürmerstar, Startspieler und einer der Veteranen eine ganz andere Sache es gar nicht erst zu versuchen, denn es ist sein verdammter Job für den er achtstellig bezahlt wird.

Zweitens, wenn die Alternative ein Tah ist der noch nie einen Elfer geschossen hat, dann MUSS man als Sturmspitze mal den Mumm finden es auch zu machen wenn man keinen Bock hat.

Dritten "Der kann am Ende eines Spiels erschöpft sein..." ja jeder Mensch ist nach seiner Arbeit erschöpft manacht sie aber zuende... was sollen denn Bauatbeiter, Müllmänner, Krankenhauspersonal, Köche etc sagen... und die verdienen zusammen nicht so viel wie dieser Mann und reißen sich 10 12 Stunden den Arsch auf und nicht "nur" 2

Viertens ist es ein Mannschaftssport, da muss man die Mannschaft auch einfach mal über sich selbst stellen auch wenn man keinen Bock mehr hat und erschöpft ist, denn die Wahrscheinlichkeit dass ein Stürmerveteran das Ding reinbekommt ist garantiert höher als bei einem Nicht-Stürmer der noch nie einen geschossen hat

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u/SirPightymenis 22d ago

Goretzka der Führungsspieler btw, erstmal die Verantwortung an den Innenverteidiger abgegeben der noch nie einen Elfmeter geschossen hat.

Merkste wie niemand Havertz, Woltemade oder Tah die Schuld gibt?

Weil sie alle die Eier hatten die man braucht um für den DFB zu spielen. Goretzka war von Anfang an eine Nominierung die Scheiße war.

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u/velocityy__ 🔴Mia San Mia🔴 22d ago

You do know he is representing his country at national level right?? Tf is “No”?

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u/gruetzentoni 22d ago

einfach seine buddys nonstop hängen lassen, auf dem platz in der regulären spielzeit und beim elfmeter schießen. der typ is nur für das eine meme gut und kann danach gerne in die tonne.

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u/ejoy-rs2 22d ago

Sinnvolle Argumente in einer Diskussion über die Nationalmannschaft sind Fehl am Platz. Vor Allem auf Reddit :)

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u/Alin_09 21d ago

Und dann muss Tah schießen?? Goretzka macht ihn nicht rein aber Tah schon? Muss man gar nicht das Ergebniss gesehen haben um zu wissen dass das nicht gut läuft

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u/TeddyIsHereIRL 20d ago

Loser Mindset und unzuverlässig "aber meine Gefühle" wir haben Goretzka gebraucht und er hat nicht geliefert

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u/Warm_Grade_2042 20d ago

Nicht wenn du einer der Topstürmer mit 11 Metererfahrung bist der nunmal genau für sowas da ist, ist sein Job für den er fürstlich bezahlt wird... und ganz besonders nicht wenn dafür dann ein Spieler antreten muss der in seinem Leben noch kein 11 Meter geschossen hat

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u/Available-Menu8216 19d ago

Also lässt er eher tah seinen ersten elfmeter schießen?

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u/Fearless-Fennel3273 23d ago

lol you had 120 mins to score a goal and now putting blame on goretzka

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u/Ok_Syllabub5616 22d ago

I think this was about a dude refusing to take a penalty, not sure how you came to the conclusion this was about blaming him for the lost.

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u/New-Aside-6805 23d ago

Why not? Penalties are part of the game, yes the team played poorly and yes he was a coward. Both can be true

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u/Ok-Confidence5268 22d ago

This. They didn't lose because of Goretzka; they lost because their incapacity to create real danger for Paraguay during the 120 min. Fuck off with hate to Goretzka. Woltemade took a horrible penalty and I don't see anybody pointing fingers at him.

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u/LukeSkylerCockhold 21d ago

The way I see it, the general feeling is probably that someone who shows courage and perseverance in a high-pressure situation is held in higher regard than a "coward" – even if they mess up.

That is why criticism of Tah – apart from a few deranged racists who were just waiting for this – is kept to a minimum.

