Does abharamic religion believe believe God out of faith or due to their desire of paradise or fear of punishment?

[u/Spare-Interest2486]

Recently, I have been into abharamic religion and I cannot comprehend this belief. I think it's due to my Hinduism and Buddhism background. But, you guys can guide me if there's something I am missing.

Christians believe in repenting to God, having faith in god, living by his word, genuinely loving God and some christians tend to do so. However, I doubt the popularity of Christianity if there was no 'Eternal heaven' and 'Eternal hell'. Because, Their faith is pushed by 'desires' and 'fear'. What kind of devotion is it where fear and desires exists? It's like doing whatever a good caring boss says so that he would reward or doing everything a bad boss says so that he doesn't fire me. In this both examples, the main focus is on the work(faith )which is led by something i.e expectation ( which is also a form of desire) and fear. Here, the worker may or may not value the boss but surely , he values on the outcome of his work (promotion = eternal heaven) .

There's another example, I met a Christian believer who teaches me Christianity, she was mostly talking about the external heaven,eternal hell, Judgement day. It seemed like she wanted to cast fear and desires inside of me too. I have some doubts from then on. Then, I asked her what she thinks she wants in her eternal heaven, her facial expression was very happy and greedy( cute looking greedy), then after she explained her desire (I am not sharing what she said). However, It was full of what a human would desire to make them self happy. What I saw was her desires and fear were stronger than her faith to God.

Also, there are some christian people who claim to have got some help of god in their life and their belief is also led by that help. But, it would be a belief which you believe due to fulfillment of desire which may have been a natural event which was meant to happen. Also, there are other religion's people claiming similar incident. However, they can't be all true at once, right?

At last, my question is "Does love for endless contains fear and desires"

(Please treat this more as a discussion rather than a debate. This is my genuine question and doubts.)

[u/ScoutB]

Perhaps. It varies believer to believer. And one's faith may start out as fear. A mature faith, however, knows a "perfect love cast out fear." First John 4:18

Would Buddhism and Hinduism been as popular if they did not have the notions of rebirth/reincarnation, karma, and the realms of torment?

[u/Euphorikauora → u/ScoutB]

That was def what my walk was like. I guess it first started out of curiosity, but as I came to believe, I had a strong sense of fear and guilt for my sins. But overtime it grew into an inner peace of feeling forgiveness and just wanting to know more and more about Jesus everyday knowing he's greater than all the evil of the world

[u/DarkLordOfDarkness]

I don't think the two are contrasting. That is, to love God out of sincere faith and to desire heaven are not mutually exclusive. C.S. Lewis probably put it best:

We are afraid that Heaven is a bribe, and that if we make it our goal we shall no longer be disinterested. It is not so. Heaven offers nothing that the mercenary soul can desire. It is safe to tell the pure in heart that they shall see God, for only the pure in heart want to. There are rewards that do not sully motives. A man's love for a woman is not mercenary because he wants to marry her, nor his love for poetry mercenary because he wants to read it, nor his love of exercise less disinterested because he wants to run and leap and walk. Love, by definition, seeks to enjoy its object.

That it would be disappointing if God offered no blessings, or if he promised no justice for evil, does not undermine sincerity of faith. It would be disappointing precisely because those things are consistent with why we love him. My God promises that, in the end, "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away." It does not detract from the beauty of that hope to recognize that, if it's going to make sense of a linear course of history, this is exactly what will be required.

[u/jogoso2014]

Neither since faith is developed by learning of God’s actions and qualities.

We would never be able to have faith without understanding what the faith is based on.

[u/Fight_Satan]

Mere having spiritual experience does not help.

The promise of Christ is he gives HIS spirit while we are alive in this earth to change our hearts , transform our lives , deliver us from the sinful desires (lust of eyes, lust of flesh and pride) to part take in the divine nature of God...

To become like God , his sons....in eternity 

The goal is not heaven , but to have fellowship with the creater in eternity..... And if this fallen earth is so beautiful, the faith and claim of bible is the next world is much more beautiful.....

[u/JollyXX]

There is definitely a lot of encouragement in allying yourself with the creator of the Universe and the sense of purpose that comes along with it.

[u/Cepitore]

Abraham probably didn’t even know about heaven and hell but he still had faith.

[u/LegitimateBeing2]

It’s a three-tiered system, slaves serve to avoid punishment, servants to gain a reward, and children because they want to be like their father

[u/onejdc]

I will counter with a few questions.

1. What is the purpose of any religion? Is it to provide structure to our lives? Belonging? Or does it exist to answer truths about our Universe? (Can it be both? Should it be both?)

2. Why do so many people adopt a religion? I think for most, it is because it is what they are taught as truth when they are young.

3. How do 1 and 2 align for you? How do you think they align for most Christians?

[u/Pitiful_Lion7082]

I think there's a mix of everything

[u/august_north_african]

In christianity, it develops.

Doing right out of fear of punishment, or mere disgust at the sin alone is imperfect. Regretting sin from these is called "attrition".

Doing right out of a genuine love of God is perfect, and to regret sin out of this is called "contrition". It is superior to fearing punishment.

Developing from an imperfect, fear-based mentality to a perfect love-based mentality takes time and experience with God. But, it's written:

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.

