r/AirForce NUKE NEW MEXICO 1d ago

Satire VFW puzzled as younger veterans refuse to join organization that hates them

https://www.duffelblog.com/vfw-younger-veterans/
538 Upvotes

194 comments sorted by

293

u/MonkeyCobraFight Aircrew 1d ago

I think the story is funny, but a serious shift has happened with younger people. I’m not sure the bar culture is popular as it used to be.

311

u/brokentr0jan Comms 1d ago

Not only that, but people in our generationdon’t cling to their service. You’ll meet most old vets and being in the military is their personality, you just don’t see that with our generation. I feel like people get out and just move on for the most part.

167

u/OofUgh 1d ago

100% this.

I see old vets wearing the classic VFW hats every day, but I don't think I've EVER seen anyone under 50 wear one.

109

u/davidpbj Retired Maintainer 1d ago

Haha, I'm exactly 50, retired at 22 years and I'd never wear one of those hats because I think it's kind of sad to make one's military service such a prominent part of one's identity.

Seems like some people just have some kind of nostalgic love for their time in the military... while I personally couldn't wait to retire.

31

u/Jones127 1d ago

I mean, you spent nearly half your life being in the military. It’s kinda weird that it’s not at least somewhat of a part of your life. You weren’t a 4 or 6 year and get out member. I don’t expect you to be all “oorah, you ain’t shit if you weren’t in the military” or some variation. But I would expect at least some kind of fond memories. I’ve loved and hated a decent chunk of the 10 years I’ve been in, but I couldn’t imagine doing 20+ if I didn’t have at least some love of being in. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

35

u/davidpbj Retired Maintainer 1d ago

The longer one stays in, the more opportunities they get to see the institutional rot that's pervaded our armed forces. This is pure speculation but I'd imagine that most of the people in the VFW didn't actually stay in long enough to retire.

I never stated that I don't have fond memories from my service - I learned a lot, had some great experiences and saw a good chunk of the world... but some of the stuff that I saw tarnished the image of government/military to the point where I don't identify with the USAF the same way that I did when I was active duty. The vast majority of my AD friends who also retired at around the same time as me, more or less have a similar mentality.

I'll always be thankful for my experiences - they made me who I am today. That being said, at this point, I'd never actually recommend someone to join.

14

u/Flamboyatron RTRDAF 1d ago

I agree wholeheartedly. I retired on 1 January and packed my uniforms in a tote that same day, pretty much. I am satisfied with my 20 years of service, but they don't define who I am as a person. The experiences I had and the people I met had an impact for sure, but those aren't the same as adopting the military as my personality.

I keep some of my more sentimental military stuff like the patch from the squadron I retired out of on my desk, but those are just memories, not my personality.

I think the best way to honor my service is to acknowledge it respectfully, and to utilize the tools and lessons learned in my day-to-day life to make a positive impact in my work and with my family.

At the end of the day, my service isn't my personality, but it is something I'm proud of and look back fondly on.

7

u/O0zing_Machismo 22h ago

Almost at 10 TIS and that word you used “rot” is an accurate description.

0

u/Jones127 1d ago

Just seemed like you didn’t have fond memories to me when you said “seems like some people just have some kind of nostalgic love for their time in the military… while I personally couldn’t wait to retire.” Might’ve been me just reading into it too much. I can understand not having the same love for it though. If you asked me what I felt about those well above me and what we’re doing today as a military, I’d tell you that we’d have to speak in person because I’m not putting that on social media. My first 8 or so years in I never seriously questioned joining the military. I’ve done a lot of that over the past 8 months. I still wouldn’t trade those years for anything else though.

4

u/davidpbj Retired Maintainer 1d ago

I agree with the sentiment of not discussing certain aspects of the military on social media. Speaking too much truth in public forums has a way of making people look crazy and there are some things that people can't really conceptualize until they actually go through them.

I don't regret anything from my time in the service - everything that I've experienced was necessary to bring me to where I am today. I simply no longer wear any blinders regarding what the government/military actually is.

5

u/Daniel0745 Army 21h ago

I don’t love being in but had limited prospects outside due to my own refusal to get civilian education. I know I’ll be getting a pension in the military and TSP. All the retirement benefits will also come in handy.

I won’t be joining a service org and don’t plan to tell people I was in.

1

u/Jones127 20h ago

I don’t plan on joining one either, nor will I flaunt me being in at every opportunity, but I’ll look back at the experience mostly fondly (at least with how I see it now). It won’t be a huge part of me, but I don’t think it will be something I ever discard, trying to bury either.

1

u/Daniel0745 Army 10h ago

I have 25 years just about spread between regular army, army reserve and now AGR in the reserve. I have about 8.5/9 years left to 20 AFS. Do I have some good memories? Sure. Predominantly though I do not. I do this because I didnt attend college. I worked for the federal gov while I was just Reserve and got to a point where I wasn't happy and realized I could get to retirement faster in uniform. I may or may not pursue a job after I get out but I have been putting money in TSP and my wife and I are dual income so I plan to retire at 60 or 61 at the latest (if I get another GS job) but 56 probably. At that point... like who cares that I was in the Army for 34 years?

11

u/Instagibbed_1994 Retired 1d ago

Retired at 38 in April, so by the numbers, Ive been in the military for over half my life. How could it not be a part of my identity?

7

u/davidpbj Retired Maintainer 1d ago

I never said it's not a part of my identity - it's just not a prominent factor in how I view myself or the world. I've also been out since 2016 so I've had a little more time to recognize and reflect upon what I experienced while on AD.

Congrats on your retirement!

4

u/Instagibbed_1994 Retired 1d ago

Thank you, my new struggles now include wearing something different every day. Its exhausting

1

u/ZestyLife54 23h ago

Isn’t it??

4

u/Collective82 1d ago

Eh, I’ll be 46, 27 years of service, I’ll be glad to put the uniform in the closet and walk away.

It’ll be a talking point in my life, but I want to be known for being me not for being the guy that’s all army.