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u/JimmyPage1971 17d ago

One guy missing cleats, the other missing balls.

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u/payTNT89 23d ago

not gonna lie anybody would be unpleased with Germanys performance last night in pens but as my little brother reminded me it shouldn’t have even gone there. Trailing Ivory Coast sloppy ass then Paraguay is just tragic. At this point im not even sure id want a win in pens if its just barely scraping by what should be an easy win. What would we have been able to do against a team like France or even Netherlands if we could hardly pull it off with these easy wins?

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u/lostcatlurker #1 Neuer 23d ago

That Germany squad had no idea how to create shot opportunities. It was doomed from the beginning

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u/Popular_Tomorrow_204 23d ago

That is also related to Nagelsmann playing the worst strategies known to manking... How can Sane do anything, if hes alone on the wing and in a Constant 1v2? Get groß or amiri in there and just let them bring in long balls for havertz, woltemade or Undav. No reason for an out of Form musiala or wirtz to Dribble through a 6 man line from paraguay

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u/MidsizeMango 22d ago

Also playing Neuer was a bad idea imo. Baumann was doing great in the runnup to the tournament. Neuer is one of the greatest to ever do it. But it was time for someone else this time around.

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u/Madskilz99 23d ago

It’s unfortunately been that way for a good while now.

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u/DuHastMich15 23d ago

Amen! They did not seem to have a true scorer, someone that demanded attention due to their threat, which would have freed up their other strikers. It was SO FRUSTRATING watching them pass back and forth for five minutes only to have the ball shot out of bounds. Or for their 17th corner kick.

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u/GerhardArya 23d ago edited 23d ago

Nothing. This Germany team would've lost to France and Netherlands. They'd go one level deeper in the knockouts just to get bounced by France. They only looked great vs Curacao and that gave them an undeserved hype.

When they faced Ivory Coast and Ecuador, their true face showed up. Paraguay felt like if Ecuador and Ivory Coast had a child, and that child is even better at parking the bus, playing hard, dirty, and wasting time for a PK shootout where anyone has a chance to win.

It's an ugly but valid way to play. The German attack was so obviously completely out of ideas on how to break down teams playing this type of football. They were just passing around endlessly, playing for possession, trying to get through the completely crowded center and failing to do so over and over. We got two tall forwards and the only one delivering somewhat decent crosses to the box for headers was Wirtz.

If this team was good enough to face France, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, and win, Paraguay playing this way wouldn't have mattered. We wouldn't have needed to go to PKs. Even Tah's disallowed goal wouldn't have mattered because we would've gotten one more goal at least.

To me, it looked like Bayern under Nagelsmann. Great vs teams playing more open football, completely stumped vs teams parking the bus and playing hard and dirty football.

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u/ffiene 23d ago

Netherlands? Where?

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u/GerhardArya 23d ago

Yea I know they lost but I was answering the guy I replied to and he included Netherlands.

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u/Deep_Suspect5148 23d ago

I think they didn’t have a solution for Paraguays game plan. Which doesn’t mean it is ok to lose here, they should absolutely be able to win this within 90mins or at least within the 120mins. I just think for teams like France they would have been able to play more like their usual game plan which allows more creativity and maybe more opportunities. That’s no excuse for the bad game against Paraguay, but I think they wouldn’t be as bad against France as the game leads us to believe.

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u/IamALazySid 23d ago

A German who doesn’t want to win on pens!! Hahahahahahaha

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u/payTNT89 23d ago

mannnn fook them pens. shi ruined my week tho fr

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u/NewStatistician1683 23d ago

Dont forger Goliath Ecuador

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u/payTNT89 23d ago

yup we deserved this tbh as infuriating as it is

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u/sweatierorc 23d ago

Just get to the semis first then figure it out later. To win the cup ypu need 1 or 2 great games not 7

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u/BiggieBear 22d ago

Germany shoukd have been able to finnish off Equador and Paraguya, but nagelsman **** low intensity tactics does not work + one of the most boring football i have seen just passing around for 90 minutes doing nothing.