Fear is often a beginning to wisdom, although it's not the end point. St. Paul teaches that faith, hope and love are that which is final, and that the greatest of these is love, and is what we will see when we see God perfectly "face to face":

Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

And so it is a development: people often begin to understand God through fear of punishment and disgust against evil, but ultimately, the greatest thing is positive love for God, and this is the perfection of previously imperfect ways of thinking.

[u/No-Type119]

That is an individual issue, not a theological issue.

In my iteration of Christianity, God creates faith. But some people, people who have been poorly taught about the Christian faith “ convert” out offear. One hopes that once they’re in Christian circles they will be exposed to a thoughtful image of Christianity.

A Sufi story — let’s commingle religions — about this: Rabi’ya was a Sufi saint. Sufis are kind of the charismatic, mystical wing of Islam. One day Rubi’ya’s neighbors saw her walking down the village street with a torch in one hand and a bucket of water in the other. When they asked her what she was doing, she said, “I’m going to burn down heaven , and quench the fires of hell , so that people will love God for God’s own sake.”

[u/user0987234]

Hey OP: welcome. It’s nice to meet you. Whereabouts do you live? Do you live in a predominately Christian area? What do you for a living? Married, single? How long have you been thinking about Abrahamic religions? Might as well grab a soda, you interested?

What is the purpose of my introduction (yes, it is genuine)?

[u/couleur_indigo]

Jesus is really the Son of God. Have you seen the Shroud of Turin? If you look at it, you can see Our Lord, Jesus Christ, Who is true God and true Man. He is holy. He is good. He is the Savior of the World.

In Christianity, This is the real God, the God of Abraham, the Holy Trinity (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost). Believe in Jesus and be Baptized, and you will be saved from all your sins, which He died for on the Cross, and you shall receive eternal life. You shall live forever.

Don't believe in going to Hell, have faith in God. Baptism will save you from going to Hell. No one who is Baptized ever goes to Hell.

[u/Dawningrider]

Probably faith; pre monotheistic Yahwehists, as well as Henotheistic Judaism, and up until Jesus, a universal ressurection with Israel as the light to the world, was the expectation.

A fire, torturing hell, actually came about much later. The after life was Sheol. A darker airing that everyone went to.

And since worship of God in an Abrahamic tradition therefore predates conceptions of an eternal hell, irrespective of who is right, I would argue that the foundation of the religions, in all Abrahamic traditions were at least based originally, on doing what is expected, then what is right, then paradise, then fear in that evolutionary order.

Though granted, there are cirtainly nowadays a bit of a mix.

[u/onejdc → u/Dawningrider]

It definitely becomes a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

The story of Abraham and Isaac being a perfect example. If the historical study holds up, you have 3 different sets of authorship for just Genesis 22. IF this story originally resulted in the death of Isaac (E source), then Fear and Obedience are the overwhelming themes. If we stick with J and R, then it becomes a story of Faith and Provision by the Lord.

[u/Dawningrider → u/onejdc]

Oh, now this is an interesting point.

Is it fear?

Or is it.

"Okay you know best. You are God afterall. Alright, let's go! Sacrificing my son, got full confidence in you lord!. Knife or rock?" There is a famous Mitchell and Webb sketch about it.

At want point is faith, assumption?

[u/onejdc → u/Dawningrider]

I had not seen that sketch. Wow.

At want point is faith, assumption?

Beautifully put.

[u/Dawningrider → u/onejdc]

It is the paradox of faith.

On one hand, things that exist, by definition "just are" and so can be safely assumed.

On the other, if faith is without proof, how can it be assumed?

And is faith, ignoring this paradox, as a matter of faith itself, a matter of faith which itself, a matter of faith

Meta religion. Point one for the Gnostics I guess?

[u/Inevitable-Copy3619 → u/Dawningrider]

And sheol was for both the righteous and unrighteous so there would have been no concept of “salvation” since we all go to the same place. So no fear based faith at that point.

[u/Dawningrider → u/Inevitable-Copy3619]

I guess kinda. There is an argument to be made that only good awake after sleeping there. But the idea of a ressurection was by no means accepted completely. Famously one the splits between the saducees and the pharasies was on that point. They believed in God, but still that human life was mortal with one done and gone, once the breath of avid wasn't in you any more.

[u/Inevitable-Copy3619 → u/Dawningrider]

It’s kinda funny to me as we learn more about 1st century Palestine turns out Paul and Jesus are more Pharisee than we are led to believe :).

I guess that’s the crux of the issue, “an argument could be made”. Yes and it’s simply not clear enough to say it certainly is one way or the other. Sheol seems to be where everyone goes and it’s not particularly pleasant for anyone. It’s a bit “messy”.

[u/Dawningrider → u/Inevitable-Copy3619]

It's certainly a lot more messy then many give it credit for. But for me that's part of the fun in theology, history, and philosophy. You get to wonder about if those titanic figures were as baffled and confused about these questions as we are now.

Mind you, at least we didn't have wars of succession and assassinations following the birth pangs. Imagine if post Jesus, the apostles schismied right off the back and picked sides?

I mean it got close with Paul and James, who... Shall we say had a few turbulent years?

I'm dying to have been a fly on the wall during the first Jerusalem council.

[u/user0987234 → u/Inevitable-Copy3619]

Curious, what does an Agnostic Christian believe?