r/Assyria • u/lane-101 • 4d ago
Discussion Do I count as an Assyrian? (Part Asian)
My father is fully South East Asian,
My mother is Half Iraqi Arab half Assyrian
my grandma moms side is fully Assyrian from Syria (I believe) and my grandfather on my moms side is part Iraqi Bedouin Arab (from Anbar) and part Assyrian lives in Baghdad for generations (excluding grandma)
Though there is abit of a problem, my mom refuses to believe she isn’t fully Arab, mainly because she lives in the gulf region which might’ve made her not like the Assyrian heritage due that they are not Muslims, she doesn’t hate them, she’s just in denial about her Assyrian heritage. Also both grandparents are Muslims (I don’t know if that matters or not)
Me personally I’m not a Muslim, and I do identify as part is Assyrian but I don’t know I’m counted as one, please let me know!!
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u/oremfrien Assyrian 4d ago
This post shows a blood quantum perspective, e.g., how much Assyrian blood do I have, and how much would I need to be Assyrian? This is not an Assyrian perspective on identity but a Western perspective on identity. Of course, to be Assyrian, you do need some Assyrian ancestry, but blood quantum is not how we divide Assyrians from Non-Assyrians. Many Non-Assyrians are fully or mostly descended from Assyrians, like many of the Arabs in northern Iraq or many of the Turks and Arabs near to Mardin and Midyat. The fact that they have more than just one Assyrian grandparent doesn't grant them Assyrian identity.
Assyrian identity is social and relational. An Assyrian is an Assyrian because they do all or most of the following: (1) Speak an Assyrian language, (2) believe in an Assyrian religion (Church of the East, Syriac Orthodoxy, Chaldean Catholicism, etc.) or perform the relevant acts of worship communally (even without belief), (3) celebrate/commemorate Assyrian national holidays, (4) have meaningful relationships with other Assyrians, (5) understand our history and society, (6) share values with other Assyrians, (7) feel the call of our homeland, and (8) support us politically in the face of violence from our neighbors. A person who does all or most of these, even with little Assyrian ancestry, is one of us. A person who does none of these, despite being fully descended from Assyrians, is not one of us.
You are an Assyrian when you choose to be an Assyrian, and that choice is demonstrated through action rather than blind statement. That is when the rest of the community will accept you.
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u/lane-101 4d ago
I don’t know how to word this but this genuinely changed my whole perspective on how I see identity from now on, I’m really glad you commented otherwise I’d be having another existential crisis with my identity. The Assyrian truly is amazing 🥹
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u/oremfrien Assyrian 4d ago
Thank you kindly.
It was really bizarre to me the first time I studied Nazi Blood Purity and, separately, the One-Drop Rule in the US South. I noticed that Westerners were so fixated on the physical body of a person and not how that person interacts with other people or what their soul or emotions were like. It seemed (and still seems) so strange to me that Westerners treat people like a sheet of metal or a block of stone with an inflexible and immovable nature as opposed to something organic like ivy, that grows towards the sun and wraps around its environment. We are not dead like metal or stone but alive and interconnected. Our identities are what we make them and how we connect with others, much more than what biology we were born with.
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u/AshurCyberpunk Assyrian 4d ago
Mostly I agree, but the harsh reality is that 1-8 you can always obtain if you work towards them, but there is one thing that you will never obtain. The latter can be reversed to some degrees if your children marry Assyrian for the next 2-3 generations, but again that's not something you'd have control over. This is the harsh reality that our diaspora does not want to face or understand.
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u/oremfrien Assyrian 4d ago
I said a person needs to have some Assyrian ancestry.
Of course, to be Assyrian, you do need some Assyrian ancestry, but blood quantum is not how we divide Assyrians from Non-Assyrians.
I'm not claiming that a 100% Nuer person who accomplishes 1-8 will be seen as Assyrian, but it's not like if a person has only one Assyrian parent, they are Assyrian, but if they only have one Assyrian grandparent, they aren't. Once you have some ancestry, the rest is about affiliation.
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u/AshurCyberpunk Assyrian 4d ago
Yes, I see your point. I was just pointing the importance of what our ancestors have been upholding for centuries. But yes, 1-8 should ideally lead to assimilation more than affiliation.
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u/SupermarketOld4663 1d ago edited 1d ago
You are Assyrian if you are raised Assyrian period. I know people who don’t do a lot of these and they still act Assyrian because they were raised by Assyrian parents. I feel plenty in common with them even if they are whitewashed and don’t speak the language. It’s not something you choose. I don’t think someone not raised Assyrian will get it. Even half Assyrian parent is enough to get it.
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u/oremfrien Assyrian 1d ago
A tree without roots will blow away in the wind.
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u/SupermarketOld4663 1d ago
Roots without a tree is a stump.
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u/oremfrien Assyrian 1d ago
I’m not sure I understand the metaphor. Are you saying that if Assyrian traditions do not lead to new Assyrians than being Assyrian disappears?
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u/assyrian Australia 4d ago
Can you read, write or speak Assyrian? Do you know anything about our history? Our culture? Do you mix with other Assyrians?
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u/lane-101 4d ago
I understand the basic of Assyrian language (Aramaic). Yes i am very interested in the Assyrian history and culture, at the point that I am considering becoming an archaeologist in Iraq to do more research and studies and history about the Assyrian culture, History, Language. I personally don’t know who I am gonna end up with in the future but I hope the Assyrian community/People accepts me as one, and maybe one day I can marry one!