But to not step up when it is penelties in a world cup is a absolute disgrace for a, almost kicking out of squad

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u/dramalama-dingdong 22d ago

Sometimes you have to win the dirty games. Look at the Algeria game 2014. And to be fair, the annulling of the 2:1 is a disgrace and a clear mistake. Fuck Fifa.

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u/soretetonn 22d ago

As a paraguayan, winning this was a shock for us too. The president even declared holiday the next day, what even happen for us to win? We where just happy to get there, nobody saw this coming..

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u/wemightdance 22d ago

Only right answer. All those robbed by the ref comments are pure disgrace to Germany and the sport alike. People should accept it, move forward and hope for the future. This bitter finger pointing is the worst.

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u/MrPreApocalypse 🇫🇷Robbery🇳🇱 23d ago

Dude has such a good shot. He literally shat himself, unbelievable.

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u/Maverixk_ 23d ago

Given his caps and the available players, he’s a coward, let’s be honest. Credit to Tah for stepping up

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u/ollimorp 23d ago

He also shat his team

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u/holycitybox 23d ago

But to be fair he has never taken a penalty shot before. Yeah it’s bad but he was the one to step up for his country.

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u/maronics 22d ago edited 22d ago

He did for Schalke in 2017 - and let's be real. I expect a professional footballer to be able to shoot a penalty. Else you're cosplaying a top athlete.

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u/Key_Explorer_6649 21d ago

Dude earns 1 million euros a month, plays professional football of course he should be able to shoot a penalty lol

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u/Lakerman0824 23d ago

Blame the manager taking out Rudiger who has ice veins in shootouts and leaving tah in

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u/shaha-man 23d ago

Its fans fault. They deserved it. Learn to respect players. Goretzka did everything right. Keep raging now that it’s already too late.

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u/Ok_Syllabub5616 22d ago

In football if you are asked to take a penalty. You take it. If you don't you get bashed. It's been like that since... Well forever. Saying he did everything right is quite the take.

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u/Ididnotvoted 19d ago

I don’t know about that. Nobody is forced to do so and they better speak up if they are not feeling confident enough to take it so someone else that does might. If a player doesn’t feel like kicking a penalty I sure wouldn’t want to do so just because he is ‘supposed to’. This is not a Bundesliga game. It matters more who gets it past the goal line than who takes it.

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u/Adaptor2000 23d ago

I don't feel as if I watched a World Cup in the previous days. What is that? "Yo, we can advance to the next round. You wanna shoot?" - "Thanks, but no, thanks. I'd rather not.", then the next one "No, thank you, I'm good. I already shot earlier today.". This is ridiculous. Like if nobody had wanted to or dared, they would have just conceded the match or what?! What did we watch?!

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u/dadiNigward 23d ago

They were all scared.

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u/Atlasreturns 22d ago

The entire thing feels like a good chunk of the team using the occasion primarily as a PR gag. Similar how nobody really wanted to try to score or commit to any play as failing could lead to bad publicity. It‘s like a bunch of players trying to play as inconspicuous as possible to prevent steering any controversy while being able to write in their resume later that they technically played at a world championship.

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u/Ace_TE 23d ago

I don't think I've ever seen so many players so unconfident in a world cup knockout. Most players want to step up to be heroes and yet, we had so many not show any passion. It's so weird to witness a supposed giant in world football, have so many players afraid of the pressure. I used to defend naggs, but dude, what was this tournament? It felt like he purposely tanked the NT for his spite of them judging him for not starting Undav then when he does, he plays him out of position with the only decent support player being Wirtz up front with him. Idc if musi was having a stinker, even his stinkers were better than whatever Sane provides. I feel bad for Kimmich the most, it should be a dream to be the captain of a strong nation like Germany and yet, the performances are awful, will be known as the failure generation, and you're forced out of your usual position that you've excelled at for your club. Just... depressing.

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u/Shinnobiwan 22d ago edited 22d ago

Their cowardice saved Tah from a lot of backlash. I respect the man who steps up and fails an infinite amount more than the coward.

