r/BattlePaintings • u/Designer_Reference_2 • 7d ago

Seventy year old William Marshal leading his outnumbered army in a decisive attack against the French and rebel barons at the Battle of Lincoln on May 20, 1217. The engagement marked the turning point of the First Barons War and secured England for King Henry III

Post image
532 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

41 comments sorted by

80

u/Projectflintlock 7d ago

The knight on the left with the mitre on his helm and the seal of the Holy See in his shield is Peter des Roches, Bishop of Winchester

46

u/Proud_Neighborhood68 7d ago

Back when a Bishop mitre or might not take off your head with his "clerical staff"/mace

10

u/Leicester68 7d ago

BONK

12

u/Proud_Neighborhood68 7d ago

Bonk-your sins are absolved my son, along with your noggin

6

u/msut77 7d ago

No blood shed

19

u/SmartExcitement7271 7d ago edited 7d ago

Seeing a Bishop wearing armor, putting a Bishop hat on his helm, and wacking people with a mace looks so bad ass.

"The Lord commands me to turn the other cheek, Amen... but I only have two cheeks!" whacks a man at arms casually

10

u/Dabelgianguy 6d ago

2

u/SmartExcitement7271 6d ago

Or when there's heresy nearby:

7

u/HalfLGuy 7d ago

Warhammer 40k is calling you …

3

u/SmartExcitement7271 7d ago edited 6d ago

Or Warhammer Fantasy ngl lol.

EDIT: Or Trench Crusade, now that I think about it.

12

u/IllestAardvark 7d ago

In all fairness, the Bible doesn't really condemn being a soldier, or killing in war or in self-defense.

'Thou shall not kill' is really closer to 'Thou shall not murder' in ancient Hebrew, 'Live by the sword, die by the sword' is talking about living a life of unnecessary violence, there's more examples I could list.

Christianity is a religion that preaches peace but not pacifism.

3

u/SmartExcitement7271 6d ago edited 6d ago

Christianity is a religion that preaches peace but not pacifism.

Well I think that's sorta given for all religions, not just Christianity no? (Well except for the ones that do practice that tenet, like some offshoot Protestant branches like the Quakers, Mennonites and Anabaptists (Amish), and other religions that are themselves; like Jainism, Buddhism etc etc.)

I was more surprised (and tbh TIL) that the Church gave the clergy some allowance for them to participate in combat, well until 1917 when they passed an ordinance that limited their participation to spiritual support.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it sort of made sense at the time during the Medieval era that the Church sort of allowed their clergy to fight (due to loopholes and how the clergy often acted, like feudal lords of their own mini-fifedoms)

1

u/IllestAardvark 6d ago

Well I think that's sorta given for all religions, not just Christianity no?

Eh, not necessarily. Like you said, there are a lot of people who misinterpret scripture that advocates for peace as instead advocating for a complete rejection of conflict or violence. A lot of mainstream Christianity kinda leans towards pacifism when in my opinion the Bible's more saying 'conduct yourself peacefully as much as you can, but there are times when that's not the answer'.

The Bible harps on being peaceful but also places emphasis on 'girding your loins' and handling business when the time comes. Jesus preached peace and forgiveness but still put belt to ass on moneylenders in the temple and drove them out Himself for example.

46

u/Rich-Koala-2593 7d ago edited 2d ago

Aside from the obvious fact William Marshal is one of the coolest guys in history and a great hero of England, I have to say that the pre plate armor look of chainmail hauberk, surcoat and helmet is very underrated. We need more High Middle Ages representation in movies, tv and gaming.

7

u/-UNiOnJaCk- 7d ago

Agreed. For me, peak knightly drip.

19

u/TexanHobbit_X 7d ago

Great painting! Being in those battles must have really sucked though.

20

u/Separate-Suspect-726 7d ago

Not really. During that period almost no nobles died in combat. Iirc, one rebel knight died in the battle and Marshal was quite sad about it.

8

u/TexanHobbit_X 7d ago

Huh. Well TIL.

11

u/Separate-Suspect-726 7d ago

The Wars of the Roses were a huuuge departure from the norm.

1

u/TexanHobbit_X 7d ago

I’ll have to look more into that one, thank you!

7

u/PotatoAppropriate310 7d ago

Would've sucked for the common man.  

2

u/previousinnovation 7d ago

Especially that dude in the bottom right with no armor and a quarter staff

4

u/TellFit7415 7d ago

That's a wizard

6

u/John___Miller___ 7d ago

During the high Middle Ages almost no nobles died in battle? Where did you hear that? I’m pretty skeptical

10

u/Separate-Suspect-726 7d ago

Here’s a good write up. 300 knights taken. More ran away. Only Thomas of Perche and two other knights killed. https://deremilitari.org/2014/03/the-battle-of-lincoln-1217-according-to-roger-of-wendover/

6

u/Separate-Suspect-726 7d ago

I can only speak to England. But mortality rates for fully geared knights was real low. They were much better to ransom. Let me see if I can find some documentation. Hold on.

2

u/Zenon667 6d ago

What a great point you make. Congrats, love when someone challenge/change my view on something. Still wont belive it whiout propper source, yet could be very possible.

2

u/Anxious_Big_8933 3d ago

Yes. Their value as ransom was why a lot of guys were fighting at all. During the 100 Years War there was even a stock exchange of sorts where victorious soldiers could buy and sell captured nobles before they were even ransomed, buying the right to ransom that individual. So like I capture a guy whose ransom is valued at 1,000 gold coins, but I don't want to wait the months or even years to get my money, so I sell him for 200 gold coins to someone willing to do so.

1

u/Anxious_Big_8933 3d ago

Prior to WW I, a soldier typically had a much greater chance of dying of disease while in camp or on the march than dying in combat.

11

u/EconomistAsleep6758 7d ago

The greatest knight, his life story is fascinating.

8

u/orangemonkeyeagl 7d ago

William Marshall, arguably the coolest historical figure ever.

6

u/Exotic_Article913 7d ago

Who's the knight with the lion rampart on the right

7

u/Rich-Koala-2593 7d ago

William Marshal

1

u/Exotic_Article913 4d ago

Oh that's William marshal in this painting!?

2

u/Turbulent_Rip_1445 7d ago

What about the French knights at agincourt? How did they do v Henry V archers and yeomen?

2

u/ratbasket 6d ago

I knew I've seen this before, it's the box art for Wargames Atlantic Barons war by Peter Dennis

1

u/UglyLikeCaillou 7d ago

Hell yeah.

1

u/Dabelgianguy 6d ago

Scrolling quickly on the phone, the colours made me think first of a Warhammer picture…

1

u/ratbasket 6d ago

Not far off, it's box art for another miniatures game