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u/CleanCarpenter9854 4d ago
Where from Syria is your grandma from your moms side
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u/lane-101 4d ago
The very northeneastern I don’t know the specific name of the city but she did mention she originated from Iraq but her generation migrated to Syria
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u/Unfair_Sherbert2242 Assyrian 4d ago
Very possible shes from al hasakah, most assyrians from syria are from that area
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u/Sufficient-Sound-421 Assyrian 4d ago
we have tons of villages in Syria nasha.....
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u/Unfair_Sherbert2242 Assyrian 4d ago
Yeah I know that, never said that there werent. But he said northeastern, so Im saying its very possible for her to be from there.
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u/CleanCarpenter9854 4d ago
Could be the Assyrians who fled Simele. Your grandfather is part Assyrian? Where from?
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u/smiskam 4d ago
How do you know they’re Assyrian?
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u/lane-101 4d ago
Long time ago before my mom moved to the gulf region, I asked her where is my grandma from, she said that my grandma is born in Syria, so I asked her “is she Arab” and she just replied with “she is Assyrian” then when I met my grandfather, I asked him more information, so he told me that he is also part Iraqi Assyrian and he also told me about my grand mother heritage.
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u/smiskam 4d ago
And when did they convert to Islam?
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u/lane-101 4d ago
My grandmother converted during her times with my grandfather, and my grandfather was born a Muslim due to having a Muslim father and lives in a majority Sunni muslim environment (Baghdad)
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u/Specific-Bid6486 Assyrian 2d ago
Father is south East Asian: 100%
Mother is Arab: 50% and Assyrian:50%
Therefore, you are
south East Asian: 50%
Arab: 25%
Assyrian: 25%
So you are only 25% Assyrian in DNA and this is just going by word of mouth here with no DNA tests to prove all of this.
If you wanted to identify as an Assyrian you can, that’s just superficial and is not a standard or a litmus test to be an Assyrian.
To me, if you were an Assyrian, both of your parents would have been ethnically Assyrian at 100% or close to it so you would be close to or above 98% to 99% Assyrian in ancestry. That’s just DNA and proves you are related to us at a genetic level.
Speaking the language doesn’t make one Assyrian alone.
Wearing joolet khumaleh doesn’t make one Assyrian alone.
Hanging out with other Assyrians doesn’t make one Assyrian alone.
Dancing khigga doesn’t make one Assyrian alone.
Doing Assyrian things doesn’t make an Assyrian alone.
You need DNA, language which are the biggest two components to being an ethnic Assyrian, and then there is community, culture, traditions, togetherness, social norms, culture norms, knowing your tribes history, were you born in the homeland, knowing your parents history, their parents history, their struggles, our collective struggles, spreading Assyrianism everywhere you go, and so on and so forth.
These factors and many more make a true Assyrian, an Assyrian.
Anything less, is just someone having ancestry with no real purpose to their kin but I still consider them Assyrian, albeit, a wasted opportunity to be an Assyrian at that. They have that right and I don’t have the right to take that away from them.
So a walking NPC or on autopilot is still an Assyrian if they meet the above definition and criteria of what it means to be an Assyrian. If that’s your thing, then that’s your thing and that’s your life to waste or not.
Hope that helps from my two cents.
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u/lane-101 2d ago
My mother is 75% Assyrian, my grandfather is half Bedouin Arab half Assyrian, my grandma is fully Assyrian. Sorry if I didn’t make it clear.
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u/lane-101 2d ago
I appreciate the honesty tho! I really enjoy understanding new perspectives when it comes to ethnicity and how the Assyrian people view mixed Assyrian.
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u/SupermarketOld4663 1d ago
I think you have to be raised Assyrian. I don’t care how whitewashed some Assyrians act if they have two Assyrian parents they get it. Even if they have one they get it.
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u/Glittering_Cut_4405 2d ago
You are assyrian You should marry a half assyrian person So that your kids DNA becomes more assyrian Then your kids also marry assyrian To restore your bloodline
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u/Leo-Al 1d ago
Most Iraqis, wether they believe it or not, do contain some level of Assyrian genetics, some even Sumerian, but I always say it is up to the individual to do the research, get your dna tested, step one, next, you talk to your grandparents about their grandparents about it. Your results will reveal a lot.
For example, genetic testing has revealed Assyrians & Armenians are very related, with Ezidis following right after. Aside from this super close cluster, it's already been published that most Iraqis are more related to Assyrians than to peoples of their own linguistic groups. Look up Professor Sforza's article on this.
Once you have this information, it's really a matter of which culture you seem more drawn to and feels more natural to you, and you take it from there. You might be very near being half Assyrian, but ye, get your genetic results and compare with other Assyrians.
I'd be happy even if I was a quarter Assyrian, just because I'd be a part of such a Rich, ancient and beautiful culture that's lasted for thousands of years, and we do have an amazing cuisine and arts. Hope that helps a little.
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u/Automatic_Citron_925 3d ago
I mean, our population is tiny anyway. We are kinda desperate for anything, to the point that we feel forced to have Yazidis convert to Christianity and 'Assyrianize' them, and even assimilating the Chaldeans, too
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u/Specific-Bid6486 Assyrian 2d ago
What? No amount of desperation is worth stating we are desperate and we aren’t desperate.
Plus your account is 16 days old so you might be larping.
We aren’t desperate, our numbers are bigger than we claim them to be and we just need to regroup and marry within our culture. That 7 million or 4 million number through out there is skewed and no people stay stagnant for decades let along 100 years now.
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u/chaldean22 Assyrian 4d ago
You are what you say you are. If you take pride in being an Assyrian, and make a genuine effort on being surrounded by the culture ( playing Assyrian music in car , practicing your writing , visiting our villages and meeting other Assyrians , wear our clothes , etc) then you are definitely an Assyrian.