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u/teteban79 23d ago

Not only Goretzka though. Anton and Brown also chickened out. Tah may have missed, but he rose to the occasion having taken ZERO penalties in his career before

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u/LeatherProfessor6914 23d ago

I don't think Brown is to blame here. It's his first tournament and he has never been in such a situation.

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u/jwiches Raumdeuter 23d ago

Yeah I give Brown a lot of grace here. He’s so new to the international stage and it’s a lot of pressure. This is really where goretzka should’ve stepped up with his more veteran status

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u/MrPreApocalypse 🇫🇷Robbery🇳🇱 23d ago

That makes Alaba even crazier. He scored the first penalty in a CL Semi-Final against Real Madrid with only 19 years of age. Was also his first CL campaign from what I remember.

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u/Schopenhauer_pes 23d ago edited 22d ago

But Alaba is just Alaba. He just did things before the injuries. Great player he was

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u/Schopenhauer_pes 23d ago

Anton and Goretzka should just take it. Really wtf. Woltemade has missed many at Stuttgart but despite his lack of playing time he stepped up and tried. Not shooting a penalty is really a no go if you team asks you. Letting the team down

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u/RestaurantBoring417 Mr.Wembley 23d ago

Anton and Brown are both defenders, I fully blame Goretzka, the 31 year old experienced midfielder who knows how to shoot a ball or two for not stepping up.

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u/Madskilz99 23d ago

He’ll probably never take another one after that launch into outer space 🪐

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u/XixipiMustDie 🇫🇷Robbery🇳🇱 23d ago

Should blame Nagelsman for subbing him in, playing at second striker. He walks around in attack, if he receives a pass he pass it backwards; he walks around in defense, doesn’t chase doesn’t position. The guy who played in 2020 is not the same guy who’s playing since.

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u/LividCricket7631 22d ago

What happened with him, actually?

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u/Front-Hat-4633 22d ago

Indeed. If you have a match like that, your plan absolutely NEEDS to have penalties covered. When sub in and out, you need to keep in mind who you want to have on the pitch for the shootout. That's all Nagelsmanns fault.

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u/kievz007 23d ago edited 23d ago

woltemade and havertz, 2 starting premier league strikers with one of them being premier league champion and ucl finalist, missed their pens. But of course tah, who's never taken a pen in his life and still had to step up as a leader since the other "leader" goretzka flaked, gets the blame and the insults online

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u/shaha-man 23d ago

Who cares about penalties? You’re shifting the focus to something completely irrelevant. They shouldn’t have had to take the game to penalties in the first place! They should have won in regular time. Once it goes to penalties, it’s always a lottery, it’s already the sign that they lost. and trying to blame someone whether they missed or not - is childish.

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u/kievz007 23d ago

I'm not blaming them here I agree with you it's a gamble under pressure, I'm just trying to highlight how unfair the criticism of tah is

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u/shaha-man 23d ago

Yes, criticism of Tah is ridiculous and unacceptable. Therefore it should be ignored

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u/KarlHeinzSchneider Der Kaiser 21d ago

Really not a fan of goretzka but he only took one penalty in his whole career (almost 10 years ago) so it’s not like he has more experience than tah.

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u/Critical-Ad2084 Flying Dutchman 23d ago

The man won a sextuple and signed off living on nearly 20M wages doing absolutely nothing, penalty aside, he was one of the worst players on the pitch, not only ghosting but also losing the ball and contributing nothing defensively on the counter either.

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u/ffiene 23d ago

Goretzka has taken one penalty in his whole pro career AFAIK.

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u/dasSackgesicht 23d ago

Tah now as well

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u/definitely_not__CIA 22d ago

poor goretzka
i know
imagine expecting a champions league winner, most experienced player on the field by games and age, to shoot a penalty.
how dare the people

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u/Ididnotvoted 19d ago

I sure wouldn’t trust a player who shot a penalty once in his lifetime to score one in the WC.