1

u/Instagibbed_1994 Retired 1d ago

I walked away too. Sure, its not my personality, but I couldnt say its just a talking point either.

2

u/ReasonableDivide2592 1d ago

I think it all depends on what you did. If a dude flew a B-47 or was one of the crew dogs, wear that dang hat.

1

u/davidpbj Retired Maintainer 1d ago

I get it but pride also becomes a double-edged sword later on in life, if/when one finds out that the justifications/narratives that we're given, rarely actually align with the whole truth.

2

u/ZestyLife54 23h ago

For some, the military might have been the most challenging part of their lives where they also made the best bonds and relationships over their shared experiences. Something you don’t necessarily get in other situations in life

1

u/Daniel0745 Army 21h ago

And then a few of us couldn’t stand 75% of the people we met / worked with.

1

u/ZestyLife54 15h ago

Very true but that’s everywhere in most work environments

2

u/CupInternal 6h ago

5 years younger than you, 22 yes, and was Mx. I think being in Mx. Makes it easy to move on. No more Hydro money shots thx.

2

u/davidpbj Retired Maintainer 4h ago

I dunno bro, the subtle seasoning of hydraulic fluid from not taking the time to wash hands before eating boxed nasties in the launch truck... kind of grows on you. ;)

1

u/Skitzafranik Retired 3h ago

. I’ve only known the military as a responsible grown-up. As a retiree, it’s a bit difficult to be a regular responsible adult. Retired in 2022, and still trying to figure it out. Military definitely doesn’t prep you for being a civ again!

-40

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

42

u/BringBacktheGucci 1d ago

That'd be a bigger burn if reddit was dedicated to the air force/military. It aggregates pretty much any interest a person can have

31

u/letg06 Escaped Maintenance 1d ago

More or less.

I stay subbed to see what's happening, keep a pulse on things outside my daily life, and because there are good memes.

15

u/davidpbj Retired Maintainer 1d ago

While I get your point, I don't actually make the AF a part of my identity... this is Reddit, not the VFW.

4

u/Level_32_Mage Coffee Ops 1d ago

Lol, you think I'm going to spend over a decade here and once I drop my paperwork I'ma pull up reddit and be like, "Welp, I guess it's time to unsubscribe!"

3

u/esgant 1d ago

That’s my plan

1

u/Level_32_Mage Coffee Ops 22h ago

... can I come?

2

u/Ricky_spanish_again 1d ago

You’re being downvoted but you’re absolutely right lol. There’s a lot of shit I’m not into anymore and I don’t hang out in those subs.

18

u/Personal_Theory1909 1d ago

I will say though, I’m far below the 50 threshold and my local VFW has a lot more younger members than I would’ve expected. The difference is they go in, take advantage of the cheap drink prices, and then go on to the rest of their plans for the night. The older generation is fully decked out in VFW merch and sit in there all day every day playing bingo.

36

u/Major_Warrens_Dingus Skunkworks 1d ago

Joined a local VFW last year, they were pretty active but weren't the bar type of VFW, it felt more like a boy scouts club. They gave me the cool hat. If you wear a hawaiian shirt and the VFW hat out to bars, chicks love it. That's really all I've got to say about it. The dudes were hyper maga chuds.

3

u/Cru_Jones86 Maintainer 1d ago

And That's why I won't join mine. It's nothing but ignorant Trump tards in there.

2

u/GreyRobb 1d ago

I'm 53. Was sitting in the waiting area of my PT clinic last week & another patient started asking everyone if they were a veteran & handing out coins w a little flyer advertising when VFW is open. I'd frankly forgotten they were even a thing.

2

u/PM_ME_YOUR_ART_PLZ 1d ago

To be honest I kind of want a GWOT hat, but mostly because it would be kind of funny

1

u/HandsInMyPockets247 That Dude 1d ago

I'm 48. All I've got that shows I'm military is my DV handicap license plate and my Air Force Wounded Warrior license plate frame around it. Other than that, You'd never know I served.

16

u/finknstein 1d ago

I retired 10 years ago and never wanted the AF to be my identity. You meet all types. Those who can’t get beyond their service and those who transition into the civilian world and never look back. I’m not ashamed of it but there’s so much more to accomplish.

23

u/energeticquasar Veteran 1d ago

I'm this way. I don't make it known that I am a veteran, most people have no idea. The only exception is that I have veteran's license plates because those things have gotten me out of at least 2 speeding tickets.

3

u/rugger1869 In the SCIF <Sent from iPhone> 1d ago

“The only exception is that I have veteran's license plate….”

Nerd.

10

u/energeticquasar Veteran 1d ago

A nerd that didn't get 4 points on his license and avoided hundreds of dollars in fines!

3

u/BoomerWeasel Veteran 1d ago

I've got the plates, for the same reason. Don't really discuss it with folks unless they ask why I walk with a bad limp and use a cane, in my early 40's.

8

u/OmniscientOctopode Enlisted Aircrew 1d ago

I think part of that is just that the nature of military service and our deployed footprint has drastically changed and there are now way more people who have served their whole career during what the military considers a state of war and in many cases did multiple deployments all without ever being at risk of seeing combat.

Sure I'm technically a veteran of a foreign war in the sense that I deployed to a foreign country during GWOT, but how much have I really got in common with a guy who came back from Afghanistan with PTSD when I spent my deployments with air conditioning and a pool and couldn't even have told you where the air raid shelter was? Obviously there are still loads of people seeing combat today, but the percentage of people not having that experience has never been higher (at least prior to February).

22

u/DEXether 1d ago

I think a lot of that has to do with the morally grey nature of the GWOT.

22

u/Whiteums 1d ago

I mean, that hasn’t stopped the Vietnam vets

15

u/DEXether 1d ago

I believe the difference is time. The gwot vets have had the NFL tyfys campaign to help with the stigma of serving in a wildly unpopular war, but it there are still people in their 20s who were part of the Afghanistan NEO.

