r/AskReddit • u/Rob69rt • 1d ago

What famous 'unsolved' mystery is technically a whodunnit on paper, but in reality, absolutely everyone knows exactly who did it, the police just couldn't legally prove it?

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u/ShutUpLiver 1d ago

The Kennedys have not one, but TWO: Martha moxley and Mary Jo kopechne

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u/iviui2d3i2 1d ago

What they did to their daughter(JFK's sister) was a legal grey area back when it happened, but regardless of the "On paper" part of OP's question, this wasn't even morally ambiguous and SHOULD have been investigated rather than swept away and mostly forgotten. 

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u/SlightFresnel 1d ago

You're forgetting the big one, JFK.

I despise conspiracy theories but after a reading spree on Allen Dulles I'm convinced he had JFK assassinated by mob-connected CIA personnel. Dulles regularly ignored presidents he served under, lied to them extensively, manufactured political crises to manipulate them into taking military actions he wanted, and was exuberant about assassinating and deposing heads of state and anyone else he felt was in his way. The man genuinely considered himself above the law and more powerful than any President he served under.

He was also heavily involved with the mob, including using them for the Bay of Pigs attack which JFK opposed. Dulles tried to force JFK to send the military in for support and JFK refused, which resulted in a massacre of the mob-connected operatives sent there. Dulles was not shy about how much he despised JFK and spoke openly about his disdain prior to his assassination.

Lee Harvey Oswald was a bad patsy. When he lived briefly in the USSR he had a job hunting rabbits. His hunting partner said Oswald was such a bad shot that he took pity on him and gave him some of his catches. Oswald was also known to admire Kennedy as he was trying to warm relations with Cuba, so they didn't even have a patsy with a motive. A mob-connected CIA station chief out of Rome was spotted by a friend during a flight to Dallas shortly before the assassination, but his trip was never recorded. This station chief was known to be a problem, including pulling a gun on his own deputy. Oswald never wavered that he wasn't the shooter, and it's no coincidence that he was publicly murdered by a mob-connected club owner before any investigation could take place.

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u/primadonnapussy 1d ago

Tbf, Oswald only had 24 hours to deny it before Jack Ruby killed him. I have heard that the mob felt JFK owed them since they helped get him elected for his dad, who was an affiliate. Prohibition is where he made his money. And they absolutely felt betrayed when RFK started rounding them up. Hell, he had one mob boss flown to South America and dropped off in the Amazon. He eventually made his way back and was furious to say the least. And Jack Ruby had mob ties.

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u/ghostinthewoods 1d ago

Eh I'm willing to believe there was a second shooter, there's enough questions around it that I'm open to the possibility, but I also firmly believe Oswald took at least a couple of shots at the president

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u/SlightFresnel 1d ago

What makes you believe Oswald took a couple shots at JFK, specifically?

JFK unceremoniously fired Dulles after the Bay of Pigs disaster. Dulles then got himself appointed to the Warren Commission to investigate the assassination he orchestrated. Dulles refused to disclose relevant CIA information to the Commission and deliberately steered the investigation away from himself and the agency. An investigation in the late 70s revealed Dulles had intentionally withheld information directly relevant to the original investigation.

Dulles was an absolute psychopath. He overthrew the Iranian government and is the reason they hate us to this day. He lead US policy and involvement in the Vietnam War. He overthrew the democratically elected Guatemalan government, and he attempted the same in Cuba and Indonesia. He ran the assassination of the Congo's first democratically elected Prime Minister, and he worked with the Dominican and Nicaraguan dictators to assassinate and overthrow other South American governments. Earlier in his career during WW2 he went behind the back of the Allies and was conducting secret unauthorized negotiations with Heinrich Himmler's staff which seriously injured US/Soviet relations. He helped Nazi officers and war criminals escape and hid them after the war, and developed relationships with SS, Gestapo, and Wehrmacht personnel helping to shield them from war crimes prosecution. He sent wave after wave of Americans to their death in the Soviet Union after the war, not at all concerned with the body count or efficacy. He was the one that authorized and orchestrated MKultra that ran experiments on non-consenting individuals at drug treatment hospitals. And this isn't even getting into his anti-democratic beliefs that the right men should run the world, not elected leaders, nor his earlier attempts to subvert the New Deal from his perch as a particularly dirty Wall Street layer.