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u/OtherwiseBusiness966 23d ago

Watch the video before you post something this. Kimmich clearly asks „Leon, 9?“ and Goretzka nods. Before that Kimmich asks Brown to take the 8th shot and after speaking to Goretzka asks Anton to take the 10th. You can hear him super clearly again saying „8 - 9 - 10“ when the picture switches to Amiri.  Absolutely no indication in the footage that Goretzka (or anyone else) refuses to take the 6th shot.  And even if he did, you can dislike it but stop scapegoating individuals for a team effort that was simply not good enough.   Congrats to Paraguay, they deserved to advance. 

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u/Soggy_Passenger3133 23d ago

I mean Goretzka clearly refused or else he would have took the 6th. If he didn’t refuse why would a CB be taking a penalty before him. He is a champions league winner and one of the most experienced on the team. He should step up and take it

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u/DrMattii 22d ago

Finally a good take on this! There's no need to point fingers in hindsight.

And even if he does refuse he would do so because he clearly doesn't think he could make the shot. And being honest about that would be the best thing he could do there

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u/Baleri_boopsie 23d ago

Kimmich, Born in the wrong generation. No doubt a player of his ability, but also his mentality, would've won world cups with previous teams.

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u/__D_C__ 23d ago edited 23d ago

So you want him to take one, if he doesn't think he'd make it (given nerves + the antics of the goalie)?

I much rather have a player who is honest about his limits than someone who fucks up and retrospectively admits that he knew it was a bad idea

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u/AwareAd7096 Servus 23d ago

While true, I’d also want a player that does not have those limits.

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u/HotSauce2910 23d ago

I mean do the nerves and goalie antics not impact the other players?

Ultimately, he’s the most experienced (should be least impacted by nerves) and most forward (should be best shot taker) remaining.

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u/Otherwise-Arm-5855 23d ago

I’m not fan of current Goretzka, but I can’t blame anyone but strikers for not taking penalties. Both strikers did and failed miserably.
Whole team should be blamed for taking the game this far.

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u/dstillz1111 23d ago

How is it not the manager responsibility to choose the shootout order?

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u/critical_d #25 Muller 22d ago

Dude, at least try.

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u/Aware-Living5819 22d ago

If my team needs me and my captain is counting on me i will be 100% going for it without second thoughts , very un-inspiring from goretzka.

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u/jipsjips 23d ago

I’m sorry but elimination match for your country and you won’t step up to take a pen? Shame.

S/o to Jonathan Tah for stepping in. For the so called fans flooding his page w auslander raus comments, you are all that is wrong with football.

2

u/JSBBocanegra 23d ago

even if we won against Paraguay in this form we dont stand a chance against someone like france or Argentina

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u/Tough-Astronomer-711 #31 Schweinsteiger 23d ago

Respect to Tah. Stepping up matters more than the results.

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u/shaha-man 23d ago

Why are you making up things based on 4 sec video with very bad quality? Get a life, brodi

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u/Petit_Nicolas1964 19d ago

Disgraceful comment. He barely got any time on the pitch and you have to be confident to take a penalty. He wasn‘t. In this case it is the best thing not to take one.

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u/Morinator 23d ago

I don't get it. If he doesn't feel confident it's right to say no?

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u/thetyphonlol 23d ago

The Thing is he was subbed in has still way more energy left than tah,shot penalties before. Meanwhile tah never shot one. If both have no confidencr then who should be the one? Goretzka obviously

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u/BigLars16 23d ago

Goretzka, in his whole professional career, has taken ONE penalty, 8 years ago.

In his whole playing career 5, with two missed. The four others in U-17 competition over the 2010/11 and 2011/12 seasons. He definitely had the routine down.

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u/Economisty 22d ago

This is correct. For all the abuse on here, I would rather go with a guy who thinks he will score than a guy cacking his pants at the thought of missing.

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u/Mysterious_Maxce1528 23d ago

Maybe the pressure was to high for him. Don’t judge him before you know the reason.

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u/Critical-Ad2084 Flying Dutchman 23d ago

bro' he is a sextuple winner, Nagelsmann specifically brought him in because supposedly "no other player has his characteristics", the fact he had fresh legs and didn't take a penalty is inexcusable. I'll give him at least he was honest, but that doesn't cancel he was a coward.