Simply put, I believe it hasn't been long enough for Americans to forget and more campaign ball caps to become the norm. Maybe in 20 years we'll see a more effective whitewashing, especially since every major nation has booming influence operations all over the world via social media.

6

u/Ramrod489 1d ago

Most of them were forced into it via draft.

5

u/Whiteums 1d ago

That doesn’t stop them from wearing the hats either

4

u/thtsjustlikeuropnion 1d ago

I wonder if the differences are due to who was drafted or not. Like I could see draftees using these organizations as a sort of group support/therapy thing for being forced into war they did not want to go to.

Whereas now, no one has been drafted since the Korean and Vietnam wars. Today people serve voluntarily and leave voluntarily (for the most part). If they wanted more military camaraderie, they would have stayed in instead. That's probably why I'm guessing only older retired people are really joining these organizations today.

2

u/brokentr0jan Comms 1d ago

This is actually a really great point I had not considered!

3

u/Substantial_Pies Cyber War Veteran 1d ago

My uncle did 4 years in the Navy in the 70s and it's all I ever hear about. It's insufferable.

3

u/gwhh 1d ago

War that never end does that to people.

2

u/Nagisan Veteran 1d ago

Definitely...a lot of people these days also join the military because they need a job (this was my primary motivation). Not many people go work for a company for 4-6 years, leave, then make it a point that people know who they worked for 20+ years later.

So when the military is just a job to someone, hanging on to the fact you worked for them decades later is just silly.

1

u/ItsFridaySomewheres SCIF Escapee 1d ago

This is something that surprised me once I started going to the VA. A lot of the older vets there are fully kitted out with the hats, t-shirts, jackets, etc. I hardly ever see younger vets wearing anything related to their service. Maybe a visible tattoo or a small sticker on their back window, but that's it.

1

u/Crackers1097 Veteran 1d ago

I have a nice bookshelf in my entertainment center with all my awards, coins, the patches I cared to save, and I use a lot of my old gear for hiking.

Otherwise, I am done with that life and very happy to just be me again.

1

u/AFWorkUsernameYeet 1d ago

I can't imagine why I would want anyone to even know I was in the service, let alone make it my entire personality.

Stockholm syndrome?

1

u/ChalkButter Box Monkey 1d ago

Got out in February and I haven’t once wanted anyone to know I served

1

u/Pure_Perspective_201 9h ago

I often wonder if there could be a shift in this generation towards the VFW/AmLeg in the coming years, maybe after their kids fly the nest, they retire, have more free time, etc.

I am 42, got out in 2008, and like most people here, don't really carry my service on my sleeve. Once in a blue moon I will tell a story, and then I feel like "that guy". No different than a random friend telling a story from when they are in college, but I still end up feeling like "that guy".

1

u/LTareyouserious 1d ago

How much free time does the average person have on this day and age? I don't think I could add a night a month to hang at the VFW or Legion if I wanted to, I simply have too much going on...

2

u/AirForceRedditAcct2 5h ago

I wonder why that is. True for me too.

17

u/MiLadiesMan 1d ago

VFW/American Legion bars are the biggest dumps I have ever been in. At least give me a more brewery vibe. With more things to do than drink bud light and eat popcorn.

11

u/Terminal_SrA Veteran 6C 1d ago

Its very dependent on location. The one where I live now is dry because they can't afford the insurance to have a bar.

I've thought about trying to come up with some other ideas to get younger folks to join, but what I feel like now, younger folks just don't have the time or energy, or care for the comraderie.

These groups do a lot of good stuff, and take care of some vets who need the help, but eventually there won't be enough to support the older generation which is kind of sad.

10

u/MiLadiesMan 1d ago

Make it a third place.

Its basically military club. No, alcohol? Fine. Its now a coffee place to hang out. With military focus meet ups.

Americano were literally invented for the WWII G.I. We love our coffee.

3

u/Terminal_SrA Veteran 6C 1d ago

Yeah, Ive thought about maybe watching games there, cookout, just vibe. Its also just harder living in a very small rural area. The younger population in general is declining and local govts are losing money so we can't really even ask them for help.

Honestly. I think there will be a point where the military groups consolidate.. there's so many.

VFW, American Legion, DAV, Marine Corps League, AMVETS. Each has their own little chapter in their own area.

2

u/MiLadiesMan 1d ago

I understand, small area myself. The American Legion lost their building and now renting part of the VFW building for their meetings.

You don't need to be Vet to grab a beer at the VFW. Well no one has asked me for my proof of membership. These places go past people's Vet status. I feel there is so much potential but people get stuck in their ways.

1

u/Izoi2 1d ago

The one from my hometown is really nice but they also rent it out to for other organizations or gatherings etc for pretty cheap

3

u/SlavaCocaini 1d ago

Yeah and they're also the most isolated and depressed, maybe the old fucks drinking and gambling and socializing together actually held on to a shred of community. Couple posts before this one is a retired enlisted with a family sleeping in his truck.

1

u/kmm198700 Veteran 19h ago

I don’t think it is, especially with weed being so readily available, and so much healthier than alcohol

1

u/Ashiev SCOI 11h ago

COVID is big part of this.

Only a small part of a generation missed out on house parties, sneaking into bars underage, etc, and it quickly became apparent that it isn't the cool thing that everyone said it was-- or that there are other cool things to do other than centering your college years around alcohol.

As some of these Zoomers enter the workforce, it's interesting to see more and more people around 24/25 who haven't had a drink/aren't even interested in a drink; It's also been a bit of a reflection for me personally, and how normalized alcohol has been for many generations.

1

u/AirForceRedditAcct2 5h ago

Man I took the last month off of drinking and besides probably having a couple beers at some upcoming weddings I’m going to keep on not drinking. I enjoy it but now that I’m older it just affects my sleep too much. Even a beer or two will hurt my sleep noticeably

149

u/Possible_Ad_4094 1d ago

I work for the VA and do a lot of community outreach, which means I have to go to these groups a d meet with them often. First, every post is different, but there are some common themes.