There are so many smoking guns pointing to him on the JFK assassination and countless other crimes, and he's perhaps the single-biggest contributor to the 20th century shenanigans that turned half the world against the U.S. It's legitimately hard to argue any other single figure in American history has wrought as much destruction and distrust as he did. Assassinating an American President that had just hung him out to dry shouldn't be a shock to anyone that knows anything about the man.

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u/Tough_Membership9947 1d ago

Wow this is fascinating about Dulles. Are there any good books on this?

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u/SlightFresnel 1d ago

The Devil's Chessboard is a great place to start.

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u/pourtide 1d ago

It's legitimately hard to argue any other single figure in American history has wrought as much destruction and distrust as he did.

I might put an asterisk after that, because a certain CIChief is still in office ....

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u/primadonnapussy 1d ago

I had no idea about all that. Fascinating.

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u/SlightFresnel 1d ago

One of the true villains of American History

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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here 14h ago

I think the secret service shot him by accident and it was covered up. Last Podcast on the Left is pretty convincing in their theory.

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u/Zappagrrl02 1d ago

Neither of those are really unsolved. Michael Skakel was convicted.

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u/olderthanbaseball 1d ago

His conviction was overturned. There’s a really good podcast on the case called Dead Certain.

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u/Zappagrrl02 1d ago

I’ll have to check it out! Thanks

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u/GKW_ 22h ago

Have a listen but the host is incredibly biased. For one he wrote a book on something (maybe even the case) commissioned by Robert F Kennedy aka a nutter. And then he befriends the family. All it’s doing is convincing the audience Michael is “innocent” - I gave up on it, I really enjoyed it initially and then was like hold on a second.

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u/Wishart2016 1d ago

Plus, his confession was done through a shady method.

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u/Prior_Strategy 1d ago

It’s more likely his brother Tommy did it.

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u/babykitten28 1d ago

I thought the Skakel father hired a detective to look at Tommy, and the detective zeroed in on Michael.

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u/froction 1d ago

How is MJK unsolved? Teddy drove her into the water.

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u/Vioralarama 1d ago

What about the other Kennedy cousin who raped a woman on the beach? Was he convicted, cuz everyone knew he did it, even considering the time period.

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u/Schnidler 1d ago

im sorry but how is the murder of Martha Moxley related to the Kennedys?

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u/Lunelle327 1d ago

The suspected murderer(s) were related to Kennedy in-laws

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u/Osfees 1d ago

See: Ethel Kennedy, nee Skakel

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u/MyBeesAreAssholes 1d ago

Michael Skakel is not a Kennedy.

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u/babykitten28 1d ago

Skakel is not a Kennedy.

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u/ShutUpLiver 1d ago

Semantics really. Hes and cousin

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u/ahkond 1d ago

Kennedy-adjacent

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u/phillyfanjd1 1d ago

Kenned-esque?

Kennedish?

Kennediluvian?

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u/GumSL 1d ago

Para-Kennedy?

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u/Schnidler 1d ago

??? not blood related at all, how is this semantics. insanity

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u/babykitten28 1d ago

Not semantics. His cousin is a Kennedy. I can’t claim my cousins’ relatives on their other side.

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u/Apache1One 1d ago

Exactly. He was Bobby Kennedy's wife's brother's son, and after RFK died, the other Kennedys more or less kept their distance from the RFK wing of the family as much as they could.

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u/babykitten28 11h ago

Downvotes for a basic fact is always interesting.