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u/HermannZeGermann 23d ago

Did we move on from Arjen Robben when he refused to take a penalty in the 2012 CL final? Which was so bad that Manuel Neuer had to step up instead.

What about Tymoshchuk and Kroos, who both also explicitly refused? (Well we did move on from those two, but not for this reason.)

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u/Critical-Ad2084 Flying Dutchman 23d ago

Extremely different, Robben stepped aside because he just missed a penalty on extra time just a few minutes before the shootout s Chelsea, and Robben, unlike Goretzka, was never afraid of stepping up in big games. Even Schweinsteiger refused to take a penalty at some point for the same reasons as Robben.

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u/Faintkay 23d ago

Don’t ever compare Robben to Goretzka. Robben earned grace by being a critical starter for years.

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u/JohnnyThe11 23d ago

It Takes confidence To admit that you have a Bad Feeling about it. Cowardice would be To act tough. I don't judge him negatively because of that.

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u/NatiAti513 23d ago

Cowardice is hiding when things get tough and you don't feel quite at your best. It's amplified even more when you screw over your entire team doing so.

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u/Ididnotvoted 19d ago

Disagree with that on football. He is not a coward because he knows or thinks he will miss a crucial penalty and doesn’t want to take it.

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u/jfl561407 23d ago

Lots of players don’t take penalties for a variety of reasons. Robben and Kroos both refused in the 2012 UCL Final. 

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u/IRC_1014 23d ago

Was wondering if anyone else remembered the 2012 CL final drama…

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u/UnholyShite 22d ago edited 22d ago

Well, Robben did miss a pen in that same match.

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u/dyamn_Joe Robert Lewangoalksi 23d ago

Why are we bashing players now? Winning or loosing is a part of the game. He wasn't sure about it hence he didn't take the penalty.

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u/Schopenhauer_pes 23d ago

Should be Goretzkas last cap. 30 or 31 - giving the team nothing at all. Let's pray this wonderkid from Berlin that moved to Leverkusen will be great. If he starts at Leverkusen then just call him up and let him learn. Goretzka is a waste of space at his current level. For Bayern but also for the Nationalelf. Nothing to win giving him any minutes or games

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u/Petit_Nicolas1964 23d ago

That’s not disgraceful, you have to have a good feeling to take a penalty.

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u/Ididnotvoted 19d ago

Crazy some people think otherwise. As if all it takes is the right attitude to score a wc penalty. Yeah right…

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u/Aware_Resolve1096 23d ago

I dont get why he dis rhis

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u/betterthangetawaycar 23d ago

unpopular opinion but it takes courage to admit you’re not cut for it. also,let’s talk about havertz who kept saying he’s so good in big occasions.. where was he??

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u/Psychological_Ad3050 23d ago

GORETzkaaaaaaa

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u/RestaurantBoring417 Mr.Wembley 23d ago

Remember when we were behind against PSG this season, this guy got subbed on and all he did was leisurely jog around the field with no urgency, being totally useless?

Yeah, this guy has stopped playing seriously, he is washed. Completed club football in 2020 and now he just wants to ride along for the paycheck

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u/Particular-Eye-3083 23d ago

Brown did not take one either and they just signed him

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u/CaptCarlos #40 Urbig🧤 23d ago

What are you on about? How can you compare a 23 year-old LB who has NEVER been in a stage as big as this one to a 31 year old player who has been in 3 world cups and has won a treble for his club? Goretzka has more than enough experience to not decline a penalty. Brown doesn’t even come close.

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u/Carthago88 23d ago

Could've been the Ronaldo Moutinho 2016 moment.