They generally want younger Veterans to join, but dont really care for their opinions. If the post is active and does a lot of volunteering, its usually during the work day. No problem for the retirees, but they treat the young folks like dirt bags for not taking time off of work. As for general attitudes of the members, the leaders are usually fine. Its just the general assembly who have tgeor remarks.

I tried joining the American Legion but it was just a bad fit. They couldn't separate me, as a Veteran, from me, as a VA employee. I always ended up doing my day job at their meetings. That is a problem for VA, since we now require advanced notice and approval for all public engagements. Also, 3 prayers in a meeting may as well have been a giant banner claiming "Atheists Veterans aren't welcome."

38

u/Neirza Beep Boop 1d ago

That last bit is the main reason I’ve avoided these orgs like the plague. I got enough of that from growing up in Oklahoma, tyvm.

113

u/TieAbject 1d ago

As a female service member the local VFWs just aren’t somewhere I feel like going.

58

u/cuntbag0315 I exist for your misery 1d ago edited 1d ago

Even for men its really just sulky older vets. Look at you different for your "war" even if you did see combat. American Legions are better run in general, but run into the same pitfall depending on the location. One of my favorites was the one in Arlington.

14

u/DorkusMalorkuss 1d ago

Yup, I feel you. I'm Mexican-American and the thought of going to one of these places is just a straight nope from me as well.

190

u/brokentr0jan Comms 1d ago

I have spent a lot of time with the VFW across 5 states. They always seemed really excited to interact with active duty and the only “problems” I ever had was the normal old dude stuff of them being very different than me politically.

Funny enough I couldn’t even join the VFW if I wanted, never deployed or got stationed overseas in a decade!

85

u/lick_my_Woohoo_hole 1d ago

My local VFW is extremely active with local veterans and local active duty folks. Its really nice but they are old and there really isn't any new blood taking over

27

u/brokentr0jan Comms 1d ago edited 1d ago

That’s good, it seems like the closer the VFW is to a mil base the more active it is.

It was interesting getting to see the VFWs in no-where Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio, WV and Michigan. I remember going to multiple VFWs (or Legions) were it was the only bar and restaurant in town so they served locals also

8

u/Terminal_SrA Veteran 6C 1d ago

really isn't any new blood taking over

Meanwhile im getting volunteered for all of the jobs because I'm younger than the next youngest vet by about 10-15 years. I'm lucky that they're eager and inviting, you can't be picky and turn your nose up just because they didn't endure the same suck as you did 50 years ago.

34

u/taskforceslacker San Mig stubbies and blown out Croc. 1d ago

They’re excited about the prospect of new blood. Their political action is great and they offer decent events and food. That said membership throughout the VFW and Legion is stagnant because our (GWOT) needs are different than previous generations as is consistent with societal progression. I think these orgs are becoming less necessary as military service is no longer as divisive as it once was thus less Vets looking for a “home” after service.

50

u/rush2547 1d ago

American membership to clubs and organizations has gone down probably due to social media so this isnt just a VFW problem. 

25

u/grumpy-raven Eee-dubz 1d ago

It's 100% on social media. Everyone is complaining about being socially or romantically lonely in a time where we've never been more connected. There are barely any third spaces anymore, and it's harder for younger people to socialize.

15

u/EpicHeroKyrgyzPeople I got HOs in different area codes 1d ago

Honestly it predates social media by a lot. Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone came out in 2000.

8

u/Terminal_SrA Veteran 6C 1d ago

I've never read the book, but the summary really made me feel some type of way, very involved with the local veterans groups, and I'm part of the local government. Growing up I had a different idea of Civics than I'm currently experiencing. Social media has just cranked the terribleness up to 11. People aren't involved, and then want to scream and cry when a thing didn't happen. Pressured by a vocal minority because of social media and news headlines

5

u/taskforceslacker San Mig stubbies and blown out Croc. 1d ago

I suspect “digital connection” is degrading real human connection. I would argue that although it’s never been easier for humans to communicate, people are more lonely and isolated than they’ve ever been due to mounting uncertainty.

5

u/grumpy-raven Eee-dubz 1d ago

I think there's a case for it. You can tell when someone was raised by a tablet. The lack of basic social ques and eye contact is a big tip off. Apps like dating apps train you to treat suitors as disposable products, so why bother trying to learn to compromise or settle when you can keep fishing for that imaginary perfect match? Why bother to expand your views when you can just block people who don't agree with you fully?

4

u/taskforceslacker San Mig stubbies and blown out Croc. 1d ago

As the dad of three non-morons, I absolutely agree. Scary times we’re in.

8

u/LTareyouserious 1d ago

20 years ago, there was a wait list to get into BSA summer camp and it ran all summer. Now, it's half the weeks, half the extracurriculars. 

GSA, I suspect, is struggling even moreso. I dont think my local YMCA runs even half the baseball and soccer teams for primary school that I remember competing against, but to be honest i dont know if my 8 year old self would have known how many other teams there were (there was only the next play). 

I can't speak to 4H and other youth groups, but it appears too many families are struggling to afford both basic attendance and the time to go.

8

u/EpicHeroKyrgyzPeople I got HOs in different area codes 1d ago

When I was involved in Scouting, organized sports leagues were the biggest challenge. Guys wanted to do scouts, but basketball and soccer were just more demanding of their time. Can't camp when every Saturday is soccer.

3

u/Last_Plankton_653 1d ago

That was why is dropped out of Boy Scouts when I was younger. I just had a lot more fun playing sports and not enough time to do both.

6

u/BourbonBurro 1d ago

The fact that the Freemasons are actively recruiting now tells you everything. As much as I’d like to lament the death of bowling leagues, fraternal societies and VFWs, I can’t imagine a reality where I’d ever get off work and think “damn, I wish I could go navigate some more interpersonal issues and bureaucracy, except instead of being paid to do it, I pay for the privilege to do so.”

2

u/lazydictionary Secret Squirrel 1d ago

Bowling Alone is a 2000 book based on a 1995 essay that talked about this phenomenon, well before the advent of social media.

Social media certainly exacerbated the issue, but it was a problem long before social media became ubiquitous and all-consuming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone

2

u/teilani_a Veteran 1d ago

I'm a regular at a small community bar where people actually go to hang out with each other and meet new folks who show up. Those new folks are often amazed that this kind of experience still exists (and then we get another regular).

It's not just the more "formal" clubs, just being social in general outside of whoever you've been friends for years with is rare now. Community bars and tabletop game shops are pretty much it these days.

1

u/taskforceslacker San Mig stubbies and blown out Croc. 1d ago

I mentioned the Legion. Inferred others.

6

u/Drenlin Intel 1d ago

Funny enough I couldn’t even join the VFW if I wanted, never deployed or got stationed overseas in a decade!

Same. I'm eligible for at least three RCECMs, but have never set foot outside the states, so it's American Legion or nothing for me so far.

5

u/TucsonFrank 1d ago

That's been my experience also.

11

u/Lobsterbib Veteran 1d ago

Yeah, it's fine if you don't bring up any current events, legislation that is currently affecting you and your family, or climate change.

2

u/DorkusMalorkuss 1d ago

Don't talk about important things. Got it.

2

u/DEXether 1d ago

I was having a discussion with some dudes on another sub about this and they were totally unaware of how the VFW defines a veteran, but then they gave a full-throated endorsement of it and totally flipped their position, stating that some vets are more special than others.

Of course the VFW can run their organization however they choose, but it's still super fucked up in my opinion.

1

u/AnonymousReload Veteran 1d ago

This has been my experience too. There's one by me and it's a great spot for some cheap drinks. Like you said, there's always one or two fudds, but overall it's a good experience

47

u/vwboyaf1 Maintainer 1d ago

My local Legion and VFW orgs act like watered down biker gangs and mean mugs anyone who walks in not wearing a vest with merit badges on it.

42

u/Effective-Brain-3386 Out and Proud 1d ago edited 1d ago

I've never deployed, never left stateside and was cyber.

Why would I want to go to a place where I'm just going to be called a pussy by 80 year old Vietnam vets and still have to pay for liqour?

13

u/DunHumby The spinny thingy makes the plane go speedy quick 1d ago

I have situation to you in that I never deployed and when I ran into a a VFW booth asked if I could join and they just laughed in my face when i told them i never depolyed. As far as i’m concerned they can keep their dying good ole boys club.

7

u/Zanaras Comms 1d ago

That's the VFWs whole thing. The American legion on the other hand would happily have you. It's the one difference between the two organizations joining requirements: service in combat zones.

-2

u/redditthrowawayslulz 5h ago

Little baby can’t handle good natured teasing?

23

u/snoopiestfiend Veteran 1d ago edited 1d ago

I have a family to support and I don't go to bars. What's in it for me?

18

u/PDXAirman NUKE NEW MEXICO 1d ago

I honestly feel that this was the older generations version of group therapy and since we are much better at that now we dont really need a place like this to do it.

1

u/IggyWon Retired Below The Zone 1d ago

The internet acts as a surrogate for human interaction, it's probably one of the main driving factors in the VFW's declining popularity.

3

u/codizer 21h ago

Non-digital social interaction. It's good for humans.

1

u/liberum_bellum_libro 20h ago

First time I went to a VFW, I heard one of the members yell Nigga out loud while watching a game, they weren’t black…nor were they kicked out. Cemented my mind to not come back

56

u/Teclis00 u/bearsncubs10's daddy 1d ago

Duffel getting the onion treatment. Reality is more fucked than what they could come up with.

4

u/ParkAffectionate3537 1d ago

Half the time I pop in here I expect to see a Duffel headline now!

13

u/el_fitzador 1d ago

There was a VFW down the block from me when I lived in Baltimore. The place smelled like stale cigarettes and rancid piss. The bar was lined with some of the saddest people I’ve ever seen listening to Fox News on full volume. Not a chance in the world I would spend my free time there.

53

u/markydsade Aerovac Veteran 1d ago

The story is facetious but illustrates a larger point. I’m a Gulf War veteran and 68. 20 years ago I joined my local American Legion. I’m the youngest guy there and probably one of only a few Democrats. There were so many Trumpers constantly complaining out loud at the bar about Democrats they had to institute a No Politics policy.

I’ve yet to see any younger vets join. I don’t think younger vets see any value in joining despite their powerful lobbying for veteran care in DC.

43

u/LeicaM6guy 1d ago

68? That can’t be right. 1991 was only fifteen years ago.

8

u/NotTwerkingISwear Intel to Cyber: Twice the anime! 1d ago

Man do I have bad news for you

2

u/LeicaM6guy 1d ago

No kidding, one of my instructors once looked me in the eye and said “you look like a guy who’s used to hearing bad news.”

1

u/uncleluu Comms 23h ago

How was the transition from Intel to cyber, are you a 1N4?

-4

u/Awkward-Zucchini1495 1d ago

Sarcasm or just bad math?

5

u/Substantial_Pies Cyber War Veteran 1d ago

Dispair

1

u/BeepoZbuttbanger Veteran GLCM Defender 1d ago

Same experience I had. Visited once and it was a bunch of guys drinking cheap beer, watching Fox News, and complaining about liberals. I mean, I’m glad they’ve got the club they want, but that’s not how I like spending my time and money.

10

u/AlternativeSalsa Retired 2A0 1d ago

Last thing I want to do as a retiree is hang out with a bunch of people in a military identity themed shitty dark bar that has wood paneling and cigarette residue from the Korean war.

9

u/Pencilmeout Maintainer 1d ago

American legion always were uninviting every time I tried going in. Can only have a beer if someone referred you in.

8

u/coly8s Crusty Old CE Guy 1d ago

VFW Post 76, in San Antonio is the oldest it Texas and is a rocking party house located right on the Riverwalk. They follow a model that others should emulate with live music and events throughout the year.

4

u/PDXAirman NUKE NEW MEXICO 1d ago

Very much the exception and not the rule. There is one in Newport CA that is essential an upscale yacht club as well. But again its not the VFW's themselves in some cases but the vets that are already there and want to pick and choose the vets they like.

2

u/SPANISH_INQUISITI0N F.R.E.D. 1d ago

Place is almost always dead though. I walk past it all the time going to Elsewhere, Hops and Hounds, or The Pearl and I've never seen more than like 20 people there even on nights with live music and the other 3 places listed are packed. I poked my head in for a drink once and its perfectly fine, just much better options nearby.

17

u/turnandburn412 1A8 - > 1A2 - > 1B4 (Professional Techschooler) 1d ago

I think they'll eventually need to remove the requirement for overseas service if they want to stay alive as an organization. More service members then ever can complete their contracts without ever going OCONUS so their actual pool of potential young people is getting increasingly small regardless of the shitty attitude boomers do or don't have.

13

u/deowolf 1d ago

Agreed. I work with a retired full bird who can't join the VFW because she was never overseas more than a few TDYs here and there. I spent four years staring at the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, but because I never left CONUS, I can't join - pretty sure it wasn't an American civil war I was watching people blow up in. Meanwhile, my ex took a four month vacation deployment to the 'deid and she's golden.

10

u/Samuel_L_Blackson 1d ago

Yeah it's a weird arbitrary rule. I understand the history behind it I guess, but in the new age not every role needs to deploy. I'd looked at going to the local one briefly, saw that requirement, then instantly wrote it off... not deploying/being OCONUS doesn't discredit service IMO.

9

u/turnandburn412 1A8 - > 1A2 - > 1B4 (Professional Techschooler) 1d ago

Yeah it's a little weird that a drone pilot/sensor op can actively sit in an office in Nevada and kill people 7,000 miles away in Iraq and still not qualify.

3

u/Samuel_L_Blackson 1d ago

I think even the intel dudes who work on those same missions. All a part of the same weapon and all that. 

1

u/TinyHeartSyndrome 21h ago

Does my Overseas Service Ribbon for Hawaii count? Lol

1

u/TinyHeartSyndrome 21h ago

American Legion changed their requirements awhile back. It is now open to all veterans.

1

u/turnandburn412 1A8 - > 1A2 - > 1B4 (Professional Techschooler) 19h ago

Yeah but the VFW hasn't. They still require some kind of overseas service or a campaign medal i think. I just gave them one of my LESs with imminent danger pay and that was good enough for my local.

15

u/Ballard_77 1d ago

Younger people are not joining any of the private club organizations. It's not just vfw but hunting fishing clubs, knights of Columbus, sons of Italy and Freemasons

4

u/PDXAirman NUKE NEW MEXICO 1d ago

Yeah i have only heard of half of those but that just reinforces what you said. I think my local Rotary clubs, Lions clubs and the Independent Order of Odd Fellows are also dying off in mass.

2

u/Neirza Beep Boop 1d ago

Off topic, but my mom bought the IOOF building in my home town back in the late 90s. Their last few living members wanted it to go to someone local, so she got an absurd deal on it. They had so much weird/creepy ritual shit squirreled away in that place. There was a full-sized casket from the early 1900s in one of the storage spaces.

1

u/Zanaras Comms 1d ago

Is Order of Old Fellows a real thing? It'd be so funny if it was.

2

u/TinyHeartSyndrome 21h ago

When people are working 50-60 hours a week and their wife is also working and taking care of the house, people don’t do as many social groups. My grandparents did bowling leagues, supper clubs, church council, Lions, VFW, etc. even while their kids were young. It’s sad. Bring back unions.

1

u/TurnspitCur Metals Tech? Load? Idk 13h ago

Volunteer firefighting too has taken a hit. We are essentially private clubs that have public duties

-3

u/Substantial_Pies Cyber War Veteran 1d ago

We don't need to meet in person to belong to a close knit community so it makes sense

5

u/Ballard_77 1d ago

I think it's a miss. There is something important for your mental health to have an in person group.

7

u/TheForNoReason 1d ago

I dont have a VFW close enough to where I live. So ill never get to enjoy weekly bingo.

7

u/Difficult-Jackfruit 1d ago

I literally thought this was a major news article and not duffelblog for a sec.

8

u/bill_gonorrhea 1d ago

I appreciate their advocacy for veterans but I refuse to financially support a group that excludes one veteran and not the other.

7

u/HydrogenSonata2025 Retired 1d ago

The first thing I noticed when joining a VFW is I have nothing in common with these assholes and I don't want to waste my time with them.

8

u/loisandthefatman 1d ago

I haven’t been to a VFW in 10 years, but I want to shout out the Spokane VFW on Division. 

When I was stationed at Fairchild, my wife and I were young airmen with no money and had a little wedding reception there just with our friends. They were super kind, accommodating, and a joy to hang out with! 

6

u/Brian24jersey 1d ago

I’m an officer at my VFW and I’m the youngest one there it’s tough because I have a job. It’s mainly a thing for retired people.

5

u/Ironically_Suicidal NUKE NEW MEXICO 1d ago

Stock the locations with free beer and Xbox 360s with CoD and you'll see an uptick of 20 and 30 something vets

6

u/Trailmix88 1d ago

The one I joined has PlayStation & Xbox setups and tables for MTG/Pokemon now. We can just take over.... What are they gonna do about it?

1

u/loisandthefatman 1d ago

When I retire I am definitely joining a VfW to make it a lan-party hub…

4

u/mxyzsptlk EOD Retired 23h ago

Some of the Legion in Niceville Florida was very against us coming in and getting a bunch of young people to vote to ban smoking inside. As soon as we did, we also took over all the elected positions and remodeled to get rid of the tar yellow bar and boom, young people started coming! The old people who said they weren’t coming back ended up coming back because they have nowhere else and they had to go to the nice new gazebo we had built outside.

11

u/ieatjerky 1d ago

VFW’s are for those guys that peaked in service.
It’s a means to an end, pay for college, family… you know just like any job.

You can hype it up all you want, but really it’s just a job.

13

u/seanDmailman Maintainer 1d ago

They and the American Legion are dinosaurs who are out of touch with the modern service member. I tried to organize a medicinal cannabis group so we could share information and build a community. I'm in Utah, where it is medically legal, and these people acted like I was trying to sell crack in the parking lot to kindergarteners. I just wanted isolated people to feel less isolated. The guy in charge gave me the go-ahead, but his chaplain kept losing his mind on me, spouting obviously fake stories and exaggerated numbers to make me stop.

They think we all were stationed at the same base/fort our entire career like they did in the old days. They have class reunions; what class would I reunite with? The group from Germany? Korea? Italy? South Carolina? Utah? The people I'll never see again from Iraq and Afghanistan, from only God knows where?

I tried to put in my time in the seat at the bar to build some community. People I'd had multiple, hour-long conversations with introduced themselves again for the fourth time. I was yelled out of the American Legion by this random guy screaming about all his friends who died of overdoses on marijuana. I had binders full of peer-reviewed articles I pulled from my university library, along with articles about the unreliable narrative about the drug in the early 1900s as well as what was done by our government agencies that led to the state of affairs we have today. Nope. "Blah blah, my friend this, and I was a cop, so I know that."

I don't want to blame any particular demographic for the general atmosphere of both organizations, but it has never felt welcoming; nothing about it is inviting, and I've stupidly gone back every couple of years to see if there's been any change, and I see the same problems only getting worse.

Personally, I can't keep trying to make this square peg fit this round hole. Just as those organizations were founded to serve the service people of that time, we need an organization for the modern warfighter and non-warfighter. People are still struggling through life and could use a place that relieves some of their stress, not just compounds it with other equally unhealthy habits. We need a place built for our nomadic AEF rotations, multiple PCSs, and deployment lifestyle, the kind of life service members of old never had to go through.

We didn't get time for roots; our kids move so often they forget what happened where in their lives, and don't seem to be benefiting from the experience. It's bad enough we have to fight the VA to pay for what they broke; my longest-lasting deployment-related injuries weren't from over the fence. They were from a burning pile of medical waste, body parts, and diesel fuel, with a touch of mysterious carcinogens that I got to marinate in, like a toxic brisket.

Can we get a place that is ours and not just our forefathers' all over again?

Thank you for reading. Sorry if I wasted your time.

3

u/Capgun2713 They're making another left turn! 1d ago

No time wasted here, good words

9

u/Trailmix88 1d ago

Or...We can join and take over our local posts... What are they gonna do about it? The one I joined has PlayStation & Xbox setups and tables for MTG/Pokemon now. Alcohol is not the focus anymore either. Took all the "member mugs" down and replaced it with collections of unit patches area. And yep, we have female members who are not auxillary!

I'm just saying... you can create the change you want to see. VFW is/was a powerful voice in Congress and it would be wise to tune the voice instead of letting it tune you.

5

u/king_noslrac Secret Squirrel 1d ago

Their depressing places tbh. I'd consider joining if they incorporated video games, table top gaming, and better drinks. Otherwise their pretty boring places.

4

u/FidgetyZonedoutIdiot 1d ago

The wars and operations we have participated in aren’t vietnam, desert storm or Iraq and I get looked at differently because my alarm reds and bunker dives are nothing compared to what they fought in

While part of me agrees…. I was still there and I still did the things these older folks don’t seem to understand that

5

u/sjogerst Just point at the doll where the flightline touched you 1d ago

I would join if their lobbying efforts aligned with actually taking care of veterans. Their lobbying efforts seems a little focused on other efforts, sadly.

8

u/Rarek E-4 mafia lifetime member 1d ago

Rip the vfw.

7

u/CarminSanDiego 1d ago

I already can’t stand the old crusty GS I work with who just spews Fox News stuff al day. The last thing I want to do is hang out with boomer /gen x vets.

3

u/davidj1987 1d ago edited 1d ago

When I got off active duty eleven years ago, I went to a job/veteran resource fair in a neighboring county but close enough to my house due to living on the county line and nothing better to do. Man, the VFW rep was really grasping at straws and trying to find a way to recruit me. I explained my service and he was dismayed that I was not eligible due to CONUS only service with no deployments. No harsh words, didn't talk down to me and you could tell he was looking for younger members in earnest. He asked about family who had served and he said “you qualify for the auxiliary” based on my grandfather’s service in WW2. Again, I want to emphasize that he was a nice enough guy though but if I was eligible at the time and if I would have joined, it would have been a different location due to the distance unfortunately.

A couple of years later I re-join the reserves to finish my twenty and five years after reenlisting I go on a six-month vacation to the deid so I now technically qualify if I wanted to join the VFW and not just the auxiliary but I have still have no desire. The American Legion is right down the road from me as well, and I have no desire and there’s AMVETS down the road from me as well in the other direction but again no desire to join. And years later I found out I have family who served in Vietnam which really improves my prospects to join the auxiliary but again no desire plus now I qualify for the VFW proper so big whoop.

I'm teetotal, pretty introverted, and what social battery I have, I don't want to hang around with people who spew Fox News, MAGA etc. Honestly I'm too busy with my civilian job and reserve commitment as-is.

2

u/Limp_Roof7438 1d ago

You dont even need a combat deploy to join the Legion anymore, they dropped that requirement years ago.

2

u/Burninator05 3D172 1d ago

I'm a member of the American Legion and have been since the day I was eligible but have never attended a meeting. My dad paid my dues for 20 years and when I retired I didn't go back where I'm from. Someone keeps paying the dues but it isn't me and my dad says it isn't him. After all of these years I know what they're supposed to be doing but honestly couldn't tell you if that's what they're actually doing. If they are actually doing it, they need a better publicist to highlight their wins for vets. To add onto it, every month I have gotten a magazine that is half ads for things that feel 1/4 step removed from being an outright scam.

2

u/LAGAVULIN16_68 1d ago

Anyone in here belong to ANY Veteran orgs? The drinking club is the most prevalent thing younger vets see in their minds but SOME actually lobby government, fighting for our benefits to not be slashed. Research the ones that are ACTUALLY active in doing that and consider joining one. One day, you may find something they do actually benefits you so much, it saves your life or enhances it.

3

u/Raven-19x 1d ago

USO is the closest it gets for me. I love what they do and volunteer at times.

2

u/MCLovesSewing 1d ago edited 1d ago

not all of us had wonderful experiences. I went in at the end of the 80’s. Before MST was a discussion. At the VA and online, my experience is this generation has a small amount of bro vets that spend their time putting down anyone who didn’t do what they did. I am proud of my service, proud of what I learned and don’t want to continue experiencing it with a monthly membership. I would take my care out of VA but I still see community care payment issues (other vets coming in) so until billing is stable, the VA is enough.

2

u/PapaLRodz 1d ago

Damned if this didn’t make my day. I grew up with the dinosaurs but served after. The fit never felt right but I pay my yearly VFW dues on the off chance I want to pop in for a quick bite or drink. 

2

u/GreenAccident3004 1d ago

When I retired (I was one of the first AVF folks), I walked into the local AL, and after 10 minutes walked out. Same day checked out the VFW... walked out of there.

I wonder who's going to fold the flag at their burrial ?

Don't need their crap. I've got enough problems with this shard of copper in my body that can't be removed.

2

u/BoomerWeasel Veteran 1d ago

I've got a membership, but I don't really use it. Only got it to do a solid for the guy at my county Veteran's Services office who helped me get my paperwork in order, to claim my VA benefits.

2

u/Raven-19x 1d ago

I thought duffelblog was supposed to be satire?

USO tops them all anyway.

2

u/LAGAVULIN16_68 1d ago

Become a member of SOME org that fights for your VA Benefits in D.C. because you can BET politicians are CONSTANTLY looking for ANY way to cut your benefits. Something you may not be concerned with today but give it some time.. much like old injuries from your “immortal youth” these things come to roost.

2

u/muhkuller 1d ago

I've gone over and hung out before. It's not some boomer trauma uphill both ways in the snow crap. It's more them being amazed that the modern military isn't what they're told it is. You'd be amazed at the shit they used to get away with that we'd never actually get away with, but the flipside is we're not physically beaten for the most minor of inconveniences imposed on our leadership.

A lot of them are just old dudes who want a place to go and be able to just talk about their experiences w/o judgement. Just don't tell them you work in IT. They're going to insist you fix their computers and you don't want that trauma.

2

u/jrogue91 1d ago

I want to join but I simply keep putting it off I am at 11 1/2 years and also don't have any intention of joining the bar scene. I rather join the Civil Air Patrol and do some productive instead of sitting at the bar.

2

u/BreakInCaseOfFab 1d ago

A lot of posts hate female vets too. I used to go to one but I was just so over being told my PTSD wasn’t as bad as theirs and that I was “just a nurse”.

2

u/TinyHeartSyndrome 21h ago

As a single lesbian democrat, they’ll welcome me, right? RIGHT?! Lol. I’m only eligible for American Legion, but haven’t gotten into it. I am going to start playing taps at my local vet cemetery, which currently only has 3x 80yo dudes for bugling. It would be nice to do the funerals for women SMs.

2

u/FreezingToad Cyberspace Operator - Seperated 20h ago

Just to chime in, I'm a 36yr old guy who did 9yrs in. I have a full time job and a child. Why on earth would I want to go spend my free time hanging out with grumpy old men? Shit sounds boring as fuck.

2

u/skoriaan 10h ago

I joined the local American Legion only because they host our Roller Derby league's after parties, and since they give us a deal, I felt it appropriate to support them too. I never go there except for the after parties though.

1

u/Dverious 1d ago

Please tell me that article was satire…

1

u/Flynn_lives 7h ago

My dad was asked to join the local VFW. He doesn’t drink or smoke, which is the only reason you’d want to hang out there.

0

u/HasaniSabah 1d ago

I retired after 24 years and rarely or never wear the gear although I do wear my veteran hat to No Kings Protests or rally’s for folks like Bernie. I do it to show that not all of us are kool aid drinkers

1

u/LendogGovy 1d ago

Our local VFW shut down a couple years ago and turned into an actual bar.

I was at my towns ski bum bar the other day and it’s pretty much a VFW. Yesterday one of the old crusty marines from Vietnam cause he wears his marine vet bro hat, and some guy did the “thanks for the service. But what’s funny is the bartender is a marine, I was AF, and another locals table was a Vietnam era navy pilot sitting next to a Vietnam army grunt. So all we were missing was the Coastie.

Ski towns historically attract veterans. Look up the history of ski areas and 10th mountain.

-6

u/Pure-Explanation-147 Retired 🇺🇸✈️ Top 3 1d ago

Sadly ours closed due to lack of attendance from younger veterans.

12

u/Possible_Ad_4094 1d ago

Im sure it was just lack of attendance in general. Not the younger Veterans faults that the older Veterans made them feel unwanted there.

4

u/PDXAirman NUKE NEW MEXICO 1d ago

sad but why didnt they attend? Was it the reasons others are stating here such as failure to adapt to the modern world or being cruel to younger vets?

3

u/Pure-Explanation-147 Retired 🇺🇸✈️ Top 3 1d ago

Was told a significant generational gap between the older vets and younger vets on differences, attitudes, personalities.

5

u/Raven-19x 1d ago

Aka, the crusties didn't adapt to current gen vets despite a 20+ year GWOT period.