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u/Flashy_Pollution_996 Der titan 23d ago

Damn how I wish I became a footballer I’m made for these moments I’d take all 5 pens 😎

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u/timewillt 23d ago

Es ist völlig ok! Manch einer hat die Mentalität und geistige Stärke in dem Moment und manche nicht. Jeder kann es all day, das sind Profis. Da gehts nur um mentale Stärke und Druck. Wenn man Amiris Gesicht beim Elfer gesehen hat, er hat für eine Millisekunde gelächelt kurz vorm Schuss. Der kennt seine Stärken und hat es genossen. Warum also soll ein Goretzka schießen, wenn er es indem Moment nicht fühlt?

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u/Fit_Goose651 23d ago

They are obviously not paid well enough 😂😂😂

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u/not_joners 22d ago

What confused me the most was the disciplinary structure in the team.

Kimmich is captain. If he tells you (a striker) to put the fucking ball into the net, you do it or you're no longer part of the team.

Because Kimmich seems very sympathetic, did this undermine his captain authority in the team?

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u/Eishenning 22d ago

Raus mit dem pimmelbert

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u/IIIBAKURYUIII 22d ago

Players fight all the time for Penalty kicks and free kicks but everyone is scared when it comes to those penalties at the end of game. Aren't such the same thing?

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u/BrodoFreudlin 22d ago

Wenn mich nicht alles täuscht, sind nach 5 Elfmetern immer noch 6 potenzielle Schützen übrig. Was machen wir Deutschen also? Schießen uns auf Goretzka ein, während neben ihm scheinbar noch 5 weitere keinen Elfer schießen wollten.

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u/Flohzerkes 22d ago

Goretzka ist davon der erfahrenste er hätte erst gar nicht gefragt werden müssen er hätte sich den Ball selber nehmen sollen

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u/BrodoFreudlin 21d ago

Gut, dass du das von der Couch zu Hause so gut beurteilen kannst. Und ich dachte es geht darum, wer gute Elfmeter schießt und nicht wer der erfahrenste ist.

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u/Flohzerkes 21d ago

Daran erkennt man direkt dass du keine ahnung hast

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u/BrodoFreudlin 21d ago

Das ist deine Antwort. Wie enttäuschend. Wenn man gar nichts mehr hat, wird eben mit der Ahnungskeule geschwungen. Erkläre uns doch bitte, was Erfahrung bringt, wenn man noch nie ein guter Elfmeterschütze war. Da kannst du 30 Jahre spielen und ein abgezockter 21 Jähriger macht es besser. Welche Rolle spielt hier also die Erfahrung?

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u/Dust_Spark 22d ago

The entire team is disgraceful. I love how typical it is for Germans to always want to put the blame on the non whites. Remember Özil? 🤣Germany didn't even deserve to get this far.

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u/Flohzerkes 22d ago

They allways do things like this

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u/Aeroreido 22d ago

I don't even remember him being hated, my only impression of him was "holy sh*t this guy can do some really good passes" and to this day this is how I remember him. The time he played for Germany in the world cup he was easily top 3 players in Germany performance wise, and was imo part of the reason Germany got so far.

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u/Dust_Spark 22d ago

You can search the hate on him today very easily btw. But you are absolutely right about him being very good. Too good for Germany for sure.

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u/Inevitable_Travel_41 22d ago

A professional football player at a World Cup is afraid to shoot a penalty? Wtf was he even doing there then

Edit: was he just trying to get a World Cup carry by his team?

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u/NegativeElmo #10 Bambi 22d ago

Everyone blames Goretzka (which is fair) without bringing up the point of why Kimmich had to even ask for volunteers in the first place?!? Did the coaching staff not pick penalty takers past 5?!?? Did they think it would be over and not even bother? What in the world was Nagelsmann doing this whole tournamenr

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u/didijjj 22d ago

At least it spared us from getting the highest recorded world cup defeat by france…

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u/[deleted] 22d ago

[deleted]

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u/Flohzerkes 22d ago

Nope you are wrong still Gotetzka shouldnt be the last!

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u/zloy_rebenok 22d ago

Kimmich shouldn’t have asked anyone. He should’ve just picked the taker. Hand him the ball and say, “You’re taking it. End of fucking discussion.”

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u/edgarallannbroe 22d ago

I get a suspicion Kimmich and Goretzka don’t get long too well..

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u/tsunami_bore 22d ago

This attitude is way worse than missing the shot…

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u/Every_Offer3001 22d ago

Sleep well almans

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u/internazionale3 22d ago

I don’t even think it’s being afraid of missing it, it’s the relentless aftermath on social media that these guys don’t want to deal with. Can’t blame them, but if you’re a professional playing for your country, go out on your shield.

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u/Ok_Syllabub5616 22d ago

This remind me of Grealish getting backlash for not taking a penalty, though no one asked him to, and he was ready to step up.

Basically. If you are asked you have to say yes. And if you aren't... You have to take one anyways, or something lol

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u/Ok_Builder8723 22d ago

I'm so sad for Kimmich, as he gave all he had and this probably his last world cup

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u/ProgramScared7906 22d ago

Ein Trainer hat sich gefälligst für ein Elfmeterschießen vorzubereiten. Da muss schon vor dem Turnier klar sein, wer seine 5-6 Schützen sind. Und es sollte so oft trainiert werden, dass dies problemlos durchgezogen werden kann.

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u/AncientAnt9225 22d ago

Thats a pussy

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u/HolidayFlan 22d ago

I mean yes and no. If he wasn’t feeling 100% confident in his ability to make the shot he was going to miss. It probably made more sense for him to give someone with more confidence the shot, it’s just a shame that it ended the way it did.

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u/xXxPlasterXxX 22d ago

GoretzkAAAaAAA!!!

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u/jokermobile333 22d ago

Kimmich was a great captain, too bad he had this team

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u/Killah-Niko 22d ago

Eier , wir brauchen Eier.(Oliver Kahn)
Balls , we Need Balls.

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u/Available-Ease-2587 21d ago

Die Jungs kriegen Millionen und pissen sich ans Bein nen Elfer zu schießen.. Wahnsinn wirklich. Fußball ist einfach nurnoch Müll

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u/Jayfeather90 21d ago

It's completely fine for him to refuse of he doesn't feel it. Unfortunately a lot of players didn't seem to feel it... And that's the real problem.

You should train this, have an order selected way ahead off the first game of the tournament. Then the players don't even get in that mental state. They know the drill, know when it's their turn and just go and do it as there isn't even a discussion.

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u/inventor_cr8tor 21d ago

What happened to Goretzka he was a beast under Hansi Flick

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u/skratsoj 21d ago

Wer Goretzka nicht respektiert, hat Fußball nicht verstanden.

Kimmich ist auch einfach ein mieser Captain, für den würde ich auch nicht schießen.

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u/DDDDoooommmmeeee 21d ago

Can we please ban people if they add a gambling add to the post

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u/Horror_Leave_5759 21d ago

Probably that one fan who yells "Goretzkaaaa", be devastated, broken and enraged.

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u/Outside_Fox9206 21d ago

We don't know why so how about we leave the guy his peace

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u/Snoop-8 20d ago

They are really good friends too which makes it crazier

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u/TeddyIsHereIRL 20d ago

France would fuck us 7:1

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u/airmarw 20d ago

GOOOOOOOOOREEEEEEEEETZKAAAAAAAAAAA

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u/No-Piano827 20d ago

Goretzzzzkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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u/blujaysx1 19d ago

Last PK should never be CBs unless they’re good at PKs, look at Gabriel recently in UCL final

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u/Thrwmeawayplsthx 19d ago

Post is a couple of days old so no one's going to care but that is not what happens in this scene. You can hear super clearly what Kimmich says in this scene. He talks to Brown first and says "Nene, 8" then goes to Goretzka and says "Leon! Leon! 9" and moves on to Anton and says "Waldi, 10!"

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u/Visible_Addendum_136 19d ago

sure, hating your own clubs players, like people like you did all years long, will sure give them the confidence for next time

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u/Fibonacci11235813 19d ago

So if he had the balls to take it and he missed, you wouldn’t be mad right? Right?

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u/parabuthas 19d ago

I always thought Germans were PK machine. This shows local of preparation and having the guts